China's Military Strategies

[Martian2]

I made a simple-to-understand claim and you dummies seem to have a hard time trying to comprehend it.

Fact: The US has to pay for 750 military bases overseas. There are another 250 US military bases at home. The total US burden is 1,000 bases worldwide. This harms the US ability to fund expensive strategic weapon programs.

I'm saying that China has intentionally stayed away from shouldering a US-style military base burden. My contention is that ample funds become available for all of the new STRATEGIC Chinese weapon systems (e.g. Chengdu J-20, Shenyang J-31, Type 095 SSN, Type 096 SSBN, Type 055 Destroyer, and HGV).

Citation: Lawmakers talk big cuts for Pentagon budget

 

[Globenim]

Ha. Someone realy hit a nerve of those Americans. They get all flustered and defensive in this thread, because someone is not recognizing their symbols of phalic power. Sorry for derailing but these reactions are just rich.

 

[Genesis]

Malacca Strait

Challenge: US Navy controls the Strait of Malacca and bottlenecks your trade ships. What do you do?

Replies: The most obvious response is to send out your navy to be massacred. US naval strength and submarine capability in the Strait of Malacca are too strong.

In military parlance, a navy-on-navy engagement is called a frontal assault. You are fighting against the enemy's strength. It is usually suicidal. For example, you would never fight a Roman legion in a direct frontal attack. The Romans will close the ranks of their phalanx (and turtle-up as necessary) and you're done.

Does this mean the US wins? Not exactly.

1. Annex Myanmar to build new shipping ports. This bypasses the Strait of Malacca entirely. Also, establish radars and anti-ship ballistic missile defenses along the entire coast of Myanmar. This will extend Chinese naval control out by 2,000 miles.

2. Alternatively, use the PLA Army to march southward and annex along the way. The PLA Army can be used to control both sides of the Strait of Malacca.

In military terms, these are called flanking movements. You move your military strength to the enemy's weak points and let them have it.

In conclusion, it is important to be creative in dealing with a military problem. A straight force-on-force is not a good idea. Beating the US Navy at its own game is unlikely. You have to change the nature of the game itself.

I don't think we'll annex Myanmar. I think we got a chance now, but we won't take it, unlike Russia we have something to lose. The AIIB. We need to show we can do this fairly, now after we are completely indispensable to the global governing system and economy, we can then move on to more ambitious projects.

Though even when that happens taking over a country is over kill and not that necessary.

We just need to have some intelligence sharing treaties, and build a few radars, either sell them or base our own special mission aircrafts there, and do essentially the same thing that way.

If something goes wrong, the Myanmar government has about as much respect from the people as Justin Beiber has from fellow artists. We can always help a more accommodating man/woman step up to the plate, like that fake democratic woman in house arrest.

US has 750 foreign military bases. China has zero. Who's winning?

We have two diametrically opposite military strategies in the United States and China. The U.S. has a significant worldwide military footprint. China has none. Who has the smarter long-term military strategy?

The United States spends an ungodly sum of money to maintain, upgrade, and support 750 foreign military bases. The costs for personnel, dependents, transportation costs, training, rotation, etc. are mind-boggling. Furthermore, all of the money spent overseas are injected into foreign economies. There is minor mitigation in cost-sharing by Japan and South Korea.

However, the overall burden of maintaining 750 foreign military bases (including Guantanomo and Diego Garcia) places a huge financial strain on the U.S. military budget.

Thus, we see the U.S. being able to afford only one major military project in the F-35.

In contrast, China does not have to dissipate its military budget in supporting any foreign military bases. This allows China to showcase a multitude of new military weapons (e.g. Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang J-31 stealth fighters, Type 055 destroyer, Type 095 SSN and Type 096 SSBN, JL-3 SLBM, KJ-500 AEW&C, etc.).

If current trends continue, where the US carries the huge financial burden of maintaining 750 overseas military bases, we expect China to start pulling ahead in military technology (which we are starting to see with the ASBM, YJ-18 terminal-phase Mach 3 MARV ASCM, and the developing HGV).

