Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[SBD-3]

i dint start going off topic, but i will stop here

thats why you always need backing cuz you end up nowhere

 

[siegecrossbow]

this is just insane how some kids - like to compare the jf-17 to f-16.

these are two diffrent fighter here and really not much to compare. their capabilites and needs are diffrent.

there is big enough market for both f-16 and jf-17. if you can sell bloody chewed up gum by a celeb . a good fighter jet will be way more easier.

jf-17 have good potential to be a sell-able fighter , and the people who will be buying it - would not be comparing it with f-16.

their need would be different.

You failed to specify which F-16 block you were talking about.

 

[SBD-3]

this is just insane how some kids - like to compare the jf-17 to f-16.

well well well we have another sample here....well son, most of the people discussing here are way much well informed, well acquainted, and well versed in milliraty matter than a newbie like you are.

these are two diffrent fighter here and really not much to compare. their capabilites and needs are diffrent.

They are both Multi Role Fighter in case you don't this terminology, try make you mind do some labour by going through this
Multirole combat aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

there is big enough market for both f-16 and jf-17. if you can sell bloody chewed up gum by a celeb . a good fighter jet will be way more easier.

I guess you would be the only one interested in re chewing an used gum than most of the people around here...but anyways, yes the market potential is great as mig-21s,23s,25s.27s and F-5s,4s, and all other 3rd gen will be replaced soon. But while the newer F-16 versions will not be able to compete with JFT on cost, the huge supply of used F-16s in expected in the market as soon as USAF starts retiring its F-16 fleet which will be sold on nominal value to allies in EDA or by other ways. Yet unless and untill JSF does not find its way in USAF service, the market is open for JFT.

jf-17 have good potential to be a sell-able fighter , and the people who will be buying it - would not be comparing it with f-16. their need would be different.

....hay so you mean that a countries are using Mig-21s and J-7s as air superiority fighters?.....JFT is targeted at the market of backbone fighter....which is fisible in large induction you cant replace you 150 odd aircraft with a plane worth 60 or 40+ Million Dollars do you?.....

 

[notorious_eagle]

Hi,

You are absolutely correct in your post---there is no substitue for air dominanc fighters---they are bred and programmed to rule the skies and that is what they will do---they are the pit bulls---they are the bull mastiffs of the skies.

No Sir, in today's warfare multi role aircraft is the name of the game especially in our part of the world. You would have been correct about this theory 20 years ago when aircrafts such as F15 and SU27 were needed because of their superior radars, but today due to miniaturization the radars for smaller aircrafts such as APG80 can give out similar performance. The purpose of Air Superiority Aircrafts have changed, its all about low radar observability.

Trust me, if pakistan had the money and the resource---they would have had a fleet of F 15 strike eagles---with a mix of F 16's---. But we don't have any money--and we got these little birdies---.

Sir we had the money when PAF purchased additional F16's, the reason PAF went for the F16's was because of its impeccable record whether it was maintenance or combat effectiveness. Its a small bird nodoubt but it is as lethal any 4.5 Generation Aircraft can get, not a coincidence that it can stand its own against any aircraft including the big bad MKI. The Indians went for additional SU30MKI because they need endurance due to their vast geographical size.

People keep talking about the RCS of su 30---they have no clue what the war doctrine of the russian air force is---as a matter of fact---they have no clue as to what a war doctrine is---why is it designed the way it is.

Sir times have changed and right now the most superior aircraft must possess features that reduces its RCS. Did you know that the SU30MKI took the highest number of hits from SAM sites when it came to Nellis Air Base, the biggest contributing factor for this was its huge a** RCS. The Russians have changed their doctrine and that is why they have invested in low radar observability as evident in PAKFA, if they wanted to keep their doctrine they would have simply made up another Souped Up Flanker. The Russians have realized that the Soviet Doctrine of quantity over quality simply wont cut it anymore.

Rest assured the SU 30 will rule the skies---the only problem is that you have stationed too many of them so close to our border---your su 30 engine would not have the time to spool up by the time they get the warning of our little birdies on the bombing run at strinagar air base.

Thats an hypothesis but no guarantee that this is true, it is something we will see if God Forbid a war breaks out. You can make a claim that the F22's will rule the sky and that certinely would have merits. But gladly, their are no F22's present in the South Asian scenario. Your making the SU30MKI something its not, its a good plane nodoubt and can take down any plane in PAF's inventory one on one(Block 52 being an exception). But gladly, air warfares are not fought one on one .

