Evolution question.

[oFFbEAT]

Yes, evolution stopped for cockroaches. Not ended, but stopped or paused. Because there is no significant "selective pressure" for them. If there is a situation where a new form of selective pressure arises, evolution will start again. I am not sure of exact traits of cockroaches which make them excellent survivors though. About brain, you are looking at only one possibility where in becoming more and more intelligent is beneficial. But it may not be so. For example, have you ever wondered why other mammal babies start walking/swimming within hours to weeks but humans take years? because our brain is bigger and during childbirth, it will kill the mother if brain is fully formed in the womb. So, all humans are born with premature brain and it matures outside of mother's body. Now imagine a situation where brain gets bigger and starts an increase in child and mother's mortality (thus negative pressure).. then brain will start shrinking again (species gets "dumber"). It all depends on what is best suited for surviving. Humans are not exceptional. There have been "other humans" with matching intelligence who died out (well, most probably because of us). So, nothing exceptional when you look at echidna, platipus, bat etc etc.. that is every single species on earth today is exceptional in one or the other way. That is why it is a separate species. No need to bring any unseen entities like god or aliens in the equation..

you're making no sense at all.....bringing in random and meaningless examples and contradicting yourself........
What "other humans with matching intelligence" you're talking about??...did you discover a new subgroup of primates??.....and if their intelligence were indeed 'matching', then why did they die out because of us??.......makes no sense.

I've never heard that evolution can be 'paused'.....not in school/college text books, not in any science journal, not in the internet, nowhere. You're probably the first person to propose it, you can publish your 'theory' in science journals so that the scientific community takes notice......

Regarding brain size, both human and other animal brains mature after birth.....the fact that animals start walking almost instantly after birth while humans cannot, has more to do with strong leg muscles than brain maturity.........and your 'bigger brain size leading to increase in mother and child mortality' theory is absurd because, most of the growth takes place after birth.....

Your belief in the 'theory of evolution' is as strong as those who don't believe in it at all......people of both groups try to justify their beliefs at all cost...even at the cost of logic........You're probably not aware that the 'scientific community' accepts the strong points as well as the drawbacks of the 'Theory of Evolution'....
I've brought in entities like 'God' and 'aliens' and provided the logic behind it, but you're discarding them without any logic.....you just want to prove that 'evolution' is right by hook or crook.....but you don't seem to realize that when you vouch for something, you cannot use words like, "I am not sure", "may not be so", "most probably" etc.....

P.S: I am neither a creationist nor an evolutionist 'cause both has their strong and weak points.....and so, I can vouch for none.

 

[Sneaker]

you're making no sense at all.....bringing in random and meaningless examples and contradicting yourself........
What "other humans with matching intelligence" you're talking about??...did you discover a new subgroup of primates??.....and if their intelligence were indeed 'matching', then why did they die out because of us??.......makes no sense.

I've never heard that evolution can be 'paused'.....not in school/college text books, not in any science journal, not in the internet, nowhere. You're probably the first person to propose it, you can publish your 'theory' in science journals so that the scientific community takes notice......

Regarding brain size, both human and other animal brains mature after birth.....the fact that animals start walking almost instantly after birth while humans cannot, has more to do with strong leg muscles than brain maturity.........and your 'bigger brain size leading to increase in mother and child mortality' theory is absurd because, most of the growth takes place after birth.....

Your belief in the 'theory of evolution' is as strong as those who don't believe in it at all......people of both groups try to justify their beliefs at all cost...even at the cost of logic........You're probably not aware that the 'scientific community' accepts the strong points as well as the drawbacks of the 'Theory of Evolution'....
I've brought in entities like 'God' and 'aliens' and provided the logic behind it, but you're discarding them without any logic.....you just want to prove that 'evolution' is right by hook or crook.....but you don't seem to realize that when you vouch for something, you cannot use words like, "I am not sure", "may not be so", "most probably" etc.....

P.S: I am neither a creationist nor an evolutionist 'cause both has their strong and weak points.....and so, I can vouch for none.

Yeah, you are an !@^#^. Google "neanderthal". You might not have heard gazillion things. And gaziliion things are missing from first grade school books (which you might be referring),that doesn't mean they are not there. When there is no selective pressure (a.k.a natural selection), there is no evolution. You don't seem to know much about walking (especially upright walking, on two legs), balancing and brain's contribution to it. Here, let me school you little bit- Are Our Big Brains the Reason Newborns Can't Walk? - Scientific American You also seem to think legs become weaker once intoxicated, huh? I bet you also don't have slightest clue about how increase in brain size made huge dietary impact (lot weaker jaw muscle). You even don't know jacksh!t about science. There, I said it. "Drawbacksof ToE"?? seriously? First, there is no competing theories for origin of species (creation is not a theory, it is at best a hypothesis not proven for last 3000 years or so, at best). All competing theories like Lemark's theory have been invalidated by ToE (as given by Darwin). You can pack your attitude and start getting yourself educated.... naach na jaane aangan tedi...
PS: Next time back up all your claim with links/source, else you are a creationist even if pretend you are not...

