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French Senate passes Armenian genocide law

Confused how can a democracy pass a law restricting freedom of speech? Is this the effect of 2012, seriously why is France raking this up so passionately makes no sense. Everybody is media crazy these days.
 
A passage from The Flashes book of Bediuzzaman Said Nursi (Great schoolar of Turkey) Years of the Armenian attacks..

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The Flashes
The Twenty-Sixth Flash
THIRTEENTH HOPE:

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In this Hope I shall describe an important scene from the course of my life; it is bound to be somewhat lengthy, so I hope you will not become bored or offended.

After being saved from captivity in Russia during the Great War, service of religion in the Darό’l-Hikmet kept me in Istanbul for two or three years. Then through the guidance of the All-Wise Qur’an and spiritual influence of Ghawth al-A’zam and the awakening of old age, I felt a weariness at the civilized life of Istanbul and a disgust at its glittering social life. A feeling of longing for my native land drove me there, and thinking, since I am bound to die, let me die in my own country, I went to Van.

Before everything, I went to visit my medrese in Van, the Horhor. I saw that the Armenians had razed it during the Russian occupation, like the rest of the buildings of Van. It was right under and adjacent to Van’s famous citadel, which is a great monolith like a mountain. My true friends, brothers, and close students of the medrese were embodied before my eyes. Some of those self-sacrificing friends of mine had become actual martyrs, while others had died due to that calamity had become in effect martyrs.

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I could not restrain myself from weeping. I climbed to the top of the citadel which overlooking the medrese, towers above it to the height of two minarets, and I sat down. I went back in my imagination seven or eight years. Having a powerful imagination, I wandered all around that time in my mind. There was no one around to distract me from those imaginings and draw me back from that time. For I was alone. As my view of those seven or eight years expanded, I saw enough to fill a century. I saw that the town at the foot of the citadel had been completely burnt and destroyed. I looked on it so sadly it was as though from the time I had seen it before to when I was then seeing it two hundred years had passed. Most of the people of those houses had been my friends and acquaintances. The majority of them had died in the migrations, may God have mercy on them, or had gone to a wretched exile. Apart from the Armenian quarter, all the Muslim houses of Van had been levelled. My heart was lacerated. I was so affected that if I had had a thousand eyes, they would have all wept together. I had returned to my homeland from exile; I had supposed that I had been saved from exile. But alas! the most lamentable exile I experienced in my homeland. I saw that hundreds of my students and friends to whom I had been closely attached, like Abdurrahman in the Twelfth Hope, had entered the grave and that their places were all ruins.

There were some lines that had long been in my mind but I had not understood their true meaning. Now before that sad scene I understood their meaning completely. The lines were these: “If there was no separation from friends, death could find no way to our spirits so that it might take them.”24 That is to say, what kills man most is separation from those he loves. Yes, nothing had caused me as much suffering and sorrow as that situation. If assistance had not come from the Qur’an and from belief, my grief and sorrow and suffering would have made my spirit fly away.

Since early times in their verses, poets have lamented the destruction with time of the places they have been together with their beloveds. And I had seen this in most painful form with my own eyes. With the sorrow of someone passing by the dwellings of beloved friends after two hundred years, my heart and spirit joined my eyes and they all wept together. Then one by one the happy scenes of the life I had passed for nearly twenty years in study with my valuable students, when the places which were now in ruins before my eyes were flourishing and happy, sprang to life before me like pictures at the cinema, then died away and vanished. This continued before the eye of my imagination for some time.

Then I felt astonished at the state of the worldly, how is it that they deceive themselves? For the situation there showed clearly that this world is transitory and that human beings are guests within it. I saw with my own eyes how true the constantly repeated words of the people of reality: “The world is cruel, treacherous, bad; do not be deceived by it!” I also saw that just as man is connected with his own body and household, so is he also connected with his town, his country, indeed with the world. For while weeping with my two eyes at the pitifulness of old age in respect of my body, I want to weep with ten eyes not only at my medrese’s old age, but at its death. And I felt the need to weep with a hundred eyes at the half-death of my beautiful homeland.

It states in a Hadith that every morning an angel calls out: “You are born to die, and construct buildings that they may be destroyed.” I was hearing this truth not with my ears, but with my eyes.

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Ten years later I still weep when I imagine that situation, in the same way that it made me weep at that time. Yes, the ruins of the houses at the foot of the ancient citadel, thousands of years old, and the town ageing eight years in eight hundred years, and the death of my medrese, which had flourished and been the gathering-place of friends, all indicated the vastness of the immaterial corpse of all the medreses in the Ottoman Empire, which had died; the great monolith of Van’s citadel had become a gravestone to all of them. It was as though my students who had been together with me in the medrese eight years previously were weeping in their graves together with me. Indeed the ruined walls of the town and its scattered stones were weeping together with me. I saw them to be weeping.

