Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Blacklight]

There's still no replacement for Mirage's role...

There is bro, but lets not indulge in this topic publicly.

 

[The Eagle]

There is bro, but lets not indulge in this topic publicly.

Two points

A platform to be discussed in PAF New Fighter Thread as an option and for quality discussion
A secrete which shouldn't be revealed, in-case that is in discussion or consideration at all

but the way you replied, sounds mix of unwilling to share an option alongside the suspicion being secrete.

 

[Blacklight]

Two points

A platform to be discussed in PAF New Fighter Thread as an option and for quality discussion

Can you point to exactly which platform you are alluding to? The only thing missing in that thread are inter galactic warp speed capable flying saucers.

A secrete which shouldn't be revealed, in-case that is in discussion or consideration at all

but the way you replied, sounds mix of unwilling to share an option alongside the suspicion being secrete.

No Secrets Bro.

I am willing to share what is in the public realm, as well as my opinions, but sometimes, not everything should be discussed in Public. People have a certain respect for the Armed Forces, that should not be tarnished publicly.

You could open a PM and invite anyone that you feel would be a good contributor.

 

[The Eagle]

Can you point to exactly which platform you are alluding to? The only thing missing in that thread are inter galactic warp speed capable flying saucers.

I am not pointing at any platform but got the notion from your post, for us having an option to replace Mirage but not to discuss in public.

 

[CriticalThought]

THAT I am happy about!! I want these relics gone, let the fly boys feel the pressure, and ramp up production of JF17, or buy something off the shelf, but for Gods sake get rid of these relics!

This baby goes twice the speed of sound. Hard to get that off the shelf. Yes, modern missiles are faster, but the devil is in the details. Mission planning, mission planning, mission planning...

 

[Blacklight]

I am not pointing at any platform but got the notion from your post, for us having an option to replace Mirage but not to discuss in public.

Yes Bro, options are there.

As you may have noticed, that my points of contention with our Mirage's are it technological obsolescence, and safety record.

In the next full fledged war, we cant afford to send fighters as escorts, our front line fighters need to be able to carry their own weight, given the physical size of our adversary.

 

[Blacklight]

This baby goes twice the speed of sound. Hard to get that off the shelf. Yes, modern missiles are faster, but the devil is in the details. Mission planning, mission planning, mission planning...

Can you tell me what its range is, at Mach 2 with a full A2G load and extra fuel tanks?

 

[CriticalThought]

Can you tell me what its range is, at Mach 2 with a full A2G load and extra fuel tanks?

Please read:

JF-17 Block III Multirole Fighter

Hi, What posters are missing here is that the MIG21 is a 60's aircraft like the Mirage 3 when mach 2 ++ was the speed to be. None of the aircraft--the Mig21 or the F16---fully loaded can do mach2. Then flying at mach 2 is a very bad speed when your chasing missile is doing mach3---. That...

defence.pk

 

[Blacklight]

Please read:

JF-17 Block III Multirole Fighter

Hi, What posters are missing here is that the MIG21 is a 60's aircraft like the Mirage 3 when mach 2 ++ was the speed to be. None of the aircraft--the Mig21 or the F16---fully loaded can do mach2. Then flying at mach 2 is a very bad speed when your chasing missile is doing mach3---. That...

defence.pk

I went through that very fine logically deducted post, but a few points were missing.

1) Bomb Toss was not perfected by PAF on M3/M5, but Viper.

2) The only advantage that M3/5 have is the ability to fly fast at low alt. With extra fuel tanks and A2G load, Mach2 happens, if at all, in short bursts. A bogey on your tail, taking you down with BVR is highly probable, hence the need for escorts (not the Ayyan Malik type)

3) Data Link is how M3/5's maintain SA. In a dense EW environment this can be compromised.

4) Despite our MRO's / rebuilds, and micro fracture detection eqpt, air frame fatigue,and engine failure is a very serious issue.

5) Our adversaries are inducting the latest h/w, whereas in this particular case, we are literally "maintaining minimum credible deterrence."

6) When we loose an M3/5 pilot in peace time, being the brother of a young Shaheed it weighs on you. The tragic loss and personal struggle of a young family is heart breaking. To keep flying these relics till they literally fall apart in mid air, is nothing less than criminal negligence. Albeit it is a rare occurrence, but nonetheless a catastrophic one for those who loose a loved one.

Just my opinion, hope you dont mind.

 

[PakFactor]

I went through that very fine logically deducted post, but a few points were missing.

1) Bomb Toss was not perfected by PAF on M3/M5, but Viper.

