Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[mshan44]

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[sparten]

Work is at fast pace. We shall see it much earlie than 2030.

Does this mean PAF has gone all in on AZM? They were not before.

 

[denel]

Janes Mil Balance notes use of U(pgraded)-Darter which is nothing more than upgraded V3C. Is it operational of M3/5 still or retired?

 

[khanasifm]

Janes Mil Balance notes use of U(pgraded)-Darter which is nothing more than upgraded V3C. Is it operational of M3/5 still or retired?

Paf mirages ? No evidence to support mirage 3s with radar has Lima and non radar ones older papa that’s it

 

[denel]

Paf mirages ? No evidence to support mirage 4 with radar has Lima and non radar ones older papa that’s it

Yes, i was a bit surprised when i read mil balance 2018; if you check it it notes U-Darter

 

[Dreamer.]

Janes Mil Balance notes use of U(pgraded)-Darter which is nothing more than upgraded V3C. Is it operational of M3/5 still or retired?

Pardon my ignorance, but what is V3C?
As for Darters with Mirages, the rumours have been on internet for ages but no idea if it's a fact.

 

[denel]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is V3C?
As for Darters with Mirages, the rumours have been on internet for ages but no idea if it's a fact.

V3C was a further longer range version of the 3rd gen Darter v3b with some more mods; A-Darter is the newer replacement which has been certified for use; both Brazil and SAAF will be using them on the Gripens.

 

[khanasifm]

V3C was a further longer range version of the 3rd gen Darter v3b with some more mods; A-Darter is the newer replacement which has been certified for use; both Brazil and SAAF will be using them on the Gripens.

V3 kurki were just copy of matra550 French dogfight missiles

 

[denel]

V3 kurki were just copy of matra550 French dogfight missiles

View attachment 584698

Actually not correct on all accounts; the image information is wrong. V1 was derivative of 550 not AIM series - it's head of that of AIM9B - but there were serious problems with IR differentiation and highly prone to errors. An improved version using a later 550 and a totally new head came out as V3A. This is where 550 commonality ends. V3B Kukri improved the seeker envelope and motor, fuze, explosive but still it was very disappointing performance; there were some components from Shafrir-2. V3C (U-Darter) was redesigned across the board and comparable to Magic 2/AIM9L including dual moving canards; both V3B and V3C tied to HMDs on our F1/M3/Cheetah; at the time, neither French or Americans had put HMD systems.

My first ever integration work of HMD was on V3C (U-Darter) on Cheetah.
Hope this clarifies it.

 

[khanasifm]

Actually not correct on all accounts; the image information is wrong. V1 was derivative of 550 not AIM series - it's head of that of AIM9B - but there were serious problems with IR differentiation and highly prone to errors. An improved version using a later 550 and a totally new head came out as V3A. This is where 550 commonality ends. V3B Kukri improved the seeker envelope and motor, fuze, explosive but still it was very disappointing performance; there were some components from Shafrir-2. V3C (U-Darter) was redesigned across the board and comparable to Magic 2/AIM9L including dual moving canards; both V3B and V3C tied to HMDs on our F1/M3/Cheetah; at the time, neither French or Americans had put HMD systems.

My first ever integration work of HMD was on V3C (U-Darter) on Cheetah.
Hope this clarifies it.

Yes South African were first to go with hmd or sight and I think Sweden were first with operational data link on darkens or something

They use to have a cover which use to hide the data link panel when aircraft was on ground

 

[messiach]

No.

Does this mean PAF has gone all in on AZM? They were not before.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

No.

I think it means the PAF isn't going to get an off-the-shelf fighter from abroad; it's continued procurement and improvements of JF-17s, and later, procurement of FGFA via Project Azm. The only thing to 'foil' this plot is the procurement of additional F-16s, but that depends on many 'ifs' and 'buts.'

