Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Safriz]

Hijara Anti Armour bomb .....

With this many anti Armour bombs per Mirage, we wont need Nar for Armoured brigades i guess?

 

[HRK]

With this many anti Armour bombs per Mirage, we wont need Nar for Armoured brigades i guess?

both have different use for different occasion this one is fight the war Nasr is to end the conventional war

 

[aziqbal]

Mirage has been great test bed for many new weapons

Mirage received IFR way before JF17 Block II

may lessons and experiences gained

still a good fighter but the spare parts are getting more and more expensive and Pakistan still pays for expensive Dassault call outs for repairs, which needs to stop

JF17 all the way

 

[ice_man]

Mirage has been great test bed for many new weapons

Mirage received IFR way before JF17 Block II

may lessons and experiences gained

still a good fighter but the spare parts are getting more and more expensive and Pakistan still pays for expensive Dassault call outs for repairs, which needs to stop

JF17 all the way

JF17 is a good interceptor and a good Air Defence fighter. But hardly close to a mirage III strike aircraft yet. Hopefully by the next block it can be more of a strike aircraft.

before you start jumping up and down. the point is simple JF17 can carry 1/3 of the payload of a mirage V.

So ya JF17 is good very good but still not ready to be a main strike package fighter.

sadly, we have limited options when it comes to main strike aircrafts as Mirage 2000s are with India and US won't sell us anything major like the Hornet F18s . and the eurofighter is too expensive.

 

[princefaisal]

JF17 is a good interceptor and a good Air Defence fighter. But hardly close to a mirage III strike aircraft yet. Hopefully by the next block it can be more of a strike aircraft.

before you start jumping up and down. the point is simple JF17 can carry 1/3 of the payload of a mirage V.

So ya JF17 is good very good but still not ready to be a main strike package fighter.

sadly, we have limited options when it comes to main strike aircrafts as Mirage 2000s are with India and US won't sell us anything major like the Hornet F18s . and the eurofighter is too expensive.

Max payload capacity of Mirage V is 4000 kg with Mach 2.2 speed while J-10C has a max payload capacity of 6000 kg with Mach 2 speed. So Mirages should be replaced with J-10Cs.

 

[valkyr_96]

Mirage has been great test bed for many new weapons

Mirage received IFR way before JF17 Block II

may lessons and experiences gained

still a good fighter but the spare parts are getting more and more expensive and Pakistan still pays for expensive Dassault call outs for repairs, which needs to stop

JF17 all the way

But JF 17 cannot carry a lot of the munitions used by the Mirages.

 

[MIRauf]

F-16s be quicker option to go with and there is infrastructure built up to support it, training is readily available and probably handful of Pilots with JF-17 Squad that have flown it. J-10C would take longer then F-16 to be fully operational but would be less hassle free.

Only Problem with F-16s is that if PAF selects F-16 ( block xyz ) and Lockheed hands over the production line to India.

 

[nomi007]

why did PAF not got canard mirage III

 

[khanasifm]

Jf beats mirage in range due to turbofan engine vs fuel guzzler turbojet

Carries more load

Is far easier to maintain and fly

There is no comparison

 

[khanasifm]

 

[Ali_Baba]

Twin Racks for the JF17 SD10A launcher have not turned up in PAF just yet. I hope they do, but i think it is still a Work In progress for the PAF.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Many PDF members had totally written off Mirages almost a decade ago, but PAF knew what it was doing with them both in terms of upgrades and use. Our 50 year old mirages proved to be a lot better than IAF's relatively new SU30 MKI's which ran away from the battle, while Mirages not only stood their ground but achieved their targets. The gun cam/ hud videos are being used to demonstrate to other pilots how to lock and destroy your targets.

Looks like cluster munitions

can someone please id the ordinance on this mirage here?

 

[FuturePAF]

The recent event of February 2019 have demonstrated the PAF need to stay capable of engaging in not only air to air combat but air to ground strike, with the threat of enemy air defense ever present. After this brief but eventful episode, the humiliated Indians have re-doubled their plans to acquire modern air defenses, as well as modern war planes. The PAF has always sought to maintain the qualitative edge with better pilot training and exchange programs with friendly air forces. Despite this, there comes a point where our well trained pilots need an aircraft that is at least adequate enough to allow our pilots to face modern threats and still complete its mission. The mirage III and V of the PAF are still better suited for the strike role then the more modern JF-17, if only for their ability to carry heavier loads.