As a historical note, keep in mind that the Roman Empire was financially bled to death by its numerous foreign garrisons. Eventually, the Romans withdrew from England and closed their foreign military bases in Britain to save money. Here we are two thousand years later and the United States is repeating the Roman experience.

Whether the US has enough money for projects is interesting, but the fun is just starting. The US won't nt\otice they are short of funds when we are so much below them in spending, but soon, it will take its toll.

Something a lot of people don't mention, China only has about 1.4 million active troops, the rest are military police, and not covered under the budget. The Chinese budget doesn't feed 2 million, and the internal security budget covers the all police funding.

It also doesn't cover R&D, Nuclear weapons, and a few other things.

So if America isn't feeling how over extended it is, it soon will.

 

[jhungary]

maybe If and when US started turn out military leader like @Martian2 , then I guess we all know US is going to hell in a hand basket....

Seriously, it cannot get any undesireable for China if they were to annex Bruma, the region will go hostile on China and those who were moderate toward China before (Indonesia, Thailand and Singapore) will be mounting toward US for protection from China, not to mention possible sanction from the US and EU.

Plus, it is not only US they need to defeat if the China want to punch thru the Malacca, but Indonesia and India, which both, especially the latter have a strong relationship to Russia than China, doing that will eventually piss off India, inturn, piss off Russia, their number one arms exporter.

This is a pretty dumb move if I may say so, but well...

 

[Martian2]

maybe If and when US started turn out military leader like @Martian2 , then I guess we all know US is going to hell in a hand basket....

Seriously, it cannot get any undesireable for China if they were to annex Bruma, the region will go hostile on China and those who were moderate toward China before (Indonesia, Thailand and Singapore) will be mounting toward US for protection from China, not to mention possible sanction from the US and EU.

Plus, it is not only US they need to defeat if the China want to punch thru the Malacca, but Indonesia and India, which both, especially the latter have a strong relationship to Russia than China, doing that will eventually piss off India, inturn, piss off Russia, their number one arms exporter.

This is a pretty dumb move if I may say so, but well...

Mentioning a couple of non-industrialized countries with weak militaries is not an obstacle. It's no more difficult than the US overrunning Mexico.

If Russia wanted to, it could be in Kiev in one week.

Similarly, if China wanted to, it could control both sides of the Malacca Strait inside a month. Only Russian thermonuclear weapons pose a problem for China on mainland Asia. Everything else is a minor speed bump.

The problem with China is inherently political and not on the military side. If you put Putin in charge of China, most of China's neighbors would have been swept away by now.

 

[jhungary]

Mentioning a couple of non-industrialized countries with weak militaries is not an obstacle. It's no more difficult than the US overrunning Mexico.

lol Indonesia, Thailand, India and singapore is non industrialized country with weak military..lol maybe PLA should really hire you and give you a 3 stars rank to work G3

@Indos @madokafc

did Indonesia really like @Martian2 said is a non-industralized country with a weak military that China can run it over like US can ran over Mexico? Care to shed some light on topic?

 

[Martian2]

This strategy sounds too complicated. A more simple one would be:

Challenge: US Navy controls the Strait of Malacca and bottlenecks your trade ships. What do you do?

1. Annex the USA.

2. Pop open the champagne bottle.





Just kidding just kidding. I think annexing Myanmar and dealing with international oppositions would already be difficult.

Russia has annexed Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Crimea, and Donbas (Eastern Ukraine) with ease.

For China (with a 1.4 billion population and $10.4 trillion economy) to annex neighboring countries, it should be no more difficult than the Russian experience.

China's population: 1.4 billion
Russian population: 0.14 billion

China's economy: $11.4 trillion (2015)
Russian economy: $1.2 trillion (2015, at current exchange rate of 60 Rubles per U.S. dollar)

China is TEN Russias. China could annex every neighboring country and still have a huge population left over.

 

[Nike]

@jhungary thanks,

From any point, whatever you look at it right now, Indonesia is a far cry from Jungle lusted virginal tropical rainforest she used to be in Netherland Indie era. With more than one and half million car production and more than 8 million motorcycle production every year, one can't argue Indonesia is not an emerging Industrialyzed country anymore same with Malaysia. And for Singapore is one of first rate country if you look at their economic and industrial development they had today. And heck, it must be an uneducated people dare to say Singapore is not an Industrialized country.

