China's Military Strategies

[jhungary]

So are you saying that even if use our short ballistic missiles armed with tactical nukes to target India's forward operating bases (AS A LAST RESORT) we still wouldn't be able to render them useless ?

nuke probably can lol, but normal warhead....no But if you use nuke then There will be no more Armstrong lol...Then whats the point...hehe

 

[UKBengali]

lol if you say so...

How exactly China can dominate anything if US still hold the territories? You do know there are no port in between and a single journey from China to Hawaii need to take at least 15 days. So, you purpose they all went to Hawaii and never come back? Since there were no provision and US is still holding on all those Island and dont let china resupply?

Dude it is only 5000 miles from China to Hawaii. A Chinese CBG can easily sail there and back if properly supported by tankers.

These Islands will be nothing more than isolated pockets of US military forces surrounded by massively more powerful Chinese forces.

If the US is stupid enough to try to hold on them once China attains full military modernisation, then so be it.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Let me throw in some numbers here.

Over 94,000 vessels pass through the Strait of Malacca every year, carrying about one-quarter of the world's traded goods, including oil. That's 7,833 ships per month.

I'm willing to bet the US Navy doesn't have enough ships or personnel to board and inspect (and seize?) even a small percentage of these merchant vessels. The US isn't going to sink every single ship passing through the strait. Not all of these ships are headed for China.

Moreover, Diego Garcia isn't big enough to support the entire US Navy.

The only way a blockade of the Strait of Malacca is possible is if India (and other surrounding countries) allows itself to be used as a staging base to do it. And the chances of that happening is very slim. How many small countries in the area are willing to volunteer to join a blockade and antagonize China for no reason? None.

 

[jhungary]

Dude it is only 5000 miles from China to Hawaii. A Chinese CBG can easily sail there and back if properly supported by tankers.

These Islands will be nothing more than isolated pockets of US military forces surrounded by massively more powerful Chinese forces.

If the US is stupid enough to try to hold on them once China attains full military modernisation, then so be it.

you do know the operation range of Liaoning is smaller than the single trip from China to Hawaii (at 4460 mile range at 32 knots )

And if they were travel with oiler and underway replenishment ship, you cant do any faster than 20 knots, thats 22 mile per hours...

And do you even account for the oiler itself need to refuel by other oiler to make the journey, and finally you dont just go to hawaii and return straight away, you need to stay there for operation, you need hack a lot of resupply ship to run the 10,000 mile (return journey) round the clock as long as your chinese CBG stays in Hawaii water.

Now tell me if those island were not important

 

[UKBengali]

you do know the operation range of Liaoning is smaller than the single trip from China to Hawaii (at 4460 mile range at 32 knots )

And if they were travel with oiler and underway replenishment ship, you cant do any faster than 20 knots, thats 22 mile per hours...

And do you even account for the oiler itself need to refuel by other oiler to make the journey, and finally you dont just go to hawaii and return straight away, you need to stay there for operation, you need hack a lot of resupply ship to run the 10,000 mile (return journey) round the clock as long as your chinese CBG stays in Hawaii water.

Now tell me if those island were not important

China will soon start to build CVNs.

Modern destroyers have range of around 8000 miles. That would allow
them to sail to Hawaii, loiter for some time and still be able to make it
back to China without refuelling.

Domination of the western Pacific is within Chinese capabilities by 2030.

 

[j20blackdragon]

China will soon start to build CVNs.

Modern destroyers have range of around 8000 miles. That would allow
them to sail to Hawaii, loiter for some time and still be able to make it
back to China without refuelling.

Domination of the western Pacific is within Chinese capabilities by 2030.

Not to mention modern destroyers like the 052D and 055 have a LACM capability. CVNs are not really needed at all. Just use the destroyers, launch a barrage of cruise missiles, and sail away.

 

[gambit]

well, people, i mean people, not even armchair general have any kind of brain wave will not go about saying the solution to any given challenge is to annex something lol...

I dont know what happen to that dude, but I feel bad for his shrink, if he ever have one.

The Chinese here take great glee in pointing out how, despite the US being so dominant in Iraq, had constant problems with insurgents, from in-country to foreigners. But it is easy for China to simply annex smaller Asian countries left and right because they do not have any '4th gen' fighters. These people would just simply acknowledge Chinese military superiority and peacefully submit, then once the Chinese educate them on how much their cultures owes China's influence throughout the ages, they will turn themselves into Chinese.

 

[jhungary]

China will soon start to build CVNs.

Modern destroyers have range of around That would allow
them to sail to Hawaii, loiter for some time and still be able to make it
back to China without refuelling.

