Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[ziaulislam]

In reply to Thunder

Rose Mirages are a 50 year old plane.Every country in the world bar Pakistan has retired their mirage 3/5.

Reason being safety of pilots and new Mirage F1 then mirage 2000 came.

Plz explain how a upgraded 50 year mirage 3/5 is better than a decades newer Mirage2000.

they are much newer and better than your mig21..

i have seen noone here saying mirage5 are better than mirage 2000

they only said that avionics on mirage5/3 are of 90s while on mirage 2000 its of 80s..
other than this FBW,engine,Handling and airframe are much better in mirage2000


and still a few countries do operate mirage5/3 like eygpt..

i think mig21 have greater issues than a mirage5/3 which outmatched mig21 in 70s conflicts

 

[The Deterrent]

Self delete

 

[Storm Force]

ZIA re your comments

they are much newer and better than your mig21..

MIG21 bisons are BVR CAPABLE

MIRAGES 3 /5 ARE NOT

MIG21 bison nos 125 or 20% of IAF fleet today

mirages 3/5 nos 175 and 45% of PAF fleet today

india can and are rapidly replacing their mig21s FOR ITS A TALL ORDER to repace so many quickly

 

[Jango]

ZIA re your comments

they are much newer and better than your mig21..

MIG21 bisons are BVR CAPABLE

MIRAGES 3 /5 ARE NOT

MIG21 bison nos 125 or 20% of IAF fleet today

mirages 3/5 nos 175 and 45% of PAF fleet today

india can and are rapidly replacing their mig21s FOR ITS A TALL ORDER to repace so many quickly

The F-7 are going to be replaced by JF-17 in large numbers, and J-10 is going to be introduced very soon. So the 45% is going to be drastically reduced. Second, the Mirage V is used Ground Attack mostly, not for interception or CAS roles, so it is not worthwhile to compare MiG-21 with Mirage. Both are different roles. Hence, the need for BVR can be questioned.

 

[Storm Force]

nuclear RE YOUR COMMENT

MIRAGES are going to be ground attack.

HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT a mirage 3/5 to last in a battle with 150 su30mki buzzing around.

the mki pesa radar will pik up that mirage from 140 km away. HE will launch one or 2 BVRs from 90 km away.

THE POOR MIRAGE PILOT radar will not pik up MKI from outside 40km

You will be sending good pilots to their death

 

[mymeaningislion]

nuclear RE YOUR COMMENT

MIRAGES are going to be ground attack.

HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT a mirage 3/5 to last in a battle with 150 su30mki buzzing around.

the mki pesa radar will pik up that mirage from 140 km away. HE will launch one or 2 BVRs from 90 km away.

THE POOR MIRAGE PILOT radar will not pik up MKI from outside 40km

You will be sending good pilots to their death

good for you dear i discussed thoroughly this issue with my father and he said it is only possible if the ground attackers are not given aerial support......... and in dense environment it is difficult to lock on to the target with so much sophisticated counter measures. so keep dreaming.......and bye the way i am unable to understand your stance...... oneday some indian say that PAF can do this and that......but on next day they refuse to own their own words......seems confused.........

 

[Jango]

nuclear RE YOUR COMMENT

MIRAGES are going to be ground attack.

HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT a mirage 3/5 to last in a battle with 150 su30mki buzzing around.

the mki pesa radar will pik up that mirage from 140 km away. HE will launch one or 2 BVRs from 90 km away.

THE POOR MIRAGE PILOT radar will not pik up MKI from outside 40km

You will be sending good pilots to their death

Are you seriously imploring the idea that we will send a mirage pilot into enemy territory without CAS or some sort of support??
If so, i pity your thought. And its not like they are gonna go in Mumbai, it will be near to the border areas on your artilllery and such. The mirage does have A2A weapons though.

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

nuclear RE YOUR COMMENT

MIRAGES are going to be ground attack.

HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT a mirage 3/5 to last in a battle with 150 su30mki buzzing around.

the mki pesa radar will pik up that mirage from 140 km away. HE will launch one or 2 BVRs from 90 km away.

THE POOR MIRAGE PILOT radar will not pik up MKI from outside 40km

You will be sending good pilots to their death

immature and ridicules approach............
do u think we are foul to send them without any cover. ....

 

[Silk]

It amazes me that people start making comment about 150 MKI using their superior radar and launch BVR from 90 km's away. These people have truly no idea what they say and their motivation is nationalism and nothing else. Let me try to explain little bits...
If you track an enemy then its radar receivers know your position... So whether you have a big radar or good passive sensors (like F22/F35 mainly operate) you do get the locations. And long range radar is nice to react. ECM or avoiding is part of the game.

You do not launch BVR from max reported range. The cone of death is not secured. The plane still can act and avoid hit. Ask any pilot the max BVR range of weapons with max 100 km range...

