Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Basel]

A-Darter is already certified and mating to M3 should not be a challenge

If similar AAM is not available then PAF should go for A-Darter with HMS/D for full fleet, it now needed.

 

[khanasifm]

A-Darter is already certified and mating to M3 should not be a challenge

No evidence ??

 

[Kabotar]

What worries me is the technology demonstrator. If it's a new clean-sheet design, then even CAC would need to fly a tech demo for at least 3-4 years before the first prototype. And if we talk about jointly made engines, FBW, etc, then they'll need to do a lot of work on the demo ahead of real prototype development.

Are we going jointly make engines?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Are we going jointly make engines?

This is what the current CAS said, word for word:

Next Generation Fighter
Spearheading that vision is the development of a 5th Generation aircraft. “We can’t afford to lag behind others”.

Regional stability is undoubtedly the focus of his concern. “The geo-political and geo-strategic situation means that we have to maintain a strategic balance in the region and we need to be build it up now”.

We know that when other countries have inducted new generation fighter aircraft, they have been badly prepared for the training. Developing a new generation aircraft is always a difficult proposition, but over the years the PAF has succeeded in facing these challenges.

“I want to make sure that we have certain potent capacities and capabilities right across our aircraft, battle systems and our training too. Education will play a big part in that. It might seem a long time away but with technologies continuing to evolve at such a fast pace we have to remain focused on what that could be.

The PAF has been working on a 5th Generation fighter for almost a year now and it is likely to take at least a couple of years before it is flying. “It is indigenous at this time – we will be self-reliant and not dependent upon western or eastern partners”.

That is a tall task, considering the Chinese have struggled to develop indigenous power plants for their own fighters, but the Chief is adamant and aware of the huge challenges the PAF faces on this project. It will of course have to be ITAR-free, because Pakistan has suffered so many times in the past from United States sanctions.

“It will be collaborated with private industry and our academia. Our Aviation City is being built up now, that will one day work towards building a brighter future for our aerospace industry. Aviation education is almost non-existent in Pakistan and we need to fix that. We are setting up our own aviation hub and now formulating our vision which will cover manufacturing facilities and laboratories”.

“We have recently opened up a new university too, albeit in a make-shift location and we will link all of this to developing our own 5th Generation fighter and commercial aircraft”.

https://asianmilitaryreview.com/2019/01/pakistan-air-force-builds-for-the-future/
​

So, yes, the goal is to not just manufacture this fighter's engines, but literally build an advanced industry base in Pakistan.

 

[Kabotar]

This is what the current CAS said, word for word:

Next Generation Fighter
Spearheading that vision is the development of a 5th Generation aircraft. “We can’t afford to lag behind others”.

Regional stability is undoubtedly the focus of his concern. “The geo-political and geo-strategic situation means that we have to maintain a strategic balance in the region and we need to be build it up now”.

We know that when other countries have inducted new generation fighter aircraft, they have been badly prepared for the training. Developing a new generation aircraft is always a difficult proposition, but over the years the PAF has succeeded in facing these challenges.

“I want to make sure that we have certain potent capacities and capabilities right across our aircraft, battle systems and our training too. Education will play a big part in that. It might seem a long time away but with technologies continuing to evolve at such a fast pace we have to remain focused on what that could be.

The PAF has been working on a 5th Generation fighter for almost a year now and it is likely to take at least a couple of years before it is flying. “It is indigenous at this time – we will be self-reliant and not dependent upon western or eastern partners”.

That is a tall task, considering the Chinese have struggled to develop indigenous power plants for their own fighters, but the Chief is adamant and aware of the huge challenges the PAF faces on this project. It will of course have to be ITAR-free, because Pakistan has suffered so many times in the past from United States sanctions.

“It will be collaborated with private industry and our academia. Our Aviation City is being built up now, that will one day work towards building a brighter future for our aerospace industry. Aviation education is almost non-existent in Pakistan and we need to fix that. We are setting up our own aviation hub and now formulating our vision which will cover manufacturing facilities and laboratories”.

“We have recently opened up a new university too, albeit in a make-shift location and we will link all of this to developing our own 5th Generation fighter and commercial aircraft”.

https://asianmilitaryreview.com/2019/01/pakistan-air-force-builds-for-the-future/
​

So, yes, the goal is to not just manufacture this fighter's engines, but literally build an advanced industry base in Pakistan.