Domination of the western Pacific is within Chinese capabilities by 2030.

dude, its not just about the fuel of the ship, you do know a CBG group need a lot of stuff to operate right?

Fuel for aircraft, missile and ammunition, food for sailor, drinkable water and not just that, you also need to drop off stuff instead of picking it up. Like wastage and sewage.

Building a nuclear carrier does not solve the supply problem, yeah, you have unlimited range, but until you can built nuclear fighter th at fire plasma and manned with robot, you still have an resupply problem with 10000 mile trip for home base. Or farm in your carrier group, but then I dont know how you are to resupply the missile, fuel and bullet you gonna need in an operation

The Chinese here take great glee in pointing out how, despite the US being so dominant in Iraq, had constant problems with insurgents, from in-country to foreigners. But it is easy for China to simply annex smaller Asian countries left and right because they do not have any '4th gen' fighters. These people would just simply acknowledge Chinese military superiority and peacefully submit, then once the Chinese educate them on how much their cultures owes China's influence throughout the ages, they will turn themselves into Chinese.

well, they dont process real knowledge, they just argue for the sake of an argument, and sometime people arent that smart and buy into it, like the fellow I just replied to regarding the CBG operation, then the other Chinese member here are just more than gladly to support their own blindly.

That does not reflect all Chinese population tho, When I was a uni student back in Hong Kong, I met a guy whom furiously anti west, but then at least he can talk a good game, well, he is quite educated and well informed, he dont like the west but at lease he dont buy into this Nationalistic BS.

Problem is, as far as i can see, chinese member here is not as educated and well informed as the western member, even those who claim to ne in the west studying or even teaching in tertiary education. But what do you think, even in Australia, we have a lovable moron who even have a PhD degree yet still spill out BS after BS and to a point, people start to treat him seriously simply by the account of "Well, our education system arent wmreally that bad, is it?" I think you know who I am talking about lol

 

[opruh]

The Chinese here take great glee in pointing out how, despite the US being so dominant in Iraq, had constant problems with insurgents, from in-country to foreigners. But it is easy for China to simply annex smaller Asian countries left and right because they do not have any '4th gen' fighters. These people would just simply acknowledge Chinese military superiority and peacefully submit, then once the Chinese educate them on how much their cultures owes China's influence throughout the ages, they will turn themselves into Chinese.

They are so dominant that they are evacuating their military personnel from the middle east at a lightning speed.

 

[KAL-EL]

Someone remind me why there are so many lemmings who will like a post, even if it's based on pure nationalism, hatred of the 'other side' and most importantly, completely illogical outside of their little PDF circle jerk bubble.

 

[gambit]

well, they dont process real knowledge, they just argue for the sake of an argument, and sometime people arent that smart and buy into it, like the fellow I just replied to regarding the CBG operation, then the other Chinese member here are just more than gladly to support their own blindly.

That does not reflect all Chinese population tho, When I was a uni student back in Hong Kong, I met a guy whom furiously anti west, but then at least he can talk a good game, well, he is quite educated and well informed, he dont like the west but at lease he dont buy into this Nationalistic BS.

Problem is, as far as i can see, chinese member here is not as educated and well informed as the western member, even those who claim to ne in the west studying or even teaching in tertiary education. But what do you think, even in Australia, we have a lovable moron who even have a PhD degree yet still spill out BS after BS and to a point, people start to treat him seriously simply by the account of "Well, our education system arent wmreally that bad, is it?" I think you know who I am talking about lol

The Chinese members' attitude towards formal knowledge and experience towards subjects that they do not possess in any substantive degree is not mere disrespectful but outright contemptuous -- for as long as I have been on this forum. Persistence is the refusal to admit when proven wrong or even an argument, while not wrong, is just inadequate. A simple 'I did not know that.' is too great a blow to that nationalistic pride.

 

[jhungary]

Someone remind me why there are so many lemmings who will like a post, even if it's based on pure nationalism, hatred of the 'other side' and most importantly, completely illogical outside of their little PDF circle jerk bubble.

it will only make sense if you wave the flag, cause facts to them are not matter, as long as they stay up and wave the banner, they will thank ewch other, regardless on how ridiculous it may sound

Seriously, this is something even me, living under the same sky with them for on and off 20 years, dont understand either, imagine that.

The Chinese members' attitude towards formal knowledge and experience towards subjects that they do not possess in any substantive degree is not mere disrespectful but outright contemptuous -- for as long as I have been on this forum. Persistence is the refusal to admit when proven wrong or even an argument, while not wrong, is just inadequate. A simple 'I did not know that.' is too great a blow to that nationalistic pride.

lol, you want them to admit they dont know? Never.

