How good the Mig-29 UPG/SMT against the F-16 Blk 50/52+ ??

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The mig 29 had a HMS 20 years before the F-16 did.

Yeah and the JHMS is inferior to tht junk right?

The R-73, when first inspected, was better then anything the west had and Mig was the first to have operational fighters with PESA.

Sure yet they long ranged Russian BVRs can be considered failure ... thanks to their pathetic performance during conflicts? A good example .. the Ethiopian-Ertirean conflict...

Even indians complained abt them:


Nearly half of Russian air-to-air missiles with IAF have homing, ageing problems: CAG report - Indian Express

PS:Ever heard of a SIDEWINDER??? initial version entered USAF service in 1956... successfully killing a zillion russian made jets! ,,, Forget the other AMRAAMs produced by USA...

Not to mention hundreds of US/European aircraft have been shutdown by Migs so what does that say? Especially when much of the time the Mig pilots were under trained and outnumbered.

And you woke up from your slumber..

And sorry but PAF F-16 that are using 1980s and 1990s computers are not 20 years ahead of a modern Mig-29s just like my laptop probably has faster data processing then some older F-16s.

Lmao.. yeah a Block 52+ uses mission computers from the 80s...

 

[sancho]

@sancho l I don't need to show you any proofs. Checkout globalsecurity arms transfer lists. Until very recently most of our Indian folk claimed that PAF didn't have Mavericks.

Then I prefer to stick to my list of officially known weapons and capabilities.

 

[Basel]

Indian will always think that our F-16s are inferior to their Mig-29s let them think that it will not change situation on ground, when their Mig-29UPG/Ks will face F-16s MLU/50/52+ then they will know many things about them, specially how much JHMCS is effective with A-Darter with 180 degree swing launch capacity and lock on after launch & lock on before launch capability.

 

[Fawkes]

Do not bring in J20 in. Pl post a video of J 20 maneuvering at lest 50 % of F 22.

Pl look at the boing 6th generation fighter. Where is Canard. The wings are like Tejas, Cranked delta.

Those are not boing designs.
Here is one I am talking about.

 

[HariPrasad]

The early Su 35 had canards to, it was deleted to reduce the RCS, since the 3D TVC increased the maneuverability anyway. For the EF it's the otherway around, which has a low RCS by design and uses the canard to improve manuverability, which is why the already developed 3D TVC is not needed. So both are features to add maneuverability, while the delta canard design is the more modern one.

Why US do not use it? Why Su 30 use it in spite of having TVC and dropped in SU 35? The fact is the growing realization that CANARD is not very useful and there are other ways to improve the performance without having the disadvantages of canard. Neither US or Russian 6th generation design have CANARD.

Those are not boing designs.
Here is one I am talking about.

They are very much Boing Designs.

Indian will always think that our F-16s are inferior to their Mig-29s let them think that it will not change situation on ground, when their Mig-29UPG/Ks will face F-16s MLU/50/52+ then they will know many things about them, specially how much JHMCS is effective with A-Darter with 180 degree swing launch capacity and lock on after launch & lock on before launch capability.

There are numbers of non Indian MIG 29 VS F 16 compression article links are posted on the thread. You can read it if you are serious in educating yourself.

 

[ptldM3]

What i stated is the truth, backed by proven records of Air Combat. If its hard for you to accept, than it ain't my problem.

Actually, you have proved nothing, and in fact have been caught making up stories and being clueless to the fact that F-14s have been shot down by Migs.

And why are you repeatedly avoiding answering what I asked, So now please show the readers how Migs have poor situational awareness (as you claimed) please provide links or at least compare a mig radar to a similar generation radar from another aircraft. Also please explain how the latest migs have inferior ECMs (as you claimed) when they use the same EW system as the Eurofighter

Bring me the combat success the Russian flying trucks have had in combat and i'll switch my opinion.
Air show stunts don't count, they are meant for 'public consumption'.

So you are saying that the 100 plus confirmed F-4s shot down in air to air combat over Vietnam was something I made up? Or the 500 plus other F-4s that were downed in Vietnam that are still contested by the US/Vietnam/USSR and Chinese authorities as to weather they were air-to-air losses or SAM losses.

Are you also denying that Pakistan did not loss dozens upon dozens of fighters to Indian Migs? Or that Israel has not lost dozens of aircraft, actually if we go by Arab claims, the Israelis lost a lot more aircraft then they air willing to admit to, instead they claim the majority were lost due to SAMs.

Or perhaps that the Cubans never downed Mirages, the Soviets never down US and Iranian aircraft intruding into its territory. And of course the Iranians never lost dozens of aircraft.


Migs have shot down hundreds of enemy fighters which are (confirmed) and as I said earlier there are dozens upon dozens of disputed claims in which migs scored probable kills; however, the confirmed losses are blamed on SAMs. The moral of the story is, you are in denial and or not aware of history/facts, which you have demonstrated to be the case.

@ptldM3

No F-14 kill has been recorded by any Mig in any war. However an Iranian F-14 (Real life Topgun) ace pilot Brig Jalil Zandi does have 11 'confirmed' A2A kills, most of them were the Russian junk Migs.

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There is at least 2 Mig-23s that have F-14 kills and 1 Mig-21 with a total of at least 4 F-14s being shot down that is definitely verifiable, with many more probable F-14s shot down up to 15 possible according to my source. And still as much as you are in denial a mig-25 shot down an F-18.