Due to the current economic crisis, the PAF will continue to rely on these aircraft to carry out strikes in time of conflict. In order to assure it will be able to do so in the face of the S-400 and Rafale Fighters, the PAF should consider upgrading these planes soon. The recent purchase of 30 Mirage Vs from Egypt includes a few Horus Mirages. These were upgraded in 2008-2010 with the following features:

A modern Pulse Doppler radar (RC-400)
HMD
Mission pods
MAWS
Night strike capability (visible and infrared optronics)
modern avionics overhaul (hopefully this includes a modern mission computer and modern glass cockpit)
inertial navigation equipement
on board and ground-based digital processing systems (for weapon systems and mission planning systems, respectively)


This is a decent upgrade package, but the PAF may need capabilities beyond these to allow the planes to stay relevant for the next 20 years. It should consider implementing the following on all flight-worthy mirages in its fleet:

Structural improvements (fixed canard and zeroing the air frame while strengthening the wings by selective use of composites)
Upgrading the engine (from the Atar-9c to not just the Atar9K50 but the Super Atar)
A Modern EW suite to include a modern jamming pod
A modern CNI suite (communication, Navigation, Identification) with modern Datalinks
single piece front canopy for better visibility
HOTAS
as well as other upgrades featured on the Cheetah and similar aircraft like the Kfir Block 60

Pakistan's good relations with Denel of South Africa, and it would make it a lot easier to approach them to consultant on applying these upgrades to our mirages in short order. Denel has gone through all the R&D, and even have aircraft in mothballs ready to sell. It behooves the PAF to look into it. PAF already has has the engine maintenance facilities at Kamra ready to do the upgrades on the Atar (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/engi...ost-1942255)(https://www.pac.org.pk/atar.html), and it has trained technicians waiting for work. We have a mirage rebuild facility, so we can carry out air-frame upgrades in house. Also this would be a great project for Pakistan to work on right away at the joint Sino-Pak Aviation city. We could make the compressor blades for the upgraded engines, the radars, avionics, pods, EW equipment, communication equipment, HMD, and all other small components, all in Pakistan. Upgrading nearly 200 planes, along with maintaining the JF-17s will keep Kamra going for the next 10 years, all allowing skills to be built up while we transition to project AZM.

Upgrading 25% of the Fleet to house the air cooled LKF601E AESA radar will allow these strike planes to use the radars ground mapping capabilities to not only fly safely under enemy radar and over terrain, but to positively identify enemy targets quickly and get battle damage assessments in one pass. The Aesa Radar would allow the mirage to have EW support when operating alone and facing down enemy air defenses (Sams and aircraft). The remainder of the fleet can house the KLJ-7 radars coming off the JF-17s being upgraded with the LKF601E AESA radar, and allow the PAF to not waste perfectly good radars. Datalinks would share data from the Aesa equipped aircraft to their non-Aesa teammates.

Finally, another major upgrade that we should implement is modernizing the engine. The engine doesn't need to be replaced, but components can be swapped out for more modern ones to increase the thrust significantly. The current Atar-9C on the PAF mirage has a max thrust of 59KN while the mirage 2000's M53 engine has a max thrust of 95kn. The PAF could re-engine the plane with the RD-93/Ws-13 or even the WS-19 under development, but that would slow down upgrades and cost huge amounts (not to mention the South Africans tried on a Russian engine similar to the Rd-93 and failed to make it work). While not nearly as powerful, simply upgrading the engine is a more cost effective manner of reaching close to the thrust of the modern turbofans. The south Africans upgraded their Atar-9C to the Atar-9K50 standard and achieved a max thrust of 70kn. On one experimental aircraft they went one step further, and implemented the Super Atar upgrade, where it is said they saw a further 12% increase in thrust; 78 kn. This is a nearly 33% increase in thrust, and would allow these upgraded mirages to carry heavier loads and go further; so they can strike deeper and harder then ever before.

An upgrade of this magnitude would give the PAF as much breathing room in the A2G role as the JF-17 has given in the A2A role. Securing this capability in house would buy the nation time to build up its economy without skimping on defense.

 

[khansaheeb]

Pakistan should be planning to retire the Mirages, forget upgrades.

 

[denel]

Thank you; we were looking for this back 20+ yrs back.

unfortunately the time is long gone and complete opportunities a long lost dream. Truly breaks my heart even today what could have been....