How good the Mig-29 UPG/SMT against the F-16 Blk 50/52+ ??

[Bratva]

See, aerodynamically as well as thrust.. it is MiG-29. So far WVR, it is a knife fight after the merge and luck plays a bigger part. Some guys just got lucky and others not.

PAF F-16 pilots already faired very well against high thrust and aerodynamically advance EU fighter and F-15.

wel bhai ok aap bhi meri tarah muhib Ul Watan hain

but the point is even in WVR context IAF will have upper hand deu to other factors also biggest of them bieng numbers + latest techs like IRIS T , EW suites among other backups on indian Migs which is not the case for PAF

which intrun pips the scale in favour of IAF pilots by margin of 16/20 and 20 bieng IAF pilots

I don't know where you guys heard PAF F-16 doesn't have EW suites. Do you think PAF that dumb they would accept F-16 without EW suites? That's the suit in F-16 and also the jamming pod that we receive seprately

[url="https://defence.pk/threads/sga2012-integrated-defence-electronic-warfare-system-for-pakistan-air-force.161318/"]SGA2012:Integrated Defence Electronic Warfare System for Pakistan Air Force[/URL]

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

And by upper hand I doesn't mean IAF aren't skillful. For your own understanding. 19/20 wali situation. 20 being PAF pilot

Because 1 muslim=10 hindus.

 

[Bratva]

Because 1 muslim=10 hindus.

Ou mama apna kaam kar,, Yaha technical discussion ho rahi hai,, Jahilo ki zarurat nahi.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Ou mama apna kaam kar,, Yaha technical discussion ho rahi hai,, Jahilo ki zarurat nahi.

Then what are you doing here?

 

[trident2010]

I don't know where you guys heard PAF F-16 doesn't have EW suites. Do you think PAF that dumb they would accept F-16 without EW suites? That's the suit in F-16 and also the jamming pod that we receive seprately

SGA2012:Integrated Defence Electronic Warfare System for Pakistan Air Force

I am sure PAF F-16s have EW suites but the point is are they as good as the EW suites of USAF F-16s? Indian Mig-29UPG has state of the art Russian, Israeli and French EW suits, avionics and weapons package which is not the case with PAF F-16s. I am not saying the they are obsolete but they are not as state of the art as F-16s of USAF or IsAF.

Considering these facts Mig-29UPG may have upper hand wrt PAF F-16s.

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

@MiG-21

My friend you are making up fairy tales for your imaginary friends. I have solid combat history to talk about, you have your fairtales.

Russian Migs are pieces of flying metal which are yet to score their first teen. While teens have knocked them out in EVERY engagement.

Pakistani F-16 Block52+ are technologically the most advanced flying machines in S.Asia which are fully networked with our AESA AEWCS and our EW ranges.

They are more advanced than your MKIs. Fitting a pack of Israeli avionics into a Russian flying truck doesn't hide the fact that its STILL Russian. Red Flag exposed the Indian propaganda hype around MKIs. These flying trucks were roaming like lost cows with everyone else engaged in the fight.

If you are so sure of the Migs, send them over and see if they survive AMRAAMs. We'll have a few more enemy tailpipes to hang at Karachi PAF meuseum.

well entertained bro.
btw : it reminds me of " gaiy ki duum bay-wajah nahi ghalib , kuchh tou haey jiski pardah-daari haey "....

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

@MiG-21

My friend you are making up fairy tales for your imaginary friends. I have solid combat history to talk about, you have your fairtales.

Russian Migs are pieces of flying metal which are yet to score their first teen. While teens have knocked them out in EVERY engagement.

Pakistani F-16 Block52+ are technologically the most advanced flying machines in S.Asia which are fully networked with our AESA AEWCS and our EW ranges.

They are more advanced than your MKIs. Fitting a pack of Israeli avionics into a Russian flying truck doesn't hide the fact that its STILL Russian. Red Flag exposed the Indian propaganda hype around MKIs. These flying trucks were roaming like lost cows with everyone else engaged in the fight.

If you are so sure of the Migs, send them over and see if they survive AMRAAMs. We'll have a few more enemy tailpipes to hang at Karachi PAF meuseum.

Excellent analysis. You have considered all the facts in your analysis. By the way, we don't require su30mkis to defeat you since it took us only 13 days to crush you in 1971, so this time we will crush you in 7 days.

 

[Kompromat]

Excellent analysis. You have considered all the facts in your analysis. By the way, we don't require su30mkis to defeat you since it took us only 13 days to crush you in 1971, so this time we will crush you in 7 days.

Oh yes don't keep us waiting for too long. Be careful what you wish for...we can hand you the same meal back just 'evenly'.

