Does the Muslim community deserve the hate they're getting ?

[wiseone2]

Only Partially.
Non Muslims should learn about Islam and distinguish the people from the religion, where possible.

What is Islam ?? Is it a book ? Or is it practice of religion defined by followers of the religion ?

 

[Sliver]

Who cares, why get your panties in a twist. Should you like monkey gods because it makes pagan hindus feel fluffy inside

statement s like these is what makes muslims alienated. Muslims want no one to say bad things about their religion or their religious figures, but show no such respect to other religions. what gives?

I am against ANY and ALL religions. I think they are all hogwash, but at least the way I conduct myself is not to belittle anyones beliefs, instead we can be rational and still be polite to others.

 

[wiseone2]

This is the most rational point in this discussion.

Islam is not defined by some hypothetical book. It is defined by the practice of its followers.
Essentially you do not want to own responsibility for any of the hard problems

 

[SarthakGanguly]

What is Islam ?? Is it a book ? Or is it practice of religion defined by followers of the religion ?

Simply put - it is an ideology.

 

[wiseone2]

Simply put - it is an ideology.

ideology as defined in a book
or an ideology defined as in practice

 

[MultaniGuy]

Its a well known fact that around the world the Muslim community is the one that least integrates into the societies where they live. They create ghettos and their own little worlds where they only interact with each other and can at times be hostile towards the locals (irony).

Especially for the Muslim communities in the west , radicalisation is turning out to be a huge problem. At first this was only an issue at home and the middle east but now its hitting every part of the European world as well as North America. They've lost thousands in the past few years because of these terrorist activities.

And perhaps not just terrorism but overall criminal and uncivilised conduct by the community (and yes this usually involves a small amount but they're the ones who stand out ) has really blotted our image on a global scale. The influx of Muslims in Germany showed a spike in sexual assaults and other crimes. British Muslims are known to adopt this behavior (as suggested by another thread some days ago). Local clerics March around the cities calling for the implementation of sharia law.

Which brings me to the question in hand. Do we deserve to be hated ?

The answer is no. There are bad apples in every society. How can you implement Sharia in a Kafir society, lol?

Integration is always going to be a problem when you come from a different culture.

Same way nonmuslims have a problem integrating in muslim societies.

 

[Yaseen1]

more precious thing is attacked more and more are its enemies.the same is the case with Muslims

 

[MultaniGuy]

more precious thing is attacked more and more are its enemies.the same is the case with Muslims

There are bad apples in every community. Integration is a problem when you come from a different culture.

 

[Yaseen1]

more precious thing is attacked more and more are its enemies.the same is the case with hatred and war against Muslims

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Unfortunately most people fail at this.

We need to realize that mslims follow Islam to varying degrees, those who take the texts too seriously like the sallafis will only see "the filth of the kuffar", spl in the west with their open liberal societies and free women, free association and personal freedoms in general.

These types of muslims are incompatible with all non muslim majority societies/countries, in fact, even within muslim majority countries, the salafis only see bad western influence and more "filth of the kuffar" even with their fellow muslims.

Here is the issue.
The issue exists with ALL Abrahamic religions. In fact Judaism would probably count as one that promotes genocide - if you go by the book. The calls for violence are far more there. But Jews - they hardly follow their religion. There is a cultural affinity - the adherence to the fact that yeh pura Divine hai - ise manna hi padega... that idea is not there.

Same with Christianity. Christianity has not evolved. The Pope has tried (and tries) but institutionally the Church remains a regressive force promoting hate for homosexuals, calling other faiths heathens and so on. But Christians have changed and become ... more accommodating. It has an advantage though - Jesus (by all accounts) was a good natured hippie (by today's standards) and that is a very good thing if peace and tolerance is taken into account.