 

[oFFbEAT]

Yeah, you are an !@^#^. Google "neanderthal".....

So, you were talking about 'Neanderthals' when you said there were "other humans with matching intelligence"......someone correctly pointed out that you're asserting controversial claims as 'facts'......
So far we knew that unlike the ancestors of Modern Humans(Homo Sapiens sapiens), Neanderthals were incapable of complex speech, incapable of thinking/planning ahead, used most simple tools etc. and that's probably the main reason behind their demise.....Despite sharing common ancestry, the remarkable difference in intelligence between 'Homo Sapiens Sapiens' and Neanderthals(despite having larger brain volume) intrigued the scientists......

Recent studies have suggested that Neanderthals were not as 'dumb' as they were thought to be but those studies are not the last words, until more evidence arise and the observations are studied are accepted as facts by the majority of the evolutionists, we have to refrain from making our own assumptions and trying to assert them as facts....

You might not have heard gazillion things. And gaziliion things are missing from first grade school books (which you might be referring),that doesn't mean they are not there. When there is no selective pressure (a.k.a natural selection), there is no evolution....

Ok, I might not have heard gazillion things, you heard about them, so, out of those gazillion things, can you give me any proof about only one thing(which you are claiming), that Evolution can be 'paused'??

...You don't seem to know much about walking (especially upright walking, on two legs), balancing and brain's contribution to it. Here, let me school you little bit- Are Our Big Brains the Reason Newborns Can't Walk? - Scientific American...

Firstly, I never said that the brain doesn't play any part in balancing, it plays similar role in balancing a newborn human baby and a newborn calf, the stronger leg muscles(evolved for survival-escape from predators) helps the calf to stand and walk in much less time than a human baby.....but in both cases, they are born with immature brains.....
Secondly, you're unable to realize that the article with which you want to educate me, actually supports my view and discard yours...
It says "natural selection increased brain size in early humans", indicating that Evolution 'prefers' intelligence(which I explained in post #75 against your claim that evolution has no effect on intelligence)....

It also supports my observation that due to increasing size of the human brain and small size of the pelvis of the mother, evolution has 'designed' human brain development in such a way that most of the development takes place after birth and hence it need not shrink to reduce the pressure(post #91) against your claim that it will shrink in order to avoid the pressure and make humans dumber(post #78)....evolution making species dumber......another of your remarkable claims, please provide proof of this one too...

You also seem to think legs become weaker once intoxicated, huh?....

How did you come to that conclusion?? .....I never said such irrelevant things....have you come to your wit's end that you're making things up now??...

I bet you also don't have slightest clue about how increase in brain size made huge dietary impact (lot weaker jaw muscle). You even don't know jacksh!t about science. There, I said it....

Again, talking about irrelevant things, making no sense......
We're discussing about evolution, NOT its effect/consequence....

"Drawbacksof ToE"?? seriously? First, there is no competing theories for origin of species (creation is not a theory, it is at best a hypothesis not proven for last 3000 years or so, at best). All competing theories like Lemark's theory have been invalidated by ToE (as given by Darwin). You can pack your attitude and start getting yourself educated.... naach na jaane aangan tedi.....

Well, education makes people reasonable, helps them progress by opening up their mind but your mind has closed like those Madrassa educated who don't want to believe anything but creationism......therefore, I don't think you are getting a proper education.

PS: Next time back up all your claim with links/source, else you are a creationist even if pretend you are not...

For theories, logic can be the only proof, which I've been providing in ample amounts......and which you're lacking....

 

[Mugwop]

Evolution theory doesn't explain much about bacteria flagellum .

 

[Armstrong]

Evolution theory doesn't explain much about bacteria flagellum .

You evolved from a heavenly nymph !

So hows life treating you !

 

[Selous]

Evolution theory doesn't explain much about bacteria flagellum .

Elaborate please

 

[Mugwop]

You evolved from a heavenly nymph !

So hows life treating you !

I did and lifes ok I guess.Good to hear from you.