2) The only advantage that M3/5 have is the ability to fly fast at low alt. With extra fuel tanks and A2G load, Mach2 happens, if at all, in short bursts. A bogey on your tail, taking you down with BVR is highly probable, hence the need for escorts (not the Ayyan Malik type)

3) Data Link is how M3/5's maintain SA. In a dense EW environment this can be compromised.

4) Despite our MRO's / rebuilds, and micro fracture detection eqpt, air frame fatigue,and engine failure is a very serious issue.

5) Our adversaries are inducting the latest h/w, whereas in this particular case, we are literally "maintaining minimum credible deterrence."

6) When we loose an M3/5 pilot in peace time, being the brother of a young Shaheed it weighs on you. The tragic loss and personal struggle of a young family is heart breaking. To keep flying these relics till they literally fall apart in mid air, is nothing less than criminal negligence. Albeit it is a rare occurrence, but nonetheless a catastrophic one for those who loose a loved one.

Just my opinion, hope you dont mind.

Agree with you bhai.

If you don't mind me asking your a brother of a Shaheed?

 

[CriticalThought]

I went through that very fine logically deducted post, but a few points were missing.

1) Bomb Toss was not perfected by PAF on M3/M5, but Viper.

2) The only advantage that M3/5 have is the ability to fly fast at low alt. With extra fuel tanks and A2G load, Mach2 happens, if at all, in short bursts. A bogey on your tail, taking you down with BVR is highly probable, hence the need for escorts (not the Ayyan Malik type)

3) Data Link is how M3/5's maintain SA. In a dense EW environment this can be compromised.

4) Despite our MRO's / rebuilds, and micro fracture detection eqpt, air frame fatigue,and engine failure is a very serious issue.

5) Our adversaries are inducting the latest h/w, whereas in this particular case, we are literally "maintaining minimum credible deterrence."

6) When we loose an M3/5 pilot in peace time, being the brother of a young Shaheed it weighs on you. The tragic loss and personal struggle of a young family is heart breaking. To keep flying these relics till they literally fall apart in mid air, is nothing less than criminal negligence. Albeit it is a rare occurrence, but nonetheless a catastrophic one for those who loose a loved one.

Just my opinion, hope you dont mind.

I totally understand brother, and I grieve for every one of our shaheeds. Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Iliahi Raji'oon.

But I also grieve when my countrymen have no problems with the USAF upgrading 50 year old B-52s to keep them flying, yet don't like PAF doing the same with Mirages. The PAF holds them for good reasons, I am sure everyone will agree.

In the program aired a few days ago about the Mirages, the pilots were absolutely raving about it. And I tend to agree, it is truly unique in the capabilities it provides. They practice air combat, so if push comes to shove, they can definitely defend themselves. In a WVR fight, the Mirage is no slouch if proper energy management is followed. Also, they will be used in stand-off configuration, so they may not even see an aerial fight, and may not need top cover.

As far as jamming is concerned, the textbook approach to deal with it is to first take out the jammers. You would do that for any remotely guided stand-off weapon, even if deployed from F-35.

Finally, the distance of stand-off weapons increases with the altitude of the deploying aircraft and its speed. The Mirages are perfect for developing strategies to deploy weapons at supersonic speeds. They have their solid build going for them. Once deployed, if you create sat link, they can guide the weapon from a lower altitude thus avoiding radar detection.

 

[HRK]

Can you tell me what its range is, at Mach 2 with a full A2G load and extra fuel tanks?

Mach-2 is possible for a limited time only in certain diving maneuver from the point of service ceiling in clean configuration.

This was confirmed by Kaiser Tufail in one of his blog related to his flying of Mirage at Mach-2

 

[khanasifm]

Bottom line is mirages are here not because we love them but because right now there is no $$ and no replacement available even jf-17 will first replace f-7s, needing replacement of 3 pg sqdn

Mirages has specialized roles like night attack and stand off which in case of f-16 stand off A2g is not available and jf-17 still need to get it referring to h2/h4 but perhaps would not even needed on jf-17 as h2/h4 may be coming to end after mirage phase out

Jf-17 has Chinese stand off tactical options and RAAD as strategic option

 

[CriticalThought]

Bottom line is mirages are here not because we love them but because right now there is no $$ and no replacement available even jf-17 will first replace f-7s, needing replacement of 3 pg sqdn

Mirages has specialized roles like night attack and stand off which in case of f-16 stand off A2g is not available and jf-17 still need to get it referring to h2/h4 but perhaps would not even needed on jf-17 as h2/h4 may be coming to end after mirage phase out

Jf-17 has Chinese stand off tactical options and RAAD as strategic option

Are you confirming Raad on Thunder?

 

[Reichmarshal]

This baby goes twice the speed of sound.

Only in a dive brother, in level flight its hard pressed as it is.