Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Irfan Baloch]

I you haven't learned to appreciate the dutch in south africa.
These people can and will do business at any rate, and in any conditions.
Very pragmatic, and accommodating people.

you are correct that I don't know much about them, other than that they are top tier ruthlessly effective mercenaries, racist to the core and very industrial and tenacious right from the days of their sea piracy and building the dam to hold back the sea and beat off the Brits by flooding the country and then pumping out the water again.

its good to know if their dealings are pure business
but how good are they in terms of their military technology?

good as in quality control (covers good engineering, reliability and functionality)
good as in technology level and expertise, are they as good as their Western European cousins?

 

[Sinnerman108]

you are correct that I don't know much about them, other than that they are top tier ruthlessly effective mercenaries, racist to the core and very industrial and tenacious right from the days of their sea piracy and building the dam to hold back the sea and beat off the Brits by flooding the country and then pumping out the water again.

its good to know if their dealings are pure business
but how good are they in terms of their military technology?

good as in quality control (covers good engineering, reliability and functionality)
good as in technology level and expertise, are they as good as their Western European cousins?

See @denel response.
I have worked with many people from SA.
and I continue to do business with them.

Think of SA, as a very pragmatic bridge to their otherwise stiff european cousins.

Less Bla Bla, more work.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Can you believe it they steals mining scholarships meant for civilians and bring mil personnel to study. Heavens sake what have they got to do with mining degrees? Last time i checked when at Wits, there were over 20+ all over the age of 45+ with their wives - if that is not stealing from younger generation for whom these were meant for.

Many states have stopped our guys for LEA matters due to this shit.

 

[denel]

you are correct that I don't know much about them, other than that they are top tier ruthlessly effective mercenaries, racist to the core and very industrial and tenacious right from the days of their sea piracy and building the dam to hold back the sea and beat off the Brits by flooding the country and then pumping out the water again.

its good to know if their dealings are pure business
but how good are they in terms of their military technology?

good as in quality control (covers good engineering, reliability and functionality)
good as in technology level and expertise, are they as good as their Western European cousins?

Top notch in terms of technology. unlike americans we dont make too much noise. US came to us for mine proof vehicles and entire generation is based on our vehicles; similarly for other technologies e.g. comms, AAMs, SAms.

dont say dutch here. we broke that connection over 500yrs back. not at all same people.

 

[Incog_nito]

How many EA birds are to be transitioned? There were supposed to be around 70+; only 30 odd is being reported; will the others be knocked down for parts if at all salvagable?

I guess you picked up in between lines. PAF will use the 30 for flying roles and will acquire more under the table for spares.

 

[mshan44]

 

[denel]

View attachment 564738

Man, seeing a M3 photo is like seeing an first love.. always brings a lot of emotions.

 

[FuturePAF]

Top notch in terms of technology. unlike americans we dont make too much noise. US came to us for mine proof vehicles and entire generation is based on our vehicles; similarly for other technologies e.g. comms, AAMs, SAms.

dont say dutch here. we broke that connection over 500yrs back. not at all same people.

Considering Pakistan is setting up a RD-93 Overhaul facility in Pakistan, and Atlas tested the IAR-95 (rd-33 derivative) on the Atlas Cheetah D #847; how much do you think the development cost would be to the PAF to partner with Denel and restart the Cheetah D program? It seems Denel could get a lot of work out of upgrading the PAF mirages structurally. Furthermore, how much more would it cost to go the #847 route, and integrate the rd-93 engine, considering they have already done most of the research already?

If spread over the current 6 squadrons; 100 odd air frames, would the costs be justified if the planes are required to serve on for the next 10-15 years? (PAF would also have to upgrade the avionics in order to see the full benefit, but that is a separate issue)


The #847 with the Russian Engine
http://www.rodbearden.com/South Africa 2018/SAAF Museum Swartkop/Atlas Cheetah D 847 1.html

http://www.rodbearden.com/South Africa 2018/SAAF Museum Swartkop/Atlas Cheetah D 847 4.html

 

[mshan44]

 

[araz]

Considering Pakistan is setting up a RD-93 Overhaul facility in Pakistan, and Atlas tested the IAR-95 (rd-33 derivative) on the Atlas Cheetah D #847; how much do you think the development cost would be to the PAF to partner with Denel and restart the Cheetah D program? It seems Denel could get a lot of work out of upgrading the PAF mirages structurally. Furthermore, how much more would it cost to go the #847 route, and integrate the rd-93 engine, considering they have already done most of the research already?