 

[Sneaker]

So, you were talking about 'Neanderthals' when you said there were "other humans with matching intelligence"......someone correctly pointed out that you're asserting controversial claims as 'facts'......
So far we knew that unlike the ancestors of Modern Humans(Homo Sapiens sapiens), Neanderthals were incapable of complex speech, incapable of thinking/planning ahead, used most simple tools etc. and that's probably the main reason behind their demise.....Despite sharing common ancestry, the remarkable difference in intelligence between 'Homo Sapiens Sapiens' and Neanderthals(despite having larger brain volume) intrigued the scientists......

Recent studies have suggested that Neanderthals were not as 'dumb' as they were thought to be but those studies are not the last words, until more evidence arise and the observations are studied are accepted as facts by the majority of the evolutionists, we have to refrain from making our own assumptions and trying to assert them as facts....

Yeah, scientific studies are not the last words, your assertions are
It doesn't matter how much intelligent they were, it is sufficient to show you the mirror about your assertions human like intelligent happened in a very narrow range of species.

Ok, I might not have heard gazillion things, you heard about them, so, out of those gazillion things, can you give me any proof about only one thing(which you are claiming), that Evolution can be 'paused'??

Eat the humble pie, with some grass to match your intellect - Slime Time: Continental Jam Linked to Evolution's Long Pause
Not able to digest the fact that you still don't get the simple fact that whenever "natural selection" pauses, evolution pauses. It is the essence of ToE. another

Firstly, I never said that the brain doesn't play any part in balancing, it plays similar role in balancing a newborn human baby and a newborn calf, the stronger leg muscles(evolved for survival-escape from predators) helps the calf to stand and walk in much less time than a human baby.....but in both cases, they are born with immature brains.....
Secondly, you're unable to realize that the article with which you want to educate me, actually supports my view and discard yours...
It says "natural selection increased brain size in early humans", indicating that Evolution 'prefers' intelligence(which I explained in post #75 against your claim that evolution has no effect on intelligence)....

It also supports my observation that due to increasing size of the human brain and small size of the pelvis of the mother, evolution has 'designed' human brain development in such a way that most of the development takes place after birth and hence it need not shrink to reduce the pressure(post #91) against your claim that it will shrink in order to avoid the pressure and make humans dumber(post #78)....evolution making species dumber......another of your remarkable claims, please provide proof of this one too...


How did you come to that conclusion?? .....I never said such irrelevant things....have you come to your wit's end that you're making things up now??...

Again, talking about irrelevant things, making no sense......
We're discussing about evolution, NOT its effect/consequence....


Well, education makes people reasonable, helps them progress by opening up their mind but your mind has closed like those Madrassa educated who don't want to believe anything but creationism......therefore, I don't think you are getting a proper education.


For theories, logic can be the only proof, which I've been providing in ample amounts......and which you're lacking....

Apparently, evolution didn't act on you. You are the best example that dumbfcks are produced during the evolutionary process. You first "asserted" that brain got nothing to do with walking, only leg muscles. When I gave link, you changed color quicker than a chameleon. Now, let me school you again (since your comprehension ability is that of an ant) evolution has no preference with intelligent or non-intelligent creatures. it has only preference for the "survival". If intelligence help survival of species, evolution prefers it. However, if intelligence reduces the survival (like the hypothetical scenario I presented), evolution prefers dumbfcks. How hard is it to comprehend
You are providing logic??? nah, it is only comic....

Elaborate please

Oft repeated claim by creationists about "irreducible complexity" which have been debunked by scientists a gazzillion times now, famously in Dover school trial.. biologists pwned this claim there..

 

[Selous]

Oft repeated claim by creationists about "irreducible complexity" which have been debunked by scientists a gazzillion times now, famously in Dover school trial.. biologists pwned this claim there..

Tell me more...this is the first time I have heard such a thing.

 

[Sneaker]

Tell me more...this is the first time I have heard such a thing.

Well, bacteria flagellum is kind of motor (DC motor). There is a cluster of proteins behind the flagellum which make it rotate and thus bacteria can move. Creationists "asserted" that it is "irreducibly complex" meaning that if you even remove one protein it will not work. So, there assertion was "intelligent" being created it in whole, so no evolution there. But unfortunately, this was subject to lot of study earlier. It was found out that 80% of the proteins were already there in same order in bacteria needle, which is used to infect other hosts. Biologists said it is the classic case of evolution changing the whole organ for different use (like forelegs being changed to wings). They demo'd if you take out some parts in a mouse trap, it will not act as mouse trap, but can be used as a tie clip! So, it is wrong to assume any new trait has been same all along the time of evolution. It may also happen that a trait may find some new use as evolution takes place..
The Flagellum Unspun

 

[lifesci]

Again, that's a very big and blind assumption considering no other species has shown intelligence.

No offense, but thats a very ignorant statement.