That's monumental task. I was under the impression that we are going to replicate JF17 program but this time we would contribute more on R&D. But why is everyone adamant that it will fly soon, whether it is this article or previous CAS.

 

[jupiter2007]

This is what the current CAS said, word for word:

Next Generation Fighter
Spearheading that vision is the development of a 5th Generation aircraft. “We can’t afford to lag behind others”.

Regional stability is undoubtedly the focus of his concern. “The geo-political and geo-strategic situation means that we have to maintain a strategic balance in the region and we need to be build it up now”.

We know that when other countries have inducted new generation fighter aircraft, they have been badly prepared for the training. Developing a new generation aircraft is always a difficult proposition, but over the years the PAF has succeeded in facing these challenges.

“I want to make sure that we have certain potent capacities and capabilities right across our aircraft, battle systems and our training too. Education will play a big part in that. It might seem a long time away but with technologies continuing to evolve at such a fast pace we have to remain focused on what that could be.

The PAF has been working on a 5th Generation fighter for almost a year now and it is likely to take at least a couple of years before it is flying. “It is indigenous at this time – we will be self-reliant and not dependent upon western or eastern partners”.

That is a tall task, considering the Chinese have struggled to develop indigenous power plants for their own fighters, but the Chief is adamant and aware of the huge challenges the PAF faces on this project. It will of course have to be ITAR-free, because Pakistan has suffered so many times in the past from United States sanctions.

“It will be collaborated with private industry and our academia. Our Aviation City is being built up now, that will one day work towards building a brighter future for our aerospace industry. Aviation education is almost non-existent in Pakistan and we need to fix that. We are setting up our own aviation hub and now formulating our vision which will cover manufacturing facilities and laboratories”.

“We have recently opened up a new university too, albeit in a make-shift location and we will link all of this to developing our own 5th Generation fighter and commercial aircraft”.

https://asianmilitaryreview.com/2019/01/pakistan-air-force-builds-for-the-future/
​

So, yes, the goal is to not just manufacture this fighter's engines, but literally build an advanced industry base in Pakistan.

These are some Very big statements but we all know it takes decades not couple of years to have the required infrastructure to build 100% aircraft at home. He’s not talking about simple aircraft, he specifically talking about 5th generations fighter. Only few western countries have been able to produce 4th generations fighter, this not an easy task.

 

[Quwa]

That's monumental task. I was under the impression that we are going to replicate JF17 program but this time we would contribute more on R&D. But why is everyone adamant that it will fly soon, whether it is this article or previous CAS.

These are some Very big statements but we all know it take decades not couple of years to have the required infrastructure to build 100% aircraft at home. He’s not talking about simple aircraft, he specifically talking about 5th generations fighter. Only few countries in the western world have been able to produce 4th generations fighter, this not an easy task.

It's a situation of necessity driving action.

Pakistan is perpetually short on dollars.

Pakistan is regularly denied new tech.

India has every support mechanism available, Pakistan has none (that India can't counter).

There's no other way than to develop and make your own high performance jet at home, and to localize every critical component.

In a way, the PAF embraced the logic of those who spearheaded our nuclear program in the 1970s, i.e. trust no one, and employ a deterrent.

So, is it ambitious? Yes. Is it difficult? Yes.

That said, there are places where Pakistan can learn a lot about it. You have Brazil, it knows a lot about aircraft supply chain management. There is also Ukraine, which knows gas turbines and engine technology. And finally, there's South Africa, which tried making a next gen jet (in the 1980s this was the 4 / 4.5 gen Carver), and that too 100% local, so it has a lot of expertise and lessons.

You also lack any counter incentive in Pakistan. In India, you have multiple factions jockeying to sell imports, which negatively can affect homegrown work. That's not there in Pakistan.

In Pakistan, it's basically Azm or nothing. So it will move forward. There'll be delays, issues, etc, but in the end, the payoff is really, really huge.

You develop a gas turbine industry which will cut imports and drive high value exports.

You develop a composites fabrication industry that will drive high value exports.

You expand the engineering design and testing base, which, again, will drive exports.

Those exports will bring dollars, and we can really put that towards nation building while also meeting our national defence needs.

Plus, we need to have some faith as well. If we put in all of the effort, and for the right reasons, we can also expect good things. It's in our beliefs.

 

[jupiter2007]

It's a situation of necessity driving action.

Pakistan is perpetually short on dollars.

Pakistan is regularly denied new tech.

India has every support mechanism available, Pakistan has none (that India can't counter).