The RCS of your makhi is enormous. I think it is wrong comparisation to say that makhi sees Mirage first without analysing it. In fact some Mirages do not have a radar. And the ground attackers will not fly without decent CAP. And you still have things like Babur or Ra'ad. That means the Mirage will stay out of the Makhi's range.

There are many other things but I find it boring to entertain idiots.

 

[F86 Saber]

Just to add that some of the ROSE III Mirages are actually BVR capable with improved avionics and RADARs as reported numerous times by senior members. What they lack in RADAR range can be overcome with the use of AWACS. Having said that, Mirages will start getting phased out preety soon.

 

[ziaulislam]

nuclear RE YOUR COMMENT

MIRAGES are going to be ground attack.

HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT a mirage 3/5 to last in a battle with 150 su30mki buzzing around.

the mki pesa radar will pik up that mirage from 140 km away. HE will launch one or 2 BVRs from 90 km away.

THE POOR MIRAGE PILOT radar will not pik up MKI from outside 40km

You will be sending good pilots to their death

first PAF mirages with rose1 can find a mki at range 50-70km...(40 km is for gripo ASV not gripo M..ASV is on standard f-7p fighters, PG has Grifo M)

second BVR is effective only at 30-40 km..

(100 km is the ideal range at highest altitude..at low level or in tail chase mode its about 30 km)
third mirage will have awacs support

fourth they will use stand off weapons under sam coverage mostly..

fifth please compare upgraded with upgraded..
PAF rose are better than IAF mig21bis/bisons
PAF mirages are better than mig21 (non bisons)

 

[Zabaniyah]

nuclear RE YOUR COMMENT

MIRAGES are going to be ground attack.

HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT a mirage 3/5 to last in a battle with 150 su30mki buzzing around.

the mki pesa radar will pik up that mirage from 140 km away. HE will launch one or 2 BVRs from 90 km away.

THE POOR MIRAGE PILOT radar will not pik up MKI from outside 40km

You will be sending good pilots to their death

Mirage (ROSE) is an interceptor and BVR capable. Having good aircraft is just half of the story in any air force.

 

[Black Widow]

first PAF mirages with rose1 can find a mki at range 50-70km...(40 km is for gripo ASV not gripo M..ASV is on standard f-7p fighters, PG has Grifo M)

second BVR is effective only at 30-40 km..

(100 km is the ideal range at highest altitude..at low level or in tail chase mode its about 30 km)
third mirage will have awacs support

fourth they will use stand off weapons under sam coverage mostly..

fifth please compare upgraded with upgraded..
PAF rose are better than IAF mig21bis/bisons
PAF mirages are better than mig21 (non bisons)

A very balance comparison.. I don't like when ppl compare orange with mango... I agree with each word of "Zia"".

So many time I have seen comparing Different class fighter to satisfy there ego... PAF use F16 as Air superiority fighter not Mirage, So what is the point of comparing an airsuperiority fighter (Su30) fighter to Mirage III????

I agree with you that PAF Mirages are better than MiG21 and comparable to Bison...

 

[ziaulislam]

anyway mirages are going out earlier than indian mig21s..its expected to be removed by 2014..once we get 150 jf-17 which i think we will be able to do so by end of 2014

f7PG would remain in service

mirage primary job is not to engage enemy the rose 1 were supposedly to be a stop gap in late 90s for jf-17 project..and they did very well at an incredibly low price..
concept is that surveillance and detection should be done by Awacs system(thats why Pakistan have more than india for a very small area) and job then be done by mirages once the aircraft enter the kill zone of 30-60km

mirages are only better mig21 merely due to their frame quality..otherwise they are pretty similar to indian ones

 

[Storm Force]

zia

PAF has inducted 30 THUNDERS since 2009

We are now in 2011

YOU WILL NOT INDUCT 120 THUNDERS IN 3 YEARS.

PAF does not have the finances nor the infrastucture to maintain so many new fighters in 3 years.

in fact no country in the world can induct that NO OF new combat planes in 3 years BAR USA.

infact THUNDER WAS suppose to be getting a upgrade AESA RADAR before the 2nd batch of 50 was ordered.

AS FOR MIG21 there are only mig21 bisons left in frontline IAF service HENCE the reason for IAF falling nos to just 600 planes.

ie

140 su30mki = 7 sqds
60 mig29 = 3 sdqs
50 mirage2000 = 3 sdqs
110 jaguar = 5.5 sqds
120 mig27 = 7 sdqs
125 mig21v bisons = 7 sqds

= 32.5 sqds

PAF on the other hand has 175 mirage 3/5 nearly half the entire fleet

175 mirage 3/5
180 F7
44 F16 BLOCK 15
18 F16 BLOCK 52
30 Thunder mk1

450 planes