Now back to the topic!

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Oh yes don't keep us waiting for too long. Be careful what you wish for...we can hand you the same meal back just 'evenly'.

Now back to the topic!

I am on topic. This whole discussion is not required. As you said, we already have solid military history using which results of future conflicts can be easily predicted. So since 93000 of your soldiers surrendered last time, it proves that our soldiers are better than yours and all pakistani soldiers will surrender in the next war within 7 days.

No need of F16 vs mig 29. India wins. Be happy.

 

[Bratva]

I am sure PAF F-16s have EW suites but the point is are they as good as the EW suites of USAF F-16s? Indian Mig-29UPG has state of the art Russian, Israeli and French EW suits, avionics and weapons package which is not the case with PAF F-16s. I am not saying the they are obsolete but they are not as state of the art as F-16s of USAF or IsAF.

Considering these facts Mig-29UPG may have upper hand wrt PAF F-16s.

Once again lot of assumptions and suppositions and second guessing without proving otherwise PAF F-16 EW is less capable than UPG EW.

If that's the case, then I could have supposed PAF pilots simulated kills against EF and F-15's. So we could easily kick your UPG but meh....

 

[trident2010]

Once again lot of assumptions and suppositions and second guessing without proving otherwise PAF F-16 EW is less capable than UPG EW.

If that's the case, then I could have supposed PAF pilots simulated kills against EF and F-15's. So we could easily kick your UPG but meh....

Well it is true that the exact information regarding the PAF F-16 EW is not available but we are looking at what is available to PAF which as we all know not the best. Due to the restrictions put up by west and money problem they mostly stuck with Chinese hardware and other not so upto date equipments. On the contrary, IAF is exposed to the best available in market and they choose only the best. We can only derive the conclusions from what we can see and therefore I still think Mig-29UPG has upper hand.

 

[rockstarIN]

PAF F-16 pilots already faired very well against high thrust and aerodynamically advance EU fighter and F-15.


SGA2012:Integrated Defence Electronic Warfare System for Pakistan Air Force

So is Indian Bisons against USAF F-15,F-16s, does not mean that it is a better fighter.

 

[Abingdonboy]

What I'm trying to say, It all boils down to Pilot skills. Similar technology is employed on both planes and nobody can say MIG-29 UPG can win a fight due to better technology.

I'm so sick of this argument from you guys, it really is your last refuge. It used to be India had rubbish equipment- that was the narrative coming out of you guys, but now India is getting world class equipment your only defence is "it counts for nought as we are better trained". Even though there is little actual evidence to back up this so-called "superiority" of Pakistani pilots/soldiers over their Indian counterparts. Pakistanis "unofficially shot down a EFT"? Well IAF WVR skills were praised by all Western AFs they've trained with. Sometimes it borders on a Martial race theory with you guys, yes you've stopped short of this here but some of your compatriots seem to genuinely believe 1 Pakistani= X Indians. Maybe this helps you guys rationalise your conventional military inferiority, I really don't know. But I really wouldn't be all that sold on superior PAF pilot skills over the IAF pilots- the IAF is inducting some of the most advanced simulators and training aides around these days and training across the board is not only improving but being refined and there is still a lot of importance placed on WVR as well as BVR.

If you could give me a comparative figure for annual PAF F-16 fighter jock flying hours this would be much more useful as IAF pilot's go through about 220-250 with the MKI boys maybe touching 275-290 (some have seen 300).

 

[Basel]

Apart from the fact that the Migs had this capability before and now get the Topsight helmet with the upgrade, you have to keep in mind that the helmet is only one part and an agile missile with a high FoV seeker is the other part to have such an advantage. That exactly is the problem, since PAF only has Aim 9M and not the 9X, that was developed to counter the advantages of the R73. That's why most other F16 operators also have added Python, Assram or IRIS-T missiles, while PAF is limited to the 9M. That leaves the Mig not only with a higher maneuverability, but also with the better SR missile and a clear advantage with HMS in dogfights.

Pakistan also have these for JF-17s and they can be mounted on F-16, how will your super duper Migs will hanldle them when used with JHMCS?

A-Darter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@Aeronaut one question did PAF got RIS-T missiles from Germany, for which PAF was interested in very much for JF-17s and F-16s??

 

[Abingdonboy]

Pakistan also have these for JF-17s and they can be mounted on F-16, how will your super duper Migs will hanldle them when used with JHMCS?

A-Darter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@Aeronaut one question did PAF got RIS-T missiles from Germany, for which PAF was interested in very much for JF-17s and F-16s??

You're not going to integrate the JHMCS onto the JF-17, that much is a certainty.