 

[GriffinsRule]

This might deserve a new thread of its own, but since we are discussing the South African missile pedigree, I figured it might be good to share the latest article about Denel Dynamics missiles from the Nov AFM issue. It will also make clear the differences between the missiles etc, and yes the U-Darter has been retired from mid-2000s or earlier looks like. Only including the AAM and Raptor portions of the article. A-Darter seems like a very good replacement of both AIM-9L on the F-16s and PL-5 on the JF-17

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South Africa's air-launched advances by Guy Martin

For a small developing country, South Africa has long punched above its weight when it comes to guided weapons. In the 1980s and early 1990s, it even flirted with intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), but post-democracy it focused on anti-tank guided missiles, surface-to-air missiles and guided bombs, among others.

South Africa’s development of air-launched weapons stretches back more than half a century. In 1969, what would become Kentron (and subsequently Denel Dynamics) began development of the V3A Kukri heat-seeking missile, which entered service in small numbers on the South African Air Force’s (SAAF’s) Mirage IIIs and F1s in the 1970s. It was innovative in that the seeker head was linked to a helmet mounted sight, which used LEDs and lasers. Such technology later found its way to the Saab Gripen and Eurofighter Typhoon.

The V3A evolved into the improved V3B, which entered SAAF service at the end of the 1970s, before being replaced from 1986 by the larger and further refined V3C Darter, and later the U-Darter. For beyond-visual range (BVR) engagements, Kentron (with assistance from Israel) developed the radar guided V4 or R-Darter, which was fitted to Atlas Cheetah C fighters between 1995 and 2008. It also featured the ability to be cued by helmet-mounted sight and had a lock-on after launch (LOAL) capability.

The R-Darter was retired with the Cheetah fleet and by the time the Gripen had entered service in 2008, new missiles were needed. The Diehl Defence IRIS-T short-range weapon was ordered as a stopgap while Denel Dynamics developed the V3E Agile Darter (A-Darter), a 12-mile (20km) range heat-seeking missile. To reduce development costs, South Africa partnered with Brazil on the R3.6bn (£206m) project, with a substantial portion funded by the South American country. Brazil’s Avibras company helped develop the rocket motor, Opto Eletrônica assisted with the seeker head and Mectron (now part of Odebrecht Defense and Technology) brought experience as the manufacturer of all Brazil’s missiles. Development had begun under Project Assegai in 1995, but funding cuts put development on hold until Brazil joined the programme in 2006.

The A-Darter is typical of modern fifth generation short-range air-to-air missiles (AAMs), with a length of 9ft 9in (2.98m) and weight of 205lb (93kg). It is steered by thrust vector controls, allowing it to manoeuvre at more than 85g (compared with the 50 of the V3C, for example). The use of smokeless propellant makes it harder to detect on launch and during flight. Maximum speed is around Mach 3.

Target designation can be either through the launch aircraft’s radar, the missile’s seeker head or by helmet-mounted sight (the SAAF uses the Cobra helmet-mounted display on its Gripens). A high look angle means it can engage targets next to or even behind the launch aircraft (track rate is 120° and look angle/target recognition 180°). LOAL (with an inertial measurement unit providing midcourse guidance) allows the missile to engage targets beyond infrared detection range. A two-colour seeker (short and medium-range infrared) and decoy rejection software means the missile is highly resistant to jamming.

Development of the A-Darter has been somewhat protracted, with test firings only starting in 2010 and product baseline established in 2018, paving the way for industrialisation and manufacturing (several years late).

The SAAF placed a R939m (£53m) production contract with Denel for the missile in March 2015, with the first four trainer missiles scheduled for delivery in the 2018-19 financial year and the final batch of operational missiles scheduled for delivery in the 2021 calendar year.

