How good the Mig-29 UPG/SMT against the F-16 Blk 50/52+ ??

[trident2010]

LIST OF UPGRADES for IAF Mig-29UPG

• The upgrade comprises: increased range and payload, new glass cockpit, digital fly-by-wire control system, new avionics, improved radar, KOLS infrared search and track (IRST) and an in-flight refuelling probe. The radar will be the Phazotron Zhuk-M2E. The radar features improved signal processing and has a detection range of up to 120 km vs a 5 m2 RCS target for the export variant, and up to 10 targets tracked and up to 4 attacked at once in air to air mode.

• modernisation and maintenance of the airframe and engines, and upgrades of the avionics with new Elbit digital mission computer and weapon systems

• The upgrade included IFF (interrogation friend or foe) system, LCD displays and digital processors. Thales will upgrade the IFF1's combined interrogator transponder (CIT) and cryptographic national secure mode (NSM), and deliver the first CIT to RSK-MiG in 2010.
  
  The IFF CIT equipment, part of the TSB 2500 family, will offer a modern digital identification capability, compliant with Nato standard MKXA2 modes.It can securely operate with either cryptographic national mode or with the mode 4 / mode 5 Nato modes.
  
  It will enable the IAF's fleet of MiG-29 fighter jets to be interoperable with western military aircraft and avoid friendly fire.

• The NSM mode will offer India a first national secure identification capability to protect its own assets. India will receive the first building block of the comprehensive secure identification capability in mid 2011.

• an infrared search and track sensor (IRST); a laser rangefinder; and a helmet-mounted target designator.

• Thales TopSight-E helmet-mounted sight and display (HMDS) is being fitted to aircraft

• The MiG-29 is Upgraded with two RD-33 series 3 turbofan engines. The MiG-29 is the world's first aircraft fitted with dual-mode air intakes. During flight, the open air intakes feed air to the engines. While moving on the ground, the air intakes are closed and air is fed through the louvres on the upper surface of the wing root to prevent ingestion of foreign objects from the runway. This is particularly important when operating from poorly prepared airfields. The engines provide a maximum speed of 2,400km/h at altitude and 1,500km/h near the ground and the service ceiling is 18,000m. The maximum range at altitude is 1,500km and 700km near the ground.
• The weapons load was increased to 4,500 kg on six underwing and one ventral hardpoints, with similar weapon choices as for the MiG-29M variant.

Take-off Magazine : Indian MiG-29 upgrade

AN UPDATE OF UPGRADES TO INDIAN MIG 29 FULCRUMS

First Three Upgraded MiG-29UPGs Delivered to India | Aviation International News

 

[HariPrasad]

Doubtful, TVC adds to maneuverability, but mainly compared to conventional designs, but canard design had show high maneuverability comparable performance (see Rafale and EF engagements compared to F22 with TVC). I also doubt that the Mig 35 would have a good flight performance compared to the EF or even the Rafale, since it's not the light Mig of the past anymore. Making it multi role capable, adding more internal fuel, avionics and hardpoints made it much heavier, while the thrust increase was only limited. IF it would had been developed as planned, it would came around 12t empty with 2 x 50 to 52kN dry, while even the Rafale remains below 10t empty with similar dry thrust.
Much of the Mig 35 capability is still based on the myth of the past performance of the Mig 29s compared to older / conventional fighter designs and not compared to modern once. It might be the best Mig version wrt multi role performance, but still falls short in a comparison to modern fighters.

Sukhoi Dropped Canard design in Su 35 after trying them in Su 30. America not using it. India dropped the planned of Canard Tejas after wind tunnel test. Canards are certainly not futuristic designs.

 

[danger007]

@MiG-21

My friend you are making up fairy tales for your imaginary friends. I have solid combat history to talk about, you have your fairtales.

Russian Migs are pieces of flying metal which are yet to score their first teen. While teens have knocked them out in EVERY engagement.

Pakistani F-16 Block52+ are technologically the most advanced flying machines in S.Asia which are fully networked with our AESA AEWCS and our EW ranges.

They are more advanced than your MKIs. Fitting a pack of Israeli avionics into a Russian flying truck doesn't hide the fact that its STILL Russian. Red Flag exposed the Indian propaganda hype around MKIs. These flying trucks were roaming like lost cows with everyone else engaged in the fight.