If spread over the current 6 squadrons; 100 odd air frames, would the costs be justified if the planes are required to serve on for the next 10-15 years? (PAF would also have to upgrade the avionics in order to see the full benefit, but that is a separate issue)


The #847 with the Russian Engine
http://www.rodbearden.com/South Africa 2018/SAAF Museum Swartkop/Atlas Cheetah D 847 1.html

http://www.rodbearden.com/South Africa 2018/SAAF Museum Swartkop/Atlas Cheetah D 847 4.html

I dont think the effort is worth the benefit. I suspect most M3/5s will be gone in the next 3-5 years and a couple of squadrons may be retained for specialized roles and a few cacooned away for emergencies. If our finances improve we may increase the number of JFts we require by ramping up production. There is talk of acquiring another platform but at the moment in my humble opinion it is nothing more than talk.
A

 

[denel]

Considering Pakistan is setting up a RD-93 Overhaul facility in Pakistan, and Atlas tested the IAR-95 (rd-33 derivative) on the Atlas Cheetah D #847; how much do you think the development cost would be to the PAF to partner with Denel and restart the Cheetah D program? It seems Denel could get a lot of work out of upgrading the PAF mirages structurally. Furthermore, how much more would it cost to go the #847 route, and integrate the rd-93 engine, considering they have already done most of the research already?

If spread over the current 6 squadrons; 100 odd air frames, would the costs be justified if the planes are required to serve on for the next 10-15 years? (PAF would also have to upgrade the avionics in order to see the full benefit, but that is a separate issue)


The #847 with the Russian Engine
http://www.rodbearden.com/South Africa 2018/SAAF Museum Swartkop/Atlas Cheetah D 847 1.html

http://www.rodbearden.com/South Africa 2018/SAAF Museum Swartkop/Atlas Cheetah D 847 4.html

Hi
I do concur with Araz; the time for this venture is long gone 22yrs back. It is time to focus on next generation.

 

[JohnWick]

View attachment 564738

Still better than tejas

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi
I do concur with Araz; the time for this venture is long gone 22yrs back. It is time to focus on next generation.

Thanks Denel and Araz. I just wanted to flush out the issue so it can be put to rest. Its all onwards to More JFT, Project Azm, and UCAVs.

 

[araz]

Thanks Denel and Araz. I just wanted to flush out the issue so it can be put to rest. Its all onwards to More JFT, Project Azm, and UCAVs.

Welcome. The delta conundrum needs to be seen in the perspective of PAF's quest to acquire the M2Ks. We made 3 attempts and the best one was in the 90s when our friend MuradK was involved. Had it not been for Zardari sticking his dirty fingers along with the French Sarkozy we might have even acquired it. In the early 2000 as a sign of desperation we approached the French again for 59 units but the offer was withdrawn by them and we were pushed toward the really expensive Rafale which was beyond our means. I guess we were too far advanced in the JFT project to consider buying the whole M2K assembly line in one big deal which might have been cost prohibitive but have given us the French version of the JFT experience. The M53 were old and cost prohibitive but could we have negotiated for M88s on the M2ks and more importantly would the Ffrench have agreed? I dont know the answer to that. I do however think PAF contiues to look for 3 squadrons of Deltas/Multirole platforms.
A

 

[ANG]

Hi, the Cheetah which is a derivative of the Kfir, and the Kfir is still alive and kicking. The airframe of PAF's Mirages can be brought to 0 hours and modified. But is it is a matter of cost. $$$!!!

//www.janes.com/article/89345/paris-air-show-2019-iai-offering-kfir-ng-to-colombia-expects-to-return-sri-lanka-and-ecuador-jets-to-service