There are a myriad of species that show intelligence. Whales, dolphins, heck even ants that don't have neurons (only ganglia) are smarter than cows that have a brain 1000x larger in size.

Natural selection guys, natural selection. That is all this theory of evolution is about (at least in layman's terms).

If that's all it is then it's a paradox that contradicts one of the core principles of a legitimate scientific theory: falsifiability.

Paradox: every offspring is borne of natural selection.
How is this falsifiable?

 

[lifesci]

. When there is no selective pressure (a.k.a natural selection), there is no evolution.

You need to study evolution in more detail if you think natural selection is the only mode to go about. Start with this:
Migrational evolution
Genetic Drift
Cladistic Homoplasy

then brain will start shrinking again (species gets "dumber"). It all depends on what is best suited for surviving. Humans are not exceptional. There have been "other humans" with matching intelligence who died out

Why species will get dumber with shrinking brain? This is the logic commonly employed in pseudoscientific circles. Ants have brains a 1000x smaller than cows yet possess greater intelligence. Why? That's a good quandary for you to chew over while searching for answers on Google.

And how exactly are those "other humans" or neanderthals possessing matching intelligence? As per the fossil record, the neanderthal's frontal lobe privation was the consequence of its enlarged visual cortex. That alone puts your argument to rest. I hope you know human brain anatomy in detail enough to gouge my 6 years of studying Neuroscience. Perhaps you know something I completely missed?

 

[Sneaker]

You need to study evolution in more detail if you think natural selection is the only mode to go about. Start with this:
Migrational evolution
Genetic Drift
Cladistic Homoplasy


Why species will get dumber with shrinking brain? This is the logic commonly employed in pseudoscientific circles. Ants have brains a 1000x smaller than cows yet possess greater intelligence. Why? That's a good quandary for you to chew over while searching for answers on Google.

And how exactly are those "other humans" or neanderthals possessing matching intelligence? As per the fossil record, the neanderthal's frontal lobe privation was the consequence of its enlarged visual cortex. That alone puts your argument to rest. I hope you know human brain anatomy in detail enough to gouge my 6 years of studying Neuroscience. Perhaps you know something I completely missed?

Tell me something new. Ants (or insects in general) have brains similar to mammals? LOL.. In anyways, one important question, What is your point (especially considering you signed up to post this)?

 

[Mosamania]

Actually Islam says "Nothing is made on the Image of God". But he does say that "Crated Humans in the best form" In Arabic the literal meaning does not mean the absolute best however it means in the best living form. Now again re-read what I say with these points in mind also in case you do not see my point is that the Human being IS perfect and that there is no need for mutation.

You see regarding constant mutation. How come all Human DNA evolve together (Assuming that evolution is real) I mean not only does this theory suggest that newborns carry with them a dysfunctional DNA that is to be considered a birth defect but also this theory happens at several of those at a time. Then again you may argue that it happened in such a slow manner that it was not noticeable or considered a danger to life but then I would tell you that then how come we do not see extremely close monkiyal Humanoids close to us still living who have developed enough cerebral cortex to function with instruments since the capability to use instruments is recorded in Chimps our "Closest living relative". But then again maybe we killed them all and buried the evidence and invented religion as a cover up but then we would enter into the conspiracy theory domain.

I agree there is much to still learn about science but until someone give me the exact physiological nature of "Evolution" in cell level through a detailed study of DNA RNA and mRNA function during the process of evolution it still remains a theory that people choose to "Believe" and "Believing" is the corner stone of religion.

Let me raise a very solid point that crossed my mind as well. The human body in the cellular level adopts right? For example the Esophagus when exposed to high level of HCl Acidity from the stomach its surface epithelium will undergo metaplasia right?? Then why is Metaplasia which can be considered an adoptive thus an evolution form is a cancer precursor?? Dysplasia a more powerful type of "Evolution" is so associated with carcinomas that it is always associated with it?? have not our "Ancestors" undergo these things during their evolution?? Or have an entire Evolutionary progress phase suffer from malignant cancers that is why the slow process is leap frogging in "Fossils" dug up?? These are my questions regarding the things I still see wrong in evolution and I have even more questions but I would like to hear your answers regarding those.

I looked so cute writing these things. Wow what a difference 4 years can make.

 

[lifesci]

Tell me something new. Ants (or insects in general) have brains similar to mammals? LOL.. In anyways, one important question, What is your point (especially considering you signed up to post this)?

Ants have intelligence greater than many much larger mammals, which negates your contention regarding brain size and intelligence. Talk about mammals: the ordinary house cat has a brain size much smaller than the common ungulate, yet possesses much greater intelligence.

My point is that you are full of shit and the general audience should be aware of pseudoscientific personalities that defame science by spreading misinformation.