The biggest concern for pak would the su 30's that are already in flight and circling around looking for prey.

Sir again, thats something we are yet to see. What if i told you that PAF does not fear the SU30MKI, its endurance is certinely a problem cause PAF has to fly additional sorties to counter it but its not something they are loosing sleep over it. Stop believing all this Indian propaganda about SU30MKI being the ultimate air dominance fighter of the world, its all PURE BS.

 

[MastanKhan]

Notorious,

My goodman, if you bisect and disect the way you do---we should not have any problem in taking out any of our enemies.

We will let you lead the way---and you can do the damage by your analysis and win us the war. Tear them up---put them down---roll them around in hell---make them look bad---make them look like nothing---and we are three fourths of the way to victory.

The problem arises---when making the final dash on the fourth turn the enemy says---wait a minute---I got a game plan too---.


The SU 30 won't take them out one on one---but with its armament it will be one on four---.

My goodman---you don't want to see the devil---by that time it is all over and there is no turning back.

This is all fake bravado. But don't get me wrong---I still love you.

 

[rockstarIN]

Is it because of western prejudice against Pakistan or is it because they will protect their own industry?

An AESA and BVR equiped Thunder is as good as F16-blk52.

An AESA+BVR equiped thunder wont come in the price of mere 15 million. The cost will shoot up and mostly equal to Gripen & J-10.

Also integration an AESA(from where?) into JFT will take years.

Rgds,

 

[SBD-3]

An AESA+BVR equiped thunder wont come in the price of mere 15 million. The cost will shoot up and mostly equal to Gripen & J-10.

Also integration an AESA(from where?) into JFT will take years.

Rgds,

how much will an AESA and other goodies add?.....7 million, 8 million?....yet Thunder will be cheaper for PAF as PAF will get its 60% of profit paid on the aircraft back into its own pocket....so Thunder will always remain economical for PAF at least....thats why you see PAF very very interested in developing it further

 

[mjnaushad]

An AESA+BVR equiped thunder wont come in the price of mere 15 million. The cost will shoot up and mostly equal to Gripen & J-10.

Also integration an AESA(from where?) into JFT will take years.

Rgds,

I read on google translated chinese article that J10 is being tested with AESA. And as you know JFT use a smaller version radar of J10 which was later improved more....Same can be revised again....J10s AESA which is now in trail stage can be fitted with JFT....


sopc_dsp:
就这目前国产战机AESA雷达的TR组件的原型
J10B的试产小批量快了，J10B用的就是在此原型基础上提高成品率、降低成本的批产在即的TR组件，只 要订单足够，试产期间可保证大于（10部AESA雷达/年）的产量。
等J10B完全批产了，估计国产战机AESA雷达的TR组件的产量可保证超过（50部AESA 雷达/年）的产量。
J11B、J15也会用上更大的国产AESA雷达。

目前J10B担当AESA领先试用的重任，
量产的AESA也将首先满足J10B，
将来在J10B不断扩充的机群中AESA雷达的TR组件可获得不断的改进和提升，
在此基础上研制5代重歼的AESA雷达的成本和风险会大大降低，
从歼10B的AESA雷达，仿制放大的装备J11B、J15的AESA雷达，必定会投产的。


sopc_dsp:发表于 2010-5-8 18:38
J10A执行空优任务，挂载能力不弱，6枚导弹（2近4中）最大速度不小于1.8M,4枚导弹（2近2中） 最大速度不小于2M，具有优秀的高空超音速机动能力（超音速大过载盘旋能力不低于6g，具有近9g的跨音速 大过载掉头能力，200度/秒快速横滚率），优秀的中低空亚音速机敏性（中低空亚音速大于31度的急盘旋，极高的横滚加速度和约300 度/秒快速横滚（更大的横滚率被电传限制了））。
J10A执行护航任务，4枚导弹（2近2中），3副油箱，可满足JH7A全程护航要求，
J10A只在执行对地对海打击任务时，打击能力不及Su30kk、JH7A的一半。