I dont know that, is a phase I commonly used, to explain something that I dont know, if you asked me what kind of food the pope like? I would have said I dont know, same question if you ask some Chinese member her3, they would have pick one and defend to the end of it, may it be totally illogical, as admitting you dont know something means a defeat for them, thats just their mentality. Come with the I need to win that argument regardless what.

 

[TaiShang]

Ha. Someone realy hit a nerve of those Americans. They get all flustered and defensive in this thread, because someone is not recognizing their symbols of phalic power. Sorry for derailing but these reactions are just rich.

I loved to read the heated responses. @Martian2 has done a great job by maintaining professional attitude. Only pity is that the US members brings Indonesia in. Apparently, Martian2's premise is based on a US blockade of China, which has been cleverly taken from the context of the debate.

The US is all bark and no bite.
If a naval blockade is so simple, why not do it on Iran first? Block their oil exports. Not enough balls to do it?

Air-Sea Battle is equally worthless. US airstrikes against ISIS have been ongoing since September 2014. Have they been beaten yet?

No way. I also ascribe the ineffectual response to ISIS to the US desire to contain it rather than destroy it altogether. Not only that, I remember how China and Russia blocked US action at the UNSC to launch a war against Syria.

 

[UKBengali]

dude, its not just about the fuel of the ship, you do know a CBG group need a lot of stuff to operate right?

Fuel for aircraft, missile and ammunition, food for sailor, drinkable water and not just that, you also need to drop off stuff instead of picking it up. Like wastage and sewage.

Building a nuclear carrier does not solve the supply problem, yeah, you have unlimited range, but until you can built nuclear fighter th at fire plasma and manned with robot, you still have an resupply problem with 10000 mile trip for home base. Or farm in your carrier group, but then I dont know how you are to resupply the missile, fuel and bullet you gonna need in an operation

Dude, do you have any idea how many VLS cells the currently in construction Type-55 can pack? It is at least 100. Any Chinese CBG that is sent to Hawaii is likely to contain at least 2 of these powerful cruisers. That is just the Type-55, several Type-052D are also likely to escort a Chinese CBG towards Hawaii. Let us say that it will be very well protected CBG with escort ships that can carry hundreds of both medium and long range SAMs. Only in a war situation will we even think about replacing the escort ships with others but there would be enough fire-power aboard the CBG to make the US think twice about taking on such a powerful force.

Now just how long does it take to sail to Hawaii? It is 5000 miles and the average economical cruise speed of CBG escorts is 20 mph and so that makes 500 miles in a day. Within 10 days the CBG would have arrived in the vicinity of Hawaii. Any tension with the US would make sure that at least another Chinese CBG would be parked half-way between China and Hawaii and that would therefore be only 5 days sailing from Hawaii. Of course once we get to around 2000 miles of the Chinese coastline then the long-range strike aircraft and missiles from the Chinese mainland could be employed to at least deal with any US surface force that aims to take on the Chinese Navy - submarines a little more difficult but Chinese should at least be able to hold their own since they can concentrate their whole sub force in the Western Pacific.

Now the Nimitz itself carries enough fuel to sustain 16 days of continuous flight operations if it was to maximise it's sortie rate and so the Chinese CVN would be expected to be comparable. That is plenty of onboard fuel to carry out any sort of conflict with the US before the CBG needs to head back to China(be replaced with new CBGs) or either replenished or restocked from fuel and supply ships.

Drinkable water? lol a nuclear carrier can make more than enough for both itself and the rest of the CBG. Food - easily 90 days of provision can be stocked for the CBG. Who you trying to kid here with these false arguments?

In the Western Pacific the Chinese Navy will hold all the cards. The US could only bring maybe 2/3rds of it's Navy to bear against the Chinese- the crucial advantage that the Chinese will have is that within around 2000 miles of their coastline China will have the added advantage of bringing it's airforce and land based missiles into play - US Pacific bases in this case would be more a liability rather than an asset as Chinese strikes with long-range strike aircraft and land-based missiles are likely to hamper their operational usefulness in war.

 

[jhungary]

Dude, do you have any idea how many VLS cells the currently in construction Type-55 can pack? It is at least 100. Any Chinese CBG that is sent to Hawaii is likely to contain at least 2 of these powerful cruisers. That is just the Type-55, several Type-052D are also likely to escort a Chinese CBG towards Hawaii. Let us say that it will be very well protected CBG with escort ships that can carry hundreds of both medium and long range SAMs. Only in a war situation will we even think about replacing the escort ships with others but there would be enough fire-power aboard the CBG to make the US think twice about taking on such a powerful force.