Militarily, although we (Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia) had small military posture compared to middle eastern countries but we made it up with high level of operational readiness and capability for rapid military deployment in regional level (especially for Indonesia and Singapore). If you ask me about Singapore capability, they had achieved C4ISR capability with their battle space concept and eventually had developt their capability much further than the rest, i can argued they are much more capable to delivering critical blow to any hostile foreign forces dare to venture far off into ASEAN region hinter area. And if the three countries willing to joined their Navy and Air forces, we can easily to muster at least 12 to 20 capable frigates and corvette and more than four squadron of highly capable jet fighter combined with AEW/C and air refueling supports to any hotspot in SCS at any given times you ask for their deployment, more than capable to tackling Chinese South Sea Fleet.

 

[Martian2]

@jhungary thanks,

From any point, whatever you look at it right now, Indonesia is a far cry from Jungle lusted virginal tropical rainforest she used to be in Netherland Indie era. With more than one and half million car production and more than 8 million motorcycle production every year, one can't argue Indonesia is not an emerging Industrialyzed country anymore same with Malaysia. And for Singapore is one of first rate country if you look at their economic and industrial development they had today. And heck, it must be an uneducated people dare to say Singapore is not an Industrialized country.

Militarily, although we (Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia) had small military posture compared to middle eastern countries but we made it up with high level of operational readiness and capability for rapid military deployment in regional level (especially for Indonesia and Singapore). If you ask me about Singapore capability, they had achieved C4ISR capability with their battle space concept and eventually had developt their capability much further than the rest, i can argued they are much more capable to delivering critical blow to any hostile foreign forces dare to venture far off into ASEAN region hinter area. And if the three countries willing to joined their Navy and Air forces, we can easily to muster at least 12 to 20 capable frigates and corvette and more than four squadron of highly capable jet fighter combined with AEW/C and air refueling supports to any hotspot in SCS at any given times you ask for their deployment, more than capable to tackling Chinese South Sea Fleet.

How many fourth generation fighter jets does Indonesia have?

12 F-16s, 5 Su-27, and 11 Su-30 = 28 modern aircraft

Taiwan has 320 fourth-generation aircraft.

Taiwan is 10 times stronger than Indonesia in air power.

Sorry, but the Indonesian military is a joke. Indonesia is merely a typical third-world country with a weak military.

 

[Nike]

LoL, as a democratic peaceful country in which doesn't have to spent a lot for military spending , at any given times we are capable enough to bought and purchasing lot of fighter if its a must and have justified reason for such spending, just waiting for Chinese to do their foolish movement and the whole country can go berserk like in the past.

 

[Indos]

lol Indonesia, Thailand, India and singapore is non industrialized country with weak military..lol maybe PLA should really hire you and give you a 3 stars rank to work G3

@Indos @madokafc

did Indonesia really like @Martian2 said is a non-industralized country with a weak military that China can run it over like US can ran over Mexico? Care to shed some light on topic?

well I don't want to waste too much time on this mate surely.....

To give him some light maybe this data from world bank could help a bit

Indonesia is number 12 in the world, just slightly below India and Russia

Manufacturing, value added (current US$)
Manufacturing refers to industries belonging to ISIC divisions 15-37. Value added is the net output of a sector after adding up all outputs and subtracting intermediate inputs. It is calculated without making deductions for depreciation of fabricated assets or depletion and degradation of natural resources. The origin of value added is determined by the International Standard Industrial Classification (ISIC), revision 3. Data are in current U.S. dollars.

Manufacturing, value added (current US$) | Data | Table

2013 Data

Country name

China 2,941,337,347,299

United States 1,966,495,000,000

Japan 1,073,277,493,560

Germany 745,240,864,784

Korea, Rep. 370,393,593,514

Italy 287,482,387,812

Brazil 250,149,717,252

France 285,590,357,502

India 223,138,049,899

United Kingdom 231,189,798,427

Russian Federation 267,591,226,274

Indonesia 205,768,427,070

 

[Brainsucker]

How many fourth generation fighter jets does Indonesia have?

