How good the Mig-29 UPG/SMT against the F-16 Blk 50/52+ ??

[Basel]

You're not going to integrate the JHMCS onto the JF-17, that much is a certainty.

JF-17s will not have US JHMCS but mix of Chinese and western ones which will allow use of both type of systems/missiles.

 

[Dazzler]

blk 52s are way ahead in EW, the 211 series is used in C-130 Compass call for sole purpose i.e. deceptive and heavy jamming. SMTs will go blind against it.

 

[MilSpec]

@sandy_3126

There is nothing left to talk about. Talk to me when the Russian Migs score their first teen 'kill'. Then we will have solid grounds to discuss.

Migs are an epic failure with scam weapons. No Russian AIR TO AIR missile has EVER shot down a 'teen' on ANY air craft.

Fulcrum hasn't performed they way they were designed against the teen series in actual combat. It may never get a chance to do so either. But as people with better understanding of combat systems, should we completely go by purely historical statistics.

With head to head comparison of two systems,"In my opinion" from the requirements of Sead/Dead/CAS/Interdiction/Air Superiority, F16 comes out on top as a multirole system...

Similarly from flight characteristics of Mig29, I feel that Mig 29 will come out top on a2a engagements, performance of aim9 to r73 has been skewed towards f16/f15 combo. The reason being on most occasions russian jets fielded by crumbling nations have been heavily outmatched in numbers and superior tactics of mostly the largest airforce in the world. Mig 29's have been primary air superiority fighter for RuAF, RN IAF and IN, two noteworthy military's in the world suggesting significant confidence in the platform.

I personally do not have any good Idea of R73 specifically, But I have discussed the R27 and RVV AE's performance with a source that I would place pretty high on the pecking order and the results (albiet on a different platform) do indicate the reasons for IAF trusting these to munitions on the highest scale....

I do concede that argument is based on inherent qualities of the craft and not real combat performance. And thus I rest my case, I guess we will never really know how good the Mig29 was; as I dont see any other conflict where f16's might be thrown in mix with Mig29's, (Note all of the mig29 casualties in Iraq and syria were from F15's/Panavia Tornado and not F16's, )....

 

[Bratva]

I'm so sick of this argument from you guys, it really is your last refuge. It used to be India had rubbish equipment- that was the narrative coming out of you guys, but now India is getting world class equipment your only defence is "it counts for nought as we are better trained". Even though there is little actual evidence to back up this so-called "superiority" of Pakistani pilots/soldiers over their Indian counterparts. Pakistanis "unofficially shot down a EFT"? Well IAF WVR skills were praised by all Western AFs they've trained with. Sometimes it borders on a Martial race theory with you guys, yes you've stopped short of this here but some of your compatriots seem to genuinely believe 1 Pakistani= X Indians. Maybe this helps you guys rationalise your conventional military inferiority, I really don't know. But I really wouldn't be all that sold on superior PAF pilot skills over the IAF pilots- the IAF is inducting some of the most advanced simulators and training aides around these days and training across the board is not only improving but being refined and there is still a lot of importance placed on WVR as well as BVR.

If you could give me a comparative figure for annual PAF F-16 fighter jock flying hours this would be much more useful as IAF pilot's go through about 220-250 with the MKI boys maybe touching 275-290 (some have seen 300).

What;s your rant got to do with topic at hand which is certainly not about SU-30?? If you are frustrated at your wife for not doing what you wished, then why show this frustration here?

If you want to see PAF F-16 pilots flying hours, check f-16.net

 

[Abingdonboy]

blk 52s are way ahead in EW, the 211 series is used in C-130 Compass call for sole purpose i.e. deceptive and heavy jamming. SMTs will go blind against it.

Really? You know the MIG-29UPGs have ELT-568 AESA jammers?

What;s your rant got to do with topic at hand which is certainly not about SU-30?? If you are frustrated at your wife for not doing what you wished, then why show this frustration here?

If you want to see PAF F-16 pilots flying hours, check f-16.net

My wife??? Hate to burst your bubble but I am entirely single (well sort of, it's complicated, hey, what's this about. Stop dragging my personal life into this lol!)

 

[Darth Vader]

Oh yes don't keep us waiting for too long. Be careful what you wish for...we can hand you the same meal back just 'evenly'.

Now back to the topic!

My Friend i have seen You in these kind of discussion with alot Of Users
1 advice to you almost 90% these KEYBOARD fighters haven't seen these birds in real life =)) so no need to start a discussion with them

 

[Kompromat]

My Friend i have seen You in these kind of discussion with alot Of Users
1 advice to you almost 90% these KEYBOARD fighters haven't seen these birds in real life =)) so no need to start a discussion with them

Someone has to do the hard yards to make warmongers use their brains.