There's no other way than to develop and make your own high performance jet at home, and to localize every critical component.

In a way, the PAF embraced the logic of those who spearheaded our nuclear program in the 1970s, i.e. trust no one, and employ a deterrent.

So, is it ambitious? Yes. Is it difficult? Yes.

That said, there are places where Pakistan can learn a lot about it. You have Brazil, it knows a lot about aircraft supply chain management. There is also Ukraine, which knows gas turbines and engine technology. And finally, there's South Africa, which tried making a next gen jet (in the 1980s this was the 4 / 4.5 gen Carver), and that too 100% local, so it has a lot of expertise and lessons.

You also lack any counter incentive in Pakistan. In India, you have multiple factions jockeying to sell imports, which negatively can affect homegrown work. That's not there in Pakistan.

In Pakistan, it's basically Azm or nothing. So it will move forward. There'll be delays, issues, etc, but in the end, the payoff is really, really huge.

You develop a gas turbine industry which will cut imports and drive high value exports.

You develop a composites fabrication industry that will drive high value exports.

You expand the engineering design and testing base, which, again, will drive exports.

Those exports will bring dollars, and we can really put that towards nation building while also meeting our national defence needs.

Plus, we need to have some faith as well. If we put in all of the effort, and for the right reasons, we can also expect good things. It's in our beliefs.

We still depend on Chinese for even simple update to JF-17, is it possible to have 5th generations fighter flying in 2 to 3 years? Unless he is taking about redesign heavier JF-17 Block4 (Possibly with two engines) with empty weight of 9000KG.

 

[jamal18]

Guys, I am a little confused. Did the man actually say Pakistan is making it's own power plant?

 

[Quwa]

We still depend on Chinese for even simple update to JF-17, is it possible to have 5th generations fighter flying in 2 to 3 years? Unless he is taking about redesign heavier JF-17 Block4 (Possibly with two engines) with empty weight of 9000KG.

I don't think we'll see a prototype until 2030, but we might see tech demonstrators in the mid-2020s to help us develop those technologies.

 

[Kabotar]

I don't think we'll see a prototype until 2030, but we might see tech demonstrators in the mid-2020s to help us develop those technologies.

@messiach @Oscar @Dazzler

 

[SQ8]

@messiach @Oscar @Dazzler

Mentioned the same earlier.AZM will face the same financial and technological delays as the Block-3

 

[messiach]

Work is at fast pace. We shall see it much earlie than 2030.

@messiach @Oscar @Dazzler

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

It's a situation of necessity driving action.

Pakistan is perpetually short on dollars.

Pakistan is regularly denied new tech.

India has every support mechanism available, Pakistan has none (that India can't counter).

There's no other way than to develop and make your own high performance jet at home, and to localize every critical component.

In a way, the PAF embraced the logic of those who spearheaded our nuclear program in the 1970s, i.e. trust no one, and employ a deterrent.

So, is it ambitious? Yes. Is it difficult? Yes.

That said, there are places where Pakistan can learn a lot about it. You have Brazil, it knows a lot about aircraft supply chain management. There is also Ukraine, which knows gas turbines and engine technology. And finally, there's South Africa, which tried making a next gen jet (in the 1980s this was the 4 / 4.5 gen Carver), and that too 100% local, so it has a lot of expertise and lessons.

You also lack any counter incentive in Pakistan. In India, you have multiple factions jockeying to sell imports, which negatively can affect homegrown work. That's not there in Pakistan.

In Pakistan, it's basically Azm or nothing. So it will move forward. There'll be delays, issues, etc, but in the end, the payoff is really, really huge.

You develop a gas turbine industry which will cut imports and drive high value exports.

You develop a composites fabrication industry that will drive high value exports.

You expand the engineering design and testing base, which, again, will drive exports.

Those exports will bring dollars, and we can really put that towards nation building while also meeting our national defence needs.

Plus, we need to have some faith as well. If we put in all of the effort, and for the right reasons, we can also expect good things. It's in our beliefs.

Now or Never, Direct Action, Eat Grass, Swift Retort etc. always pay off for Pak....

Work is at fast pace. We shall see it much earlie than 2030.

Insha'Allah TFX and Azm will fly together in a "closed loop feedback" manner....

 

[messiach]

Exciting.

Now or Never, Direct Action, Eat Grass, Swift Retort etc. always pay off for Pak....


Insha'Allah TFX and Azm will fly together in a "closed loop feedback" manner....