就制空而言，空军对其性能非常满意。对地打击不是其重点、大家也看过，J10A打火箭弹也是很 准的。

J10B对地能力虽得到加强，但其空战能力则成倍提高，J10B的主要作战功能还是空优，
J10B的总体气动外形对跨音速面积率和超音速面积率进行了深度优化，重新设计了前机身、垂直尾翼、腹鳍， 更换了新的主翼（翼型基本不变，采用了更多的复合材料），新一代的3维超音速BUMP进气道在2倍音速时可 提供的总压恢复好于3波系进气道，优化后的气动外形在亚、跨、超音速的包线内的减阻效果明显，加速性能得到 改善。从试飞情况来看，高空带弹情况下（模拟弹）的极速和最大静升限均有所提高。
J10B的结构重量减重明显，挂载能力有所增强。

J10B采用了新一代的航电系统，包括改进的飞控系统，最新的配套机载相控阵雷达、（主动/被动）电战系统，新增光电雷达。
J10B的系统更新比例不低于70%

sopc_dsp 2010-5-8 19:43 :
待TH的性能稳定了，j10b将成为我空军的主力战机（海航不清楚）

sopc_dsp 发表于 2010-5-10 16:35
前段时间，解放军报某文，不是2架J10对战4架J11（升级过的）， 升空后 J10僚机因故障被迫退出，J10长机只得硬着头皮去1架J10对4架J11，对抗结果4架J11被判定击 落，单架J10意外捞个4:0战绩，连J10长机都没想到。

此文，前段时间在网上已被热炒过了。

实际上06年以后，2对4，4对4，8对8，J10对战的基本上是J11，而且是大强度检验性对抗，也有单 架J10被判定击落，J11被判定全灭也不少。



我记得我一直是8吨派的，我曾经说过只有J10AS(双&#24231在算上2个人的情况下空重接近8. 9吨。
J10B在扩大复合材料使用范围后虽然在结构重量上减重明显，但由于AESE雷达，光电雷达，电战设备的增 重抵消了部份结构减重，J10B空重虽比J10A有所减轻，但J10B还是8吨级的空重。




J10 系列

空优型：J10A

空优、对地攻击型 兼 同型教：J10S

(空中优&#21183 空优型 兼 多用途：J10B

L15成熟、量产后， J10S的产量会缩减，进一步情况未知。

重5服役前，J10B将成为国土防空主力，空装对J10B的研制盯得很紧，空装是J10B的订货大户，不过 海航很想插一脚，偷摘将来的果子。

J10B量产后J10A就将逐步减产直到停产。

目前(J10A+J10S)：(J11 系&#21015产量比例是2 ：1

不排除将来出现(J10B)：(J11 系&#21015产量比例 3 ：1 的可能

 

[rockstarIN]

I read on google translated chinese article that J10 is being tested with AESA. And as you know JFT use a smaller version radar of J10 which was later improved more....Same can be revised again....J10s AESA which is now in trail stage can be fitted with JFT....

JFT+Chinese AESA then will cannibalize J-10 export market, will China allow it?

 

[marcos98]

JFT+Chinese AESA then will cannibalize J-10 export market, will China allow it?

JFT particularly targets low-to-medium end fighter requirements of different countries, while J10 aim top end air superiority role.....

 

[SBD-3]

JFT+Chinese AESA then will cannibalize J-10 export market, will China allow it?

both are in different classes
JFT is a multirole aircraft while J-10A is an Air superiority fighter so they wont find much distractions to their respective markets (though I'm not saying that there wont be any distraction at all)

 

[rockstarIN]

both are in different classes
JFT is a multirole aircraft while J-10A is an Air superiority fighter so they wont find much distractions to their respective markets (though I'm not saying that there wont be any distraction at all)

J-10 is multi role & not dedicated air superiority fighter.

 

[rockstarIN]

JFT particularly targets low-to-medium end fighter requirements of different countries, while J10 aim top end air superiority role.....

If you fit AESA + BVR on even a Cessna air craft, the 'role' is changed.

 

[mjnaushad]

JFT+Chinese AESA then will cannibalize J-10 export market, will China allow it?

China will get profit from both ...... If someone is willing to spend 1 Billion on ACs....Be it JFT or J10....China is getting the profit....

 

[Sinnerman108]

JFT+Chinese AESA then will cannibalize J-10 export market, will China allow it?

you are not talking about cars !
you are talking about fighter jets, where a sale consists of much more than money and technology.

It's not a free for all shopping frenzy that markets will be cannibalized;
going by your argument F-15 should have dried up F-16,
Sukhoi should have dried up Mig 29s etc etc.