Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[rockstarIN]

you are not talking about cars !
you are talking about fighter jets, where a sale consists of much more than money and technology.

It's not a free for all shopping frenzy that markets will be cannibalized;
going by your argument F-15 should have dried up F-16,
Sukhoi should have dried up Mig 29s etc etc.

Come on, those have different class & capabilities,

But J-10 & improved JFT(AESA+new weapon systems) will be same class, almost same price.

 

[AVIAN]

you are not talking about cars !
you are talking about fighter jets, where a sale consists of much more than money and technology.

It's not a free for all shopping frenzy that markets will be cannibalized;
going by your argument F-15 should have dried up F-16,
Sukhoi should have dried up Mig 29s etc etc.

Yes, Sukhoi certainly have dried up Mig-29s market order with sole exception of being Mig-29K improved variant as it was purchase on the consideration of shrinking fleet of IN's sea air arm and lower budget.

To some extent, F-16 in contrast dried up the market of F-15 as F-16 could perform the same role at much cheaper cost.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Yes, Sukhoi certainly have dried up Mig-29s market order with sole exception of being Mig-29K improved variant as it was purchase on the consideration of shrinking fleet of IN's sea air arm and lower budget.

To some extent, F-16 in contrast dried up the market of F-15 as F-16 could perform the same role at much cheaper cost.

Well AVIAN

you are ignoring the value of politics and diplomacy leverage.

even with all the WOT blah blah, USA is willing to give F-16s to Pakistan
but not the same configs as Israel ?

I don't think so, countries define access to technology based on the diplomatic relationships and market needs; cannibalization can take place only when open market is available and every thing else is constant.

ROCKSTAR:

you did not get the point at all.

 

[rockstarIN]

Well AVIAN

you are ignoring the value of politics and diplomacy leverage.

even with all the WOT blah blah, USA is willing to give F-16s to Pakistan
but not the same configs as Israel ?

I don't think so, countries define access to technology based on the diplomatic relationships and market needs; cannibalization can take place only when open market is available and every thing else is constant.

ROCKSTAR:

you did not get the point at all.

Except the US arms, most of the air craft market is open, if you have money, U can buy any good range of weapon.(need political leverages too)

 

[Arsalan]

Except the US arms, most of the air craft market is open, if you have money, U can buy any good range of weapon.(need political leverages too)

but when they can be bough co-developed with collaboration of friendly nations it wont be wise to go shopping to the unreliable west!

regards!

 

[abaseen99]

(December 06, Chennai, Sri Lanka Guardian) President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan visited Sri Lanka from November 27 to 30,2010, at the invitation of President Mahinda Rajapaksa. Among those who accompanied him were Shah Mehmood Qureshi, the Pakistani Foreign Minister, Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar, his Defence Minister, and Saleem Mandviwala, Chairman of the Investment Board of the Government of Pakistan. He was also accompanied by a delegation of Pakistani businessmen.

In an article on the visit titled “A new dawn in Pak-Lanka ties”, the “Daily Times” of Lahore said on December 6: “In the past, Pakistan helped the Sri Lankan state for three reasons. First, increasing Pakistan’s ability to participate in South Asian politics and posing itself as a counter-balance to India. Second, increasing its value in the region. Third, fighting Tamil militant forces, which are considered a product of Indian intelligence agencies. “

Pakistan’s value for Sri Lanka in the past came from its willingness to supply heavy equipment such as multi-barrel artillery guns and shells to the Sri Lankan Army for use against the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE). It also helped the Sri Lankan Air Force in the servicing of its aircraft used against the LTTE. The heavy military equipment supplied by Pakistan and China helped the Sri Lankan Armed Forces in their operations against the LTTE.