Then I understood that I could not endure this exile in my native land. I thought that I would either have to join them in the grave, or withdraw into a cave in the mountains and await my death there. I told myself: “These unendurable, searing separations which break patience and resistance surely make death preferable to life. The pains of life such as this cannot be borne.”

I then cast a glance over the six aspects and saw them all to be black. The heedlessness arising from my intense grief showed me the world to be terrifying, empty, desolate, and about to collapse over my head. My spirit sought a point of support in the face of innumerable hostile calamities. Its endless desires which stretch to eternity were seeking out something to satisfy them. While awaiting consolation in the face of the sorrow and grief arising from those endless separations and deaths, that endless devastation, suddenly the reality was manifested of the All-Wise Qur’an’s verses:

Whatever is in the heavens and on earth—let it declare the praises and glory of God; for He is Exalted in Might, the Wise. * To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: it is He Who gives life and death; and He has power over all things.

It saved me from that pitiful, terrible, sad, separation-stained imagining, and opened my eyes. I saw that the fruits at the tops of the fruit-trees were looking at me as though smiling. “Note us as well,” they were saying. “Do not only look at the ruins.” The verses’ reality brought the following thought to mind:

“Why does an artificial letter written in the form of a town by the hand of man, who is a guest on the page of Van’s plain, being wiped out by a calamitous torrent called the Russian invasion sadden you to this extent? Consider the Pre-Eternal Inscriber, everything’s True Owner and Sustainer, for His missives on this page of Van continue to be written in glittering fashion, in the way you used to see. Your weeping over those desolate ruins arises from the error of forgetting their True Owner, not thinking that men are guests, and imagining them to be owner.”

A door to reality opened up from that error, from that searing sight, and my soul was prepared to accept the reality completely. Like iron is plunged in the fire so that it softens and may be profited from, that grievous sight and terrible state were fire which softened my soul. Through the reality of the above verses, the Qur’an of Miraculous Exposition showed it the effulgence of the truths of belief, causing it to accept it.

Yes, all thanks be to God, as is proved conclusively in parts of the Risale-i Nur like the Twentieth Letter, through the effulgence of belief in God, the reality of the verses gives a point of support to the spirit and heart which unfolds in relation to everyone’s strength of belief. This was so powerful it afforded me a strength that could have confronted calamities a hundred times more dreadful than the situation I saw. It uttered this reminder: “Everything is subjected to the command of the True Owner of this country, your Creator. The reins of all things are in His hands. Your relation with Him is sufficient.”

(...)

Source: http://www.uhuvvetgr.org/gr/popup.php?yazid=38
 
Britishes captured Palestine, Syria and Baghdad by courtesy of Indian soldiers..

INDIAN ARMY ENTERING JERUSALEM 1917
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INDIAN ARMY ENTERING BAGHDAD 1917
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INDIAN ARMY ENTERING DAMASCUS 1918
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That is this is not the victory of England
but the victory of India..
:)
 
The british empire also ruled pakistanis ( indian muslims during this period )
So why don't you shut up ?
But Muslims representators didn't supported British at any occasion thats why they considered muslims a traitors ..
Do you know British had faced resistance more than 100 years in Pakistan's regions..
 
I couldn't read all the posts. So, I apologize if this has already been posted. Amnesty International warned France about the freedom of expression just like Turkish government had warned them with the same sentences. Here is the article and link:


France: ‘Armenian genocide’ bill threatens freedom of expression

A bill passed by the French Senate yesterday would violate freedom of expression by making it a criminal offence to publicly question events termed as “genocide” under French law, Amnesty International said today.

In 2001, a French law officially declared that the mass killings and forced displacement of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire in 1915 constituted a genocide.

The new bill would impose up to a one-year jail sentence and/or a €45,000 fine on anyone found guilty of “outrageously” questioning or trivializing such events.

“This bill, if implemented, would have a chilling effect on public debate and contravene France’s international obligations to uphold freedom of expression,” said Nicola Duckworth, Europe and Central Asia Director at Amnesty International.

“People should be free to express their opinions on this issue – in France, Turkey and elsewhere.”

Turkish authorities have consistently denied that what took place in 1915 was an act of genocide. People in Turkey who contest that official version of the events have been prosecuted, in violation of their right to freedom of expression.

The European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly held that freedom of expression applies not only to inoffensive ideas, “but also to those that offend, shock or disturb the State or any sector of the population”.

International human rights law allows for restrictions on the exercise of freedom of expression if necessary and proportionate for certain specific purposes including respect of the rights or reputations of others or to protect national security or public order.