The A-Darter was due to be integrated onto both the SAAF’s Hawk and Gripen platforms, but it appears funding constraints will mean the weapon will only be carried by the SAAF’s 26 Gripen C/D jets. In Brazil, the A-Darter is expected to equip the air force’s 36 new Gripen E/F fighters, with production of Brazilian missiles due to take place at a new facility in São José dos Campos. Three years ago, Denel was awarded a R358m (£20.5m) contract to integrate the missile onto Brazil’s Gripens – the country’s F-5M

The A-Darter is a viable alternative to Western and Eastern competitors in the infrared guided and A-1M aircraft use other missiles. short-range AAM (SRAAM) market. Its main competitors include the well established AIM- 9X, Python 5, IRIS-T, AA-11 (R-73 Archer), and ASRAAM. Similar competitors include the MICA (which was the first Western AAM to use thrust vectoring), and China’s PL-10E. While the SRAAM market is relatively crowded, the A-Darter is a good International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR)-free alternative that can easily be integrated onto Gripen and Hawk platforms, although integration with other platforms is relatively straightforward as the missile uses common LAU-7 type launchers that are compatible with the Sidewinder and Mil Std 1553 databus systems.

Now that production is under way, the A-Darter is available for export, with initial estimates suggesting 100-200 missiles could be exported, which would more than pay for development costs. Saab already markets the A-Darter as a standard option on the Gripen C/D and Gripen E/F. Brazil and South Africa will share export sales, with some international interest being expressed. In the meantime, Denel Dynamics is working on upgrades and refinements to the missile.

Marlin
The SAAF does not have a beyond-visual range (BVR) missile at present, but this may change with the development of the 62-mile (100km) range Marlin radar-guided missile, being pursued by Denel Dynamics under an Armscor technology demonstrator contract.

This is proceeding well, with a successful test launch engaging a manoeuvring target. Marlin uses a dual-pulse rocket and has an estimated top speed of Mach 4. It’s envisaged that it will be developed into an all-weather surface-to-air missile, which could be used in the same naval role as Denel’s surface to- air Umkhonto (Spear). Denel Dynamics is talking to a foreign partner about development of the air-to-air Marlin, which will be used by the SAAF and the partner nation’s air force. The missile will then be marketed as an air defence product on fighter aircraft.

Raptor
Denel Dynamics’ predecessor Kentron built up extensive experience with guided weapons in the 1980s and began development of the MUlti-Purpose Stand-Off Weapon (MUPSOW) jet-powered cruise missile, Torgos long-range precision-guided munition, rocket-boosted Mk82 Guided Boosted Bomb and Boosted Anti-Radar Bomb. These projects never made it far, mainly due to funding cuts after 1990. However, its H-2 TV-guided glide bomb was far more successful. Developed in the 1980s, this 37-mile (60km) range weapon had a TV seeker that could lock onto a target, and the weapon could be handed over to another aircraft up to 125 miles (200km) away. The H-2 was then developed into the Raptor (used by the SAAF on its Mirage F1s and Buccaneers) and further improved Raptor II. The latter has been exported to Algeria, with 50 missiles delivered in 2008, and Pakistan (as the H-4 SOW).

The Raptor II has several guidance options, such as GNSS/INS for fire-and-forget attacks, or low-light TV or infrared (with the operator designating the precise point of impact via an auto-tracker), and the target can be changed in flight. The 2,645lb (1,200kg) weapon is fitted with a 1,323lb (600kg) penetration or fragmentation warhead and has a circular error probability of 10ft (3m). A rocket motor gives a range of more than 80 miles (130km). Denel Dynamics subsequently began work on the Raptor III with a range of 186 miles (300km), which was unveiled in September 2014. The Raptor II is no longer available, although Denel Dynamics still supports the weapon.

Denel Dynamics has long dominated South Africa’s guided weapons market, but a new entrant is Milkor, which has moved from manufacturing grenade launchers to UAVs, armoured vehicles, patrol boats and now guided weapons. The company is working on a 27lb (12kg) unpowered laser-guided bomb for its UAV range. Development should be completed by 2020, with moving target tests by the end of the year. Milkor’s largest UAV, the 40ft (12m) wingspan MA380, will be able to carry two of the weapons.

 

[denel]

Yes South African were first to go with hmd or sight and I think Sweden were first with operational data link on darkens or something

They use to have a cover which use to hide the data link panel when aircraft was on ground

Yes, it was hms not hmd, my typo. two keys are next door.

 

[denel]

Old photo of H2 riding on F1AZ during Angola ops.