With Islam the problem is similar to the two above. The Moderate 'Muslims' exist because they water down their obligations - with some excuses and some - what they call...being practical. The so called extremists are actually following it EXACTLY as the 'rightly guided' ones did 1400 years back. It makes two equally damaging (for the rest of the world) claims - one is that it is the FINAL message (meaning no reform is possible) and second is that there is no OTHER GOD but Allah. That removes ANY chance for a common meeting ground of different religions. To do that both sides need to compromise. I can ask a Muslim to accept my form of worship to be equivalent to his/hers. But that would violate his/her first pillar - the Tawheed. Those not well educated about theology may go ahead and shake hands. But it is the more educated among the Muslims who are the ones who become so called terrorist masterminds.

The problem with asking for reform also comes from this. There can be no reform because - IT IS THE FINAL message and FOR ALL TIME. Reformists will have to dilute the message, thereby making themselves apostates in the process.

ideology as defined in a book
or an ideology defined as in practice

As defined in the book.
The majority of people are good/better.

Islam is not defined by some hypothetical book. It is defined by the practice of its followers.
Essentially you do not want to own responsibility for any of the hard problems

You are delinking one of the biggest strengths of Islam.
The risk to reform and apostasy.

 

[wiseone2]

Here is the issue.
As defined in the book.
The majority of people are good/better.

when conduct deviates from the book

Here is the issue.
You are delinking one of the biggest strengths of Islam.
The risk to reform and apostasy.

at the end of the day deeds matter

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Same way nonmuslims have a problem integrating in muslim societies.

It is discouraged by the Muslim societies to a large extent. A proper research can pin the major blame. But for instance the idea that comes from the Pact of Umar gives out clear instructions that the two communities (Islamic and rest) are DIFFERENT. Any mixing is to be done for the benefit of Islam (marriage laws for instance).

end of the day deeds matter

True.

conduct deviates from the book

Almost everything. The peaceful coexistence that most of Muslims practice has no place in the Book. We are treated as equals to a considerable extent. Even today our religion and our God is given a level of parity. If not our Gods, our nation is considered often to be the first recipient of allegiance.
Now I know you will quote some Meccan chapters and show they are cool. But this phase was followed by another. And that is chronologically more relevant. The last and final message post abrogation. This term is extremely important for the context.

 

[MultaniGuy]

It is discouraged by the Muslim societies to a large extent. A proper research can pin the major blame. But for instance the idea that comes from the Pact of Umar gives out clear instructions that the two communities (Islamic and rest) are DIFFERENT. Any mixing is to be done for the benefit of Islam (marriage laws for instance).

True.
Almost everything. The peaceful coexistence that most of Muslims practice has no place in the Book. We are treated as equals to a considerable extent. Even today our religion and our God is given a level of parity. If not our Gods, our nation is considered often to be the first recipient of allegiance.
Now I know you will quote some Meccan chapters and show they are cool. But this phase was followed by another. And that is chronologically more relevant. The last and final message post abrogation. This term is extremely important for the context.

Whats your point. Ofcourse Muslim man is not supposed to marry those people who are not people of the book.
Non-Muslims have a problem integrating in Muslim society, getting used to Muslim society, etc.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Whats your point. Ofcourse Muslim man is not supposed to marry those people who are not people of the book.
Non-Muslims have a problem integrating in Muslim society, getting used to Muslim society, etc.

Yes. The inequality is built into the system. Hard coded.
For instance if I want to marry a Muslim girl I NEED TO CONVERT.
If a woman needs to marry a Muslim man, SHE NEEDS TO CONVERT.
Never the other way around. Never. Ever.

Of course, in our country plenty marry without converting because we have the Special Marriage Act. But Islam does not sanction this.

Yes. Non Muslims are not allowed to integrate. Except if they convert. Equality (as understood in the non Muslim societies) does not exist.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Yes. The inequality is built into the system. Hard coded.
For instance if I want to marry a Muslim girl I NEED TO CONVERT.
If a woman needs to marry a Muslim man, SHE NEEDS TO CONVERT.
Never the other way around. Never. Ever.

Thats because Hinduism and Islam are not equal. Both religions are not the same.

That should have been obvious.