Amnesty International believes that neither of these applies in this instance, and the new legislation would criminalize the exercise of freedom of expression that is seen as “outrageously” contesting or trivializing historical events or their characterisation.

International human rights law also obliges states to prohibit advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence.

But while the French authorities claim the law would implement EU guidelines aimed at combating racist or xenophobic speech that is “likely to incite violence or hatred”, the new bill does not mention such incitement as an element of the types of expression that will be prohibited, and France already has in place legislation which prohibits such incitement.

“The real issue at stake with this bill is not whether the large-scale killings and forced displacement of Armenians in 1915 constituted a genocide, but the French authorities’ attempt to curtail freedom of expression in response to that debate,” said Nicola Duckworth.

“French authorities are failing to comply with their international human rights obligations.”

France:
 
Here is an example of how hypocrite Frenchs are. I would like to call your attention to especially this sentence by Hervé Lemoin, the director of the French national archives, "The Algerian issue was too sensitive to be studied objectively and that the article consequently had to be censored." While they consider Algerian issue "too sensitive to be studied objectively", they not only keep telling us what to think about Armenian issue but also punish people who opposes their thoughts. Voltaire must be spinning in his grave.



France censors violence against Algerians: report

The French government censored reports of the country’s violent acts committed against Algerians during the latter’s war of independence out of a recent official document, Britain’s The Times newspaper recently claimed, according to BBC Türkçe.

The government requested a historical piece from French historian Guy Perville on the Algerian war that was then substantially cut on the grounds that the loss of Algiers remained a trauma for modern France.

The director of the French national archives, Hervé Lemoin, said the Algerian issue was too sensitive to be studied objectively and that the article consequently had to be censored.

Perville said his piece initially focused on how the struggle for independence, which began with a peaceful agreement, turned into a series of violent confrontations and terror acts.

Noting that he had been censored for the first time in over 40 years, Perville said his piece was transformed into a story of glory for the French.

EUROPE - France censors violence against Algerians: report
 
bro I Think you forget how russian empire kick your *** from black sea ...how timur brutally crushed so called great ottoman sultan...how great ottoman sultan hiding under the *** of england and france when russian attack them...how u kill so many so many innocent Armenian when ottamans was facing defeat in battle and how cowerdly you join nato due to fear of ussr.......

Ok. i reply to your post. i as a partly Tatar blood might say: we in small numbers kicked russians many times and even burned moscow. Timur also crushed Hindus, and we Turkmens also admire Timur. that was inner conflict.

Talking about ww1. We fought against every piece of scum. We lost a lot either. Ww1 and ww2 were victories for Muslim world, western christian empires were severely weakened. i dont hear the might of britsh.t, french, german, russians for a long time.
 
I couldn't read all the posts. So, I apologize if this has already been posted. Amnesty International warned France about the freedom of expression just like Turkish government had warned them with the same sentences. Here is the article and link:


France: ‘Armenian genocide’ bill threatens freedom of expression

A bill passed by the French Senate yesterday would violate freedom of expression by making it a criminal offence to publicly question events termed as “genocide” under French law, Amnesty International said today.

In 2001, a French law officially declared that the mass killings and forced displacement of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire in 1915 constituted a genocide.

The new bill would impose up to a one-year jail sentence and/or a €45,000 fine on anyone found guilty of “outrageously” questioning or trivializing such events.

“This bill, if implemented, would have a chilling effect on public debate and contravene France’s international obligations to uphold freedom of expression,” said Nicola Duckworth, Europe and Central Asia Director at Amnesty International.

“People should be free to express their opinions on this issue – in France, Turkey and elsewhere.”

Turkish authorities have consistently denied that what took place in 1915 was an act of genocide. People in Turkey who contest that official version of the events have been prosecuted, in violation of their right to freedom of expression.

The European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly held that freedom of expression applies not only to inoffensive ideas, “but also to those that offend, shock or disturb the State or any sector of the population”.

International human rights law allows for restrictions on the exercise of freedom of expression if necessary and proportionate for certain specific purposes including respect of the rights or reputations of others or to protect national security or public order.

Amnesty International believes that neither of these applies in this instance, and the new legislation would criminalize the exercise of freedom of expression that is seen as “outrageously” contesting or trivializing historical events or their characterisation.

International human rights law also obliges states to prohibit advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence.

But while the French authorities claim the law would implement EU guidelines aimed at combating racist or xenophobic speech that is “likely to incite violence or hatred”, the new bill does not mention such incitement as an element of the types of expression that will be prohibited, and France already has in place legislation which prohibits such incitement.