Accept the reality. Truth is different from your fairy tales.

Take your own advise since you have been proven wrong time and time again. The F-14 debate demonstrated that very well and the fact that you called the mig-29 to have inferior EW suits is simply an embarrassment on your behalf since the EW systems is the same as what is in the Eurofighter.

 

[Kompromat]

@ptldM3

meh...I never talked about vietnam war. We were talking about Fulcrums...none of which have you been able to produce a proof of.

Russian Fulcurum is a combat failure. It has proven its failure time and time again.

Russian 3rd gen jets were compareable to the American 3rd gen jets. It changed with the computer tech revolution in the US.

Lets wait until your fulcrum shoots down an F-16 or an F-15, only then we can have a reasonable debate on 'on paper' capabilities vs 'operational capabilities'.

Your tomcat claims are based on Iraqi 'claims'. They haven't been varified by Iran independently.

Even if there had been a few Tomcats shot down. They did destroy a large portion on the Iraqi AF. They were 3rd gen fighters, tactics and doctrines were different then. There was little ELINT input into the battlespace and BVR combat was in its infancy.

Fulcurum is a 4th gen air craft and an utter operational failure. Operators without alternatives should dump then in the sand for its unable to defend their air space against Vipers and Eagles.

 

[Luftwaffe]

What are you trying to prove?

Read what I posted you don't need to reply with pointless long post.

You just need to answer us the all awesome record of fulcrum no? you need to tell is why the awesome fulcrum is soon going to be retired by malaysia? you need to answer why algerian air force returned the marvellous piece of junk back to russia? you need to give us more answers why russians several times grounded their fulcrums and than come back point at Vipers. Crying at Viper's mission computer is pointless like i said it performs well belong expectations and I posted it twice you are ignoring the facts and you are deliberately avoiding to read it. I suggest stop your cheap shots F-16s currently are integrated with the best weapons/systems available.

Malaysian air force encountered problems in obtaining spares for its 14 MiG-29s, and that maintenance has been an issue for a long with russians couldn't provide new and or better spares and proper maintenance help. It effectively has become mig-21 of this era.

Kindly don't reply to me with your pointless posts if you can't prove that F-16s mission computer can't do things exactly list them specifically if you can't you are all baloney.

 

[acid rain]

Indian will always think that our F-16s are inferior to their Mig-29s let them think that it will not change situation on ground, when their Mig-29UPG/Ks will face F-16s MLU/50/52+ then they will know many things about them, specially how much JHMCS is effective with A-Darter with 180 degree swing launch capacity and lock on after launch & lock on before launch capability.

We already know the capability of F16. Block 70 was evaluated for close to a year by the IAF, Singapore block 52's have been stored at an Indian base since many years and we have gone against F16's in many excercises.

 

[HariPrasad]

We already know the capability of F16. Block 70 was evaluated for close to a year by the IAF, Singapore block 52's have been stored at an Indian base since many years and we have gone against F16's in many excercises.

US Pilots were Impressed with MKIs And BISON.

 

[acid rain]

US Pilots were Impressed with MKIs And BISON.

F16 block 70 or F16i as it was called and F18 were extensively studied for a long period of time and tested against 600 plus parameters of the IAF for a year, so we know the in and out of this aircraft.

 

[HariPrasad]

F16 block 70 or F16i as it was called and F18 were extensively studied for a long period of time and tested against 600 plus parameters of the IAF for a year, so we know the in and out of this aircraft.

I think that the most Impressive part is RADAR.

IAF evaluated both the plane F16 and F18 and reported that these planes have No future. You can not complaint too much as these planes are too old to be too good in current time of 4.5 and 5th generation plane.

 

[acid rain]

I think that the most Impressive part is RADAR.

IAF evaluated both the plane F16 and F18 and reported that these planes have No future. You can not complaint too much as these planes are too old to be too good in current time of 4.5 and 5th generation plane.

Yes, something on those lines. F16 had no future and did not fit with IAF's requirement. The B70 came with an AESA radar fit but both were too old.

 

[rockstarIN]

Indian will always think that our F-16s are inferior to their Mig-29s let them think that it will not change situation on ground, when their Mig-29UPG/Ks will face F-16s MLU/50/52+ then they will know many things about them, specially how much JHMCS is effective with A-Darter with 180 degree swing launch capacity and lock on after launch & lock on before launch capability.

1. A-Darter with JHMCS in F-16?
2. 180 degree? seriously?

@sancho l I don't need to show you any proofs. Checkout globalsecurity arms transfer lists. Until very recently most of our Indian folk claimed that PAF didn't have Mavericks.

PAF doesn't always publicize stuff it buys. We use Israeli made gear too, how many of them can you find on the internet? .. Zero.

I believe America cannot sell any weapons systems without senate/public notice. It is a democratic country.

 

[trident2010]

It is funny to see some posters try to boast what USAF/IsAF F-16s achieved as if it was achieved by PAF. PAFs F-16s are most inferior as compared to USAF and IsAF F-16s whereas IAF Mig-29UPG is one of the most advanced Mig-29 in the world. Be it electronics, weapons on communications package. Since we are discussing non-US/IsAF/NATO F-16s, Mig-29UPG had clear upper hand.