@sandy_3126

Mere bhai, combat systems like fighter air crafts are designed for 'winning wars' not for 'air shows' or 'wikipedia fan fests'.

Migs haven't under performed, they 'haven't performed at all'.

It doesn't matter what the on paper specs are. What matters is what those specs are going to do to the invading enemy.

As far as 'actual combat record' is concerned Migs are an 'utter failure'. However they do look awesome in Wikipedia specs and in air shows.

 

[Kompromat]

This is for those who are questioning F-16s EW capabilities. Pakistan was the first customer for this particular EW suite.

____________

Corporation (NYSE: ITT) has been awarded a $49 million Foreign Military Sales contract to provide a
pod-variant version of the Advanced Integrated
Defensive Electronic Warfare System (AIDEWS) for the Pakistani Air Force F-16s. The new pod will use a variant of the digital radio frequency
memory (DRFM) -based electronic-
countermeasure system based on the ALQ-211 Electronic Warfare (EW) jamming system employed with several types of rotary wing
aircraft and the F-16 fighter. The system provides fighter pilots with situational awareness and
protection against radar-based threats, including
modern surface-to-air and air-to-air weapon
systems.

@Basel

We don't have IRISTs. We will have the 5th gen darter along with HMD/S , work is in progress on Thunders.

 

[ptldM3]

@sandy_3126

There is nothing left to talk about. Talk to me when the Russian Migs score their first teen 'kill'. Then we will have solid grounds to discuss.

F-14s have been shot down by migs, even an F-18 was shot down by an old mig, other then that F-4s, F-5s, A-4s ect have all been shot down by the hundreds. You told me to talk, I talked, now you can walk.

Migs are an epic failure with scam weapons. No Russian AIR TO AIR missile has EVER shot down a 'teen' on ANY air craft.

You do know that those mig scam weapons had made their way into the highly touted JF-17 fighter which seems to be gods gift to the world. The hart and sole of the JF-17, the radar was closely modeled from the zhuk.

Go to the Hindukush mountains with a metal detector, you may still find the pieces from the dozens of your junk our F-16s shot down from the air.

Or have a chat with Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich, whom our F-16s shot down. He ended up becoming your vice president later.

You know the difference between a ground attack[B/] aircraft and a fighter? Pakistanis bragging about shooting down some ground attack and utility aircraft is truly sad.

Whatever you say, none of your Junk has EVER shot down a teen Aircraft....and thats a fact that still stands. You can suck it up and babble as much as you want.

That has already been debunked, which means you are talking nonsense. I am still waiting for you to prove your wild claims about the mig-29 having poor situational awareness as well as ECM, especially when those F-16s that you are comparing the migs to have 1980s computers, which you claim to be 20 years ahead. Doing the math that would mean the Mi-29 has 1960s avionics? I didn't know AESA, HMC, TVC, ect existed back then.

 

[dbc]

, (Note all of the mig29 casualties in Iraq and syria were from F15's/Panavia Tornado and not F16's, )....

... and the reason for that is USAF politics. They did not want congress to know that a much cheaper bird (F-16) could kill Migs as well as the F-15. The F-16's were deliberately kept away from air-to-air engagements in Iraq.

 

[帅的一匹]

My anwser is, J10B coud easily deal with them all.

With J10B'S RCS smaller than 0.5 sqm, they are sitting ducks.

 

[MilSpec]

@Aeronaut, How many F16 kills against Mig29, going by statistical numbers... (it might be one kill which is still disputed as a strela fatricide)?

... and the reason for that is USAF politics. They did not want congress to know that a much cheaper bird (F-16) could kill Migs as well as the F-15. The F-16's were deliberately kept away from air-to-air engagements in Iraq.

That makes sense....

 

[Kompromat]

@ptldM3

More conspiracy theories.

FIRST, I want to see a solid proof of when did a Mig-29 shoot down an F/A-18 Hornet?

 

[ptldM3]

My anwser is, J10B coud easily deal with them all.

With J10B'S RCS smaller than 0.5 sqm, they are sitting ducks.

Seriously shut up. No RCS figures of the J-10 exist, and if you believe the 0.5 figure then you are a gullible fool. The J-10 is full of 90 degree angles, there is no better way to ensure a bigger RCS then 90 degree angles. Even if we are generous and say that is only a clean frontal RCS, we still have to count external weapons and pylons, which when added negate that RCS.

Also weapons systems are more important, if RCS was all that mattered then the F-15 and SU-27 should have been shot down with ease by small aircraft which is not the case considering neither aircraft have lost in air to air combat.

 

[帅的一匹]

Next time J10B will hold excercise with PAF's F16BLOCK52 if USA allows, we will see the result.