“The real issue at stake with this bill is not whether the large-scale killings and forced displacement of Armenians in 1915 constituted a genocide, but the French authorities’ attempt to curtail freedom of expression in response to that debate,” said Nicola Duckworth.

“French authorities are failing to comply with their international human rights obligations.”

France:

Thank you,you really made an objective and honest review of this issue. I am glad that someone is on the right part of this discussion...
 
All my Turkey loving pakisthani friends ...on one side u are crying about genocide in kashmir where not more then 20 thousand people die in last 14 years
Kashmir is an occupied/disputed territory, Armenia is not, and secondly don't derail this thread.


and on other side u are not ready to accept Armenian Genocide where more then 1.5 million died
There is no proof of that, however there are documented facts and eyewitnesses accounts of the atrocities committed in IoK, not to mention those graves boys and men.

---------- Post added at 11:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 PM ----------

let

he baby let someone from turkey with turkish bloodline should answer my question not you .....ooooooo sorry i forget 20% of pakistani are from central asia 20%from greeks 20% are from iran 20% from iraq came along with Muhammad bin Qasim and remaining 20% from turkey ...with 100% pure aryan blood

WTF??? Looks like someone's read end is on fire :flame:

---------- Post added at 11:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 PM ----------

What ??????
In punjab ( now in Pakistan and India )
There were many sikhs who fought british

You know who is BHAGAT SINGH ???
GO Google it, you ignorant
There were many, but very few. Bhagat Singh is only one example, however i can give you many examples of fighters who resisted British imperial forces in Afghanistan and FATA/Khyber.

In fact when the British invaded Afghanistan 3 times (and got their rear ends handed to them all 3 times), most of their troops were Punjabis/Sikhs.

---------- Post added at 11:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 PM ----------

Britishes captured Palestine, Syria and Baghdad by courtesy of Indian soldiers..

INDIAN ARMY ENTERING JERUSALEM 1917
08031v.jpg


INDIAN ARMY ENTERING BAGHDAD 1917
baghdad_lg.jpg


INDIAN ARMY ENTERING DAMASCUS 1918
damascus.jpg


That is this is not the victory of England
but the victory of India..
:)

You see most of the soldiers in those pictures? They are all Sikhs who fought for the British Army, also indians take pride that their Gurkhas are also fighting under the British flag in Afghanistan.
 
Dude, it doesn't matter.. Indians were the ONLY ones in the entire 5000 year old history that let every invader kicked their... ahem ahem! Turks, Greeks, Huns, Mongols, Arabs, Persians, Afghans, etc etc :P

because india which also comprised pakistan was called the golden bird by the british also known as sub continent, it was the only most fertile land in the whole wide known world and as china was pretty much isolated through out the history, india was not

greeks didnt kick indian ahem ahem, india infact defeated them and it was raja poras who defeated them, it was infact iran who got kicked in their ahem ahem when entire babylon fell to the greece and the iranian king died in the battle againmst alexander, alexander ruled all the way from greece and macedonia to ahem ahem iran
 
bro I Think you forget how russian empire kick your *** from black sea ...how timur brutally crushed so called great ottoman sultan...how great ottoman sultan hiding under the *** of england and france when russian attack them...how u kill so many so many innocent Armenian when ottamans was facing defeat in battle and how cowerdly you join nato due to fear of ussr.......

Timur was a Turk, also Ottoman Empire at its height had a glory that india never had and never will have (Mughals and Islamic empires of Subcontinent don't count, since most of them were Afghan and Turk).
 
bro I Think you forget how russian empire kick your *** from black sea ...how timur brutally crushed so called great ottoman sultan...how great ottoman sultan hiding under the *** of england and france when russian attack them...how u kill so many so many innocent Armenian when ottamans was facing defeat in battle and how cowerdly you join nato due to fear of ussr.......


hahahahahahha our empire lasted 1299 to 1922 what are you talking about you little fish you bumlicked britian and you got ruled like **** , we burned down moscow , we had enemys in all fronts , tell me one country in the world who fought a war against britian incl indians and all its little bumlicking pussys ( little rats) , france incl all its bumlicking pusys , russia , greeks , austrialia and new zealand internally armenians , arabs - also an empire who had many wars a few years ago incl balkan wars etc please tell me , tell me one time a turk was a slave we are a mighty race tell me one colonial and mighty empire that lasted this long ? probably roman empire thats it , british empire lasted like 300 years , now i dnt no about , about ussr lol what has it got to do with fear they were very strong and we had to join an alliance as they were our enemies aswell and we were agains communism so britian , turkey and all nato feared them? tell me the empire that caused europe to find trade routes as our navy raped them , tell me the empire that first used gunpowder and had the best unit in the world , i could go on

---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------

i dnt no about timur but the mughal empire was nothing compared to ottoman
 
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