Now just how long does it take to sail to Hawaii? It is 5000 miles and the average economical cruise speed of CBG escorts is 20 mph and so that makes 500 miles in a day. Within 10 days the CBG would have arrived in the vicinity of Hawaii. Any tension with the US would make sure that at least another Chinese CBG would be parked half-way between China and Hawaii and that would therefore be only 5 days sailing from Hawaii. Of course once we get to around 2000 miles of the Chinese coastline then the long-range strike aircraft and missiles from the Chinese mainland could be employed to at least deal with any US surface force that aims to take on the Chinese Navy - submarines a little more difficult but Chinese should at least be able to hold their own since they can concentrate their whole sub force in the Western Pacific.

Now the Nimitz itself carries enough fuel to sustain 16 days of continuous flight operations if it was to maximise it's sortie rate and so the Chinese CVN would be expected to be comparable. That is plenty of onboard fuel to carry out any sort of conflict with the US before the CBG needs to head back to China(be replaced with new CBGs) or either replenished or restocked from fuel and supply ships.

Drinkable water? lol a nuclear carrier can make more than enough for both itself and the rest of the CBG. Food - easily 90 days of provision can be stocked for the CBG. Who you trying to kid here with these false arguments?

In the Western Pacific the Chinese Navy will hold all the cards. The US could only bring maybe 2/3rds of it's Navy to bear against the Chinese- the crucial advantage that the Chinese will have is that within around 2000 miles of their coastline China will have the added advantage of bringing it's airforce and land based missiles into play - US Pacific bases in this case would be more a liability rather than an asset as Chinese strikes with long-range strike aircraft and land-based missiles are likely to hamper their operational usefulness in war.

Is this a joke

Okay, do you know how many Mk41 VLS did a single Ticonderoga Carries? 121.

so, essentially you are saying is 2 or so Type 55 and a few type 52D with less than 1000 cruise missile will make US scream in Hawaii...

@gambit @SvenSvensonov

First of all, you do know 1 USCBG consist of 1 or 2 Carrier, 2 + Cruiser, 8 + Destroyer and 3 + Attack submarine. Right? and US threater command usually double the effort so 2 CSG for one operation.

The current Chinese CBG can only compare to a Ambiphous assault Group the Little Carrier USMC have and even the Iraqi did not blink face 2 of each during the invasion in 2003 (If i remember correctly, the did fight us and did not back down durong the war, and I DID FOUGHT THERE FOR 13 MONTHS) What make you think a single Chinese CBG, even with CVN and TYpe 55 they are not seriouly getting beyond 2025, would scare the US?


Okay, I have not heard about it before, you do know US expand more than 1000 cruise missile in the first moth of Iraqi war alone right? The ball par figure is like 2 to 3000 plus. and thats just first 30 days or so.

You do know a standard deployment for USCSG is 180 days and can be expanded to 360 of necessary, right


And yes drinking water and food, lol, yes, the carrier can desalinated water, but what about thecrew for destroyer, cruiser, submarine, ooler and replenishment ship, did they all have that capability? So, if they cant, what do they all drink? And what about food, do you farm in the carrier?

And how do you suppose to sit a carrier half way between China and Hawaii and waiting for war lol, you do know that would,

a. Be a sitting duck, lol you know what the Unoted States will do? Preemptive Strike comes to mind..

b. its impossible for a carrier to sit outside their port without support for that amount of time.
Can China send a CBG with continous (24/7) underway capacity offshore? A feat even the US Nacy cannot do....And they have 30 times more replenishment ship and 780 more overseas bases. The chinese cant really do it just because you said so..

And again, do you know a standard Carroer deployment is 180 days for the US, if uou are aaying China is matching the US by having 45 days ration onboard, so what did the Chonese do with the 135 other days? Starve?

About aviation fuel, again, what good for 16 odds days aviation duels? So you suggesting China come ashore of the American fight for 16 odd days then either wait for resupply or go home? Mind you, you will probably be emgaged half way across anyway so by your own word it mean you China will not ever able to make hawaii and will ran out aviation fuel about 3/4 of the way...lol

Again, US can conduct forward operation for up ro 360 days, so you fight a mere 16 daus , even all in US shore and they are supposed to scare lol?

Maybe tou should read more about Carrier Operation before commenting on said ropic, much less accusing some one with fake informarion lol