If you are so sure of the Migs, send them over and see if they survive AMRAAMs. We'll have a few more enemy tailpipes to hang at Karachi PAF meuseum.

Really sir? on what basis??? isn't chinese j-11,j-10.......... etc are copy of those cheap Russian junk??? I never seen any mod talking crap like this **flying trucks were roaming like lost cows** etc... What about the so called pride of pakistan jinx f-17???

I think we should hide MKI,Migs etc in case of War between India-Pk...
@MastanKhan : what is your opinion Sir...

 

[Fawkes]

Sukhoi Dropped Canard design in Su 35 after trying them in Su 30. America not using it. India dropped the planned of Canard Tejas after wind tunnel test. Canards are certainly not futuristic designs.

I saw in some pic of boing's six generation concept, they had canards. Even j 20 has canards.

 

[HariPrasad]

I saw in some pic of boing's six generation concept, they had canards. Even j 20 has canards.

Do not bring in J20 in. Pl post a video of J 20 maneuvering at lest 50 % of F 22.

Pl look at the boing 6th generation fighter. Where is Canard. The wings are like Tejas, Cranked delta.

 

[Dazzler]

Really? You know the MIG-29UPGs have ELT-568 AESA jammers?

yes really

 

[GURU DUTT]

Do not bring in J20 in. Pl post a video of J 20 maneuvering at lest 50 % of F 22.

Pl look at the boing 6th generation fighter. Where is Canard. The wings are like Tejas, Cranked delta.

just a wild guess does that means why MOD is holding back on AMCA maybe they want the cranked delta wing design on there AMCA just like LCA as they know many things now about its behaviour , + points and shortcommings and MCA as it was known then dint had vertical tail fin i mean this _I_

 

[Mav3rick]

Pakistan should have won that war if PAF was able to kill 2/3 of IAF. Btw..neutral opinions are available in the net.

Neutral 'opinions' are readily available as well as the facts that India refused neutral arbitration (of losses) post war and that the Indian Army had exhausted over 80% of her ammo (stated by the then Army Chief).

And most importantly, India signed the ceasefire agreement a day earlier then Pakistan.....under immense pressure, Pakistan had no other option, especially since our closest allies had abandoned us diplomatically.

I am on topic. This whole discussion is not required. As you said, we already have solid military history using which results of future conflicts can be easily predicted. So since 93000 of your soldiers surrendered last time, it proves that our soldiers are better than yours and all pakistani soldiers will surrender in the next war within 7 days.

No need of F16 vs mig 29. India wins. Be happy.

On the contrary, our Soldiers, Government Officials and other Pakistanis (including civilians) totalling around 90k took refuge in India to minimise more bloodshed on either side b/w the Pakistanis and Bengalis. It was never really about India, ever.

By the way, we appreciate you guys taking in 90k of our countrymen and for providing them protection against MB.

 

[Kompromat]

Really sir? on what basis??? isn't chinese j-11,j-10.......... etc are copy of those cheap Russian junk??? I never seen any mod talking crap like this **flying trucks were roaming like lost cows** etc... What about the so called pride of pakistan jinx f-17???

I think we should hide MKI,Migs etc in case of War between India-Pk...
@MastanKhan : what is your opinion Sir...

What i stated is the truth, backed by proven records of Air Combat. If its hard for you to accept, than it ain't my problem.

Bring me the combat success the Russian flying trucks have had in combat and i'll switch my opinion.
Air show stunts don't count, they are meant for 'public consumption'.

@ptldM3

No F-14 kill has been recorded by any Mig in any war. However an Iranian F-14 (Real life Topgun) ace pilot Brig Jalil Zandi does have 11 'confirmed' A2A kills, most of them were the Russian junk Migs.

Accept the reality. Truth is different from your fairy tales.

 

[dbc]

What i stated is the truth, backed by proven records of Air Combat. If its hard for you to accept, than it ain't my problem.

Bring me the combat success the Russian flying trucks have had in combat and i'll switch my opinion.
Air show stunts don't count, they are meant for 'public consumption'.