Now that the LTTE has been defeated and practically destroyed by the Sri Lankan Armed Forces, Sri Lanka does not have the same pressing need for military equipment from Pakistan as it had in the past. Despite this, Pakistan is interested in selling to Sri Lanka military equipment manufactured by it with Chinese assistance. This was one of the subjects discussed with Rajapaksa. The Pakistani Defence Minister accompanied Zardari to assist him in these discussions. Qureshi was reported to have told Pakistani journalists accompanying Zardari that Sri Lanka evinced interest in the purchase of the Pakistani al-Khalid Main Battle Tanks, light weapons and ammunition, and the JF-17 Thunder aircraft jointly produced by Pakistan and China.

 

[air marshal]

Capabilities and sale of JF-17 fighter
December 8, 2010

By Air Marshal (Retd) Ayaz A Khan

The first JF-17 Thunder squadron was inducted into the PAF in 2009. The induction 150 of state of the art Pak-China built JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, will enhance operational capability of Pakistan Air Force. With improved performance for ground attack and air defense, Pakistani air power should be able to destroy the terrorist net works in North Waziristan, and elsewhere in FATA along the Pak-Afghan border. With electronic and visual detection systems and precision weapons, stocks of illegal munitions hidden by the criminals in caves could be blasted, and terrorist hideouts leveled. Its enhanced air-land and air defense capability will be assets to ward-off external aggression.

The news that the PAF could buy over 250 JF-17 Thunders therefore is welcome. It is a beautifully designed, affordably priced, jointly built multi-role fighter aircraft, which should attract customers from all over the world. The decision to sell Pak manufactured JF-17 Thunder fighters abroad will enable several African, Latin American and Asian countries, including Middle Eastern and Central Asian countries to place orders now to benefit from early orders for this fine fighting machine.

The JF-17 is a joint Chinese-Pakistani project that aimed to reduce Pakistan’s dependence on western countries for advanced fighters. By fielding a low-cost multi-role lightweight fighter with modern electronics PAF has taken a big leap and bold step to bridge the numerical and qualitative gap with the Indian Air Force, which remains a primary threat. The West dominated arms market would be challenged in days to come by China, India and Pakistan subject to their ability to master aviation technology, and manufacture quality defense products, especially aircraft. During the recent Farnborough Air Show in England two JF-17 Thunder fighters on display were admired by the thousands of defense experts and received high accolades from specialists. Farnborough is show case of the world aviation industry. The Air Staff took a bold decision to fly out two JF-17 Thunder fighters to the UK, and put them on display at Farnborough. It is therefore a matter of satisfaction that several countries including Turkey have evinced interest to procure and buy JF-17 Thunder fighters from Pakistan.

China will soon decide to procure the JF-17 Thunder fighter for the PLAAF-The Peoples Liberation Army Air Force. Beijing needs to expedite its decision to induct the JF-17 Thunder fighter into the Peoples Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF). If China delays procurement, other nations could do the same. Though the Pak-China made JF-17 Thunder should be evaluated and assessed on merit. China offered to sell twenty JF-17 Thunder fighters to the Myanamar (Burma) Air Force. The generals led government observed that the MAF will buy it after PLAAF inducts it for operational use. After Pakistan signed an agreement for the first 42 operational JF-17 Thunder aircraft, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex -PAC was seeking additional agreements with Western firms for avionics and weapons upgrades. Fed up with Western foot dragging Pakistan has decided instead to install advanced China made avionics including radars, and BVR missiles. The excessive delay in India’s competing Tejas fighter is because of project delays in the procurement of foreign component, especially engines. Dependence on the West must be cut to the minimum to give a boost to the indigenous manufacture of aircraft. The excellent Pakistan and China cooperation has helped on schedule manufacture and supply of Thunder fighters to the PAF.