12 F-16s, 5 Su-27, and 11 Su-30 = 28 modern aircraft

Taiwan has 320 fourth-generation aircraft.

Taiwan is 10 times stronger than Indonesia in air power.

Sorry, but the Indonesian military is a joke. Indonesia is merely a typical third-world country with a weak military.

Martian, this is not about Indonesia, but US vs China. We, Indonesia hold a strategic area that will able to lock down Chinese sea lines if we go into US side. PRC government know that, that's why they try hard to befriend us. Only a stupid, and crazy fanboy who don't know about Geo politic think himself as the mightiest Superpowa of the world. IF you think that you're clever, I'm afraid, a lot of people doesn't agree with you. And if you think that you're Chinese, I think you're wrong. Because you don't even know at all the nature of the Ancient Chinese Military Strategy.

 

[Víðarr]

"In military parlance, a navy-on-navy engagement is called a frontal assault"



Ummm, that's not an actual military phrase to describe naval engagements. Naval engagements are called naval warfare, not frontal assaults. Frontal assault is not naval parlance. Is anyone else, besides myself and @SvenSvensonov familiar with or part of a nation's Navy?

“Thus, we see the U.S. being able to afford only one major military project in the F-35.”


Arleigh Burke Flight III, Virginia Class, Ohio Class Replacement, UCLASS, Next Generation Bomber, MQ-4C, KC-46, F-35, P-8, Ford-Class, SM-3, SM-6, THAAD, PGS, America Class, F/A-XX, AN/SPY-6 and who knows what else.


Yeah, we can only afford major one project.

Be nice dear. The US military has plenty of high-value projects, both public and private, contained within its different budgets, we both know this. No need to get too uppity explaining things. We know the actuality of the situation, let others think what they want to.

But yes, even within the USN we see the 20 remaining Virginia Class ships, the restart of the Burkes, the UCLASS and America Class, the Ohio Replacement Program, Virginia Replacement Program, MQ-4C, the Kaiser Class replacement (T-AO(X)), the mighty Ford Class, F/A-XX, missile programs and various electronic/baseline upgrades on a fleet-wide basis. All of these are massive and well funded/fully funded programs.

The US military can support a large amount of high value projects, and this doesn't even include government funded R&D, university or corporate funded R&D or our covert budget which supports its own acquisitions and R&D.

 

[Martian2]

Martian, this is not about Indonesia, but US vs China. We, Indonesia hold a strategic area that will able to lock down Chinese sea lines if we go into US side. PRC government know that, that's why they try hard to befriend us. Only a stupid, and crazy fanboy who don't know about Geo politic think himself as the mightiest Superpowa of the world. IF you think that you're clever, I'm afraid, a lot of people doesn't agree with you. And if you think that you're Chinese, I think you're wrong. Because you don't even know at all the nature of the Ancient Chinese Military Strategy.

Don't blame me.

Madokafc wanted to bring Indonesia into the discussion. Blame him.

I stand by my claim. China has plenty of military power to annex both sides of the Malacca Strait if necessary.

There is nothing in Asia that can stop an industrialized country with 1.4 billion people and a $11.4 trillion economy (for 2015).

 

[Indos]

Martian, this is not about Indonesia, but US vs China. We, Indonesia hold a strategic area that will able to lock China if we go into US side. PRC government know that, that's why they try hard to befriend us. Only a stupid, and crazy fanboy who don't know about Geo politic think himself as the mightiest Superpowa of the world. IF you think that you're clever, I'm afraid, a lot of people doesn't agree with you. And if you think that you're Chinese, I think you're wrong. Because you don't even know at all the nature of the Ancient Chinese Military Strategy.

If there is war at SCS, all of tanker and other trading vessel that previously using SCS route should pass our sea line of course, it is our strategic important. We can block the sea route if necessary for one particular country. We also can use sabotage and take advantage of our long coast line using artillery to punch any tanker or container ship passing trough our sea line.