@ptldM3

No F-14 kill has been recorded by any Mig in any war. However an Iranian F-14 (Real life Topgun) ace pilot Brig Jalil Zandi does have 11 'confirmed' A2A kills, most of them were the Russian junk Migs.

Accept the reality. Truth is different from your fairy tales.

Thinking back on his experiences during the war, Javad has been bemused at what has been reported about the Iranian Tomcat pilots. “In the 1990s, a number of observers declared the F-14 and AIM-54 to be an ‘expensive failure,’ ” he says. “We proved the contrary to be the case. We not only shot down many Iraqi fighters, but we forced hundreds of Iraqi formations to abort their missions before reaching the target.”
Iraqi pilots seemed to have learned respect for the F-14. They faced the aircraft again during Operation Desert Storm, begun only three years after the United Nations-mandated cease fire ended the Iran-Iraq hostilities. U.S. F-14 pilots who flew the fighter on escort and photo reconnaissance missions in Iraq reported that Iraqi aircraft would break off an approach once the Tomcat’s AWG-9 radar fired up.

Persian Cats | Military Aviation | Air & Space Magazine

 

[spectribution]

Mig 29UPG/K will have AESA upgrade retrofitted on them. That's why we invested in upgrade centres here than abroad. AESA is not yet mature.

MAKS 2013: Russian firms establish MiG-29UPG service centres - IHS Jane's 360

 

[MastanKhan]

What i stated is the truth, backed by proven records of Air Combat. If its hard for you to accept, than it ain't my problem.

Bring me the combat success the Russian flying trucks have had in combat and i'll switch my opinion.
Air show stunts don't count, they are meant for 'public consumption'.

@ptldM3

No F-14 kill has been recorded by any Mig in any war. However an Iranian F-14 (Real life Topgun) ace pilot Brig Jalil Zandi does have 11 'confirmed' A2A kills, most of them were the Russian junk Migs.

Accept the reality. Truth is different from your fairy tales.

Hi,

The big difference was in the american air to air missiles---. The phoenix was a monster of a missile---launched from over 50 miles away-----most iraqi pilots did not know when they died.

Please understand the significance of my last statement---. With their obsolete radars---they had no time and sense of the the oncoming death.

The missile would come screaming down from the heavens at around 3000 mph and would smash into the aircraft before the pilot even realized of the imminent disaster.

 

[Basel]

What Indians dont understand here is that PAF F-16 EW suits is capable of handling any thing they can throw at it from their arsenal and that is what they can not digest.

for those who think MLUed F-16s will not be at par of newer F-16s in PAF specially EW suite wise.

ITT Supplies AIDEWS Pods for Pakistan F-16s | Aviation International News
.
AN/ALQ-211 Suite of Integrated RF Countermeasures (SIRFC)

 

[trident2010]

What Indians dont understand here is that PAF F-16 EW suits is capable of handling any thing they can throw at it from their arsenal and that is what they can not digest.

for those who think MLUed F-16s will not be at par of newer F-16s in PAF specially EW suite wise.

ITT Supplies AIDEWS Pods for Pakistan F-16s | Aviation International News
.
AN/ALQ-211 Suite of Integrated RF Countermeasures (SIRFC)

From the second link it is clear that this suite is for USAF helicopters not the USAF fighter planes. As discussed before PAF F-16s are no match with USAF/IsAF F-16s specs. Whereas IAF Mig-29UPG is upgraded with the best possible packages.

 

[Basel]

From the second link it is clear that this suite is for USAF helicopters not the USAF fighter planes. As discussed before PAF F-16s are no match with USAF/IsAF F-16s specs. Whereas IAF Mig-29UPG is upgraded with the best possible packages.

Just try to prove your fact you twist things, PAF from start have given importance to EW suite of new and MLUed F-16s as they know what foe they have to face.

Aviation international link is a credible one and this system can be mounted on both fixed wing and rotary air crafts, here is another credible link air force technology.com

ITT Exelis to supply additional ALQ-211(V)9 pods to Pakistan - Airforce Technology

another link

ITT Supplies AIDEWS Pods for Pakistan F-16s | News | Flight Crew Finder Ltd

another link which proves its for both fixed wing and rotary air crafts.

ITT Develops a Podded Version of the AIDEWS Electronic Countermeasure System - Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News