PAF has now offered to sell JF-17 Thunder fighter to friendly countries. Such offers off-course will be in cooperation with China and with Chinese approval. FJ-17 Thunder fighter is expected to be priced around US dollars 20 million. Similar American, French, Swedish fighter aircraft are in the price range of 40 to 60 million dollars each. While sale to friendly countries is a good idea, selling and buying defense equipment is a highly complex activity. America does not allow sale of weapons to countries it does not approve off. Islamic Republic of Iran could be a good prospective buyer of Pakistan made defense equipment. But despite good relations, Pakistan has never offered Pakistan made weapons for sale to Iran. Pakistan being under US fiscal obligation and political pressure is unlikely to offer JF-17 Thunder for sale to Iran. The two countries have set up a joint JF-17 marketing agency to promote international export sales, and their offering has received initial interest from Turkey and some other countries. Major General Muhammad Farooq, director general of Pakistan’s Defence Export Promotion Organisation (DEPO), described the JF-17 in early April as an ideal “choice for countries which are mindful of their finances.”

Marketing and sale of industrial goods and defense products needs high organizational and logistics competence and marketing expertise. In Western countries especially in America the defense industry is in private hands. All manufacturing and trading corporations hire qualified and experienced managers to handle sale and marketing. Unqualified bureaucrats or military officers learn on the job, and lack marketing sense or expertise. Many foreign companies employ Asians viz Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Koreans and Pakistani’s in their sale and marketing departments. They are hard working professionals, who earn millions for the companies they work for and are paid well.

Equally important is the defense sale organization tasked to sell JF-17 Thunder fighter and defense equipment manufactured in Pakistan. Ministry of Defense already has the all important Secretary of Defense and Secretary of Defense Production. One more division, under a Secretary Aviation Marketing may be added to handle sale and purchase of aircraft, radars, related avionics and spares. The US, European countries and Russia have high expertise in the field of defense marketing. Pakistan and China will have to compete in this highly competitive field. And it will be impossible to do so without marketing and logistics infrastructure and expertise.

 

[Windjammer]

Came across this small news item, stating that Turkey has shown interest in joint production of the JF-17.

Source: Nawai Waqat.

 

[ANG]

Hi, I highly doubt Turkey would be interested in the JF-17. The already license produce the F-16 and have a stake in the F-35. Take care.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well Turkey is a logical colleague in JF17 Thunder project as it will allow Turkey to be able to contribute for JF17 thunder's radara and other R&D

Not to mention with Turkey an other credible partner invests in the future of a wonderful dependable plane and plateform.

Who knows AESA for JF17 thunders in future

Lets not forget Turkey brings that European flair as well to project

As for Turkey just having F16 well as you know , every nations wants to have multiple options open at all time

 

[ANG]

Hi, Turkey might be interested in selling subsytems for the plane, but I highly doubt interested in it per say. Moreover, the PAF should stick to China for all the systems in the JF-17. We have seen what France did to the PAF for Block II (a blessing in disguise though!). No need to get Europeans involved or any other tree-head nation, it makes the plane sanction prone again and defeats its whole conception then. Take care.

 

[alibaz]

Came across this small news item, stating that Turkey has shown interest in joint production of the JF-17.

Source: Nawai Waqat.

I could only find it in Nawai Waqat and no other news channel/ paper reported it. I attribute it to poor reporting. But if "True" then its great.

 

[Areesh]

Hi, Turkey might be interested in selling subsytems for the plane, but I highly doubt interested in it per say. Moreover, the PAF should stick to China for all the systems in the JF-17. We have seen what France did to the PAF for Block II (a blessing in disguise though!). No need to get Europeans involved or any other tree-head nation, it makes the plane sanction prone again and defeats its whole conception then. Take care.

You might be right be but I think we should look towards Italy for the future blocks of JF17. We have worked with them on different defense ventures and they have proved themselves to be reliable partners. May be for AESA radar for JFT we can involve Italy.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

we should always keep ALL options --as many are available --on the table and narrow it down to what is feasible, rational and sound decision.....

in that sense, this lesson applies to all aspects in life


I do agree, Italians have always proven to be reliable partners in defence sector

 

[Kompromat]

Both sides were tight-lipped about the burgeoning military cooperation between the two countries–however it is common knowledge that Turkey and Pakistan are working together in UAVs, and Satellites. Ankara is also extremely interested in the JF-17 Thunders.

‘Joint Turkish-Pakistani cabinet’ (HPCC) sign accords | The Dawn