Call for jihad in the Ukraine

[Declein]

East ukraine is already lost.Any further attempt by means of arms and extreme actions ,pogroms ,and you will have russian army in East Ukraine. I don't expect them entering central or western ukraine though.There is lack of support there for Russia.

And why do you think that the USA would consider that a bad thing, in a cynical way? I mean Russian army in E Ukraine. Their biggest problem now is EU not having a coherent policy towards Russia, plus Obama being undecided. An invasion would solve all that.

Think about it: E Ukraine isn't Crimea, it can't be quarantined be holding two roads. It also doesn't have the same Russian majority as Crimea - meaning many will fight against the Russian troops, adding to the numbers coming from W Ukraine. We're talking Cecenia, only 10 times worst.

Add to this NATO weapons and training for the W Ukrainians coming through, the galvanization of the EU countries around USA, the immediate sanctions that would obliterate the Russian economy and probably new independence movements in the Caucasus.

But ultimately, it's all about the Ukrainians, and if they decide to fight or not...and the sad part is that it's not in EU's or USA's interest to decimate Russia..

 

[vostok]

I agree, for once, with you. But only on the first part. Russia invading Ukraine is a giant trap for Putin and would crush Russia in the long term, while at the same time crush any sanction-opposition in EU.

What I don't agree: come May elections and the installment of a legitimate government (doesn't matter if E Ukraine/Russia don't accept it) and things will get bloody..real bloody, since the government will represent the will of the people.

My guess is Martial Law immediately after the new government is elected, followed by decisive actions in the East. After, Putin can invade if he wants, he'd be only digging his own grave.

Why elections on May 25 will be legitimate ? Who said it? Junta seized power by force and the election on May 25, the same illegal , as does the seizure of power . Junta beat , intimidate , shoot those presidential candidates who disagree with it . Yesterday Simonenko withdrew his candidacy - the candidate of the Communist Party , because his car was shot by unknown . Thus, people have to choose between "moderate" faschists and ultra-fascists . Russia has nothing to do with it . We blame those who supported Maidan and junta .
Nazis , terrorists, " jihadis ", punitive batallions , mercenaries , death squads - that's who support the junta's power in Ukraine. In such circumstances, there can not be legitimate elections .

 

[Declein]

Why elections on May 25 will be legitimate ? Who said it? Hutna seized power by force and the election on May 25, the same illegal , as does the seizure of power . Junta beat , intimidate , shoot those presidential candidates who disagree with it . Yesterday Simonenko withdrew his candidacy - the candidate of the Communist Party , because his car was shot by unknown . Thus, people have to choose between "moderate" faschists and ultra-fascists . Russia has nothing to do with it . We blame those who supported Maidan and junta .
Nazis , terrorists, " jihadis ", punitive batallions , mercenaries , death squads - that's who support the junta's power in Ukraine. In such circumstances, there can not be legitimate elections .

It doesn't matter what you or Russia thinks. It's about the public perception in the EU.

 

[vostok]

It doesn't matter what you or Russia thinks. It's about the public perception in the EU.

And what does the EU? No one in this world has magical power to turn illegal elections into legitimate.
We make things simple - Novorossia will get independence. Ant at the remaining territory of Ukraine we let them do what they want, let them choose for president even fascist, evan Martian - it would no longer be our problem.

 

[mandrom]

Think about it: E Ukraine isn't Crimea, it can't be quarantined be holding two roads. It also doesn't have the same Russian majority as Crimea - meaning many will fight against the Russian troops, adding to the numbers coming from W Ukraine. We're talking Cecenia, only 10 times worst.

Actually, having spoken to east ukrainians , I will say this majority are pro-russia,especially after what neo-nazis did in odessa.A lot of east. Initially many were neutral.But the junta has shot itself in the foot. And most of the rebels are former ukrainian army,miners and police. Already Odessa,kharkov is seething with anti-junta sentiment and west ukrainian units are being brought in to control that area.

@vostok is east ukrainian.

Truth about situation in Ukraine | Facebook

But ultimately, it's all about the Ukrainians, and if they decide to fight or not...and the sad part is that it's not in EU's or USA's interest to decimate Russia..

It is in their plans to decimate Russia slowily.That is why USA shelters Chechen rebel heads .

You are polish. Don't have dreams of destroying Russia.Because the last when you attacked/ occupied moscow in time of troubles ,the russians ultimately occupied your nation for more than 200 years.

adding to the numbers coming from W Ukraine. We're talking Cecenia, only 10 times worst.

Add to this NATO weapons and training for the W Ukrainians coming through, the galvanization of the EU countries around USA, the immediate sanctions that would obliterate the Russian economy and probably new independence movements in the Caucasus.

This will probably trigger a world war or conquering of Eastern Europe by Russia which includes Poland,if USA and Germany back down. Do you want the russian boot on your polack head again for 200 years? Already Poland was involved in helping this svoboda affliates in Euromaidan. In a conventional war in Eastern Europe ,Russia will have a lot superior capability ,compared to NATO whose logistics lines are stretched.

 

[vostok]

Actually, having spoken to east ukrainians , I will say this majority are pro-russia,especially after what neo-nazis did in odessa.A lot of east. Initially many were neutral.But the junta has shot itself in the foot. And most of the rebels are former ukrainian army,miners and police. Already Odessa,kharkov is seething with anti-junta sentiment and west ukrainian units are being brought in to control that area.

@vostok is east ukrainian.

They began the destruction of Ukraine in November on Maidan and ended at the 2nd of May in Odessa and 9th of May in Mariupol.
Ukraine, which was formed as a result of criminal collapse of the USSR no longer exists. There no more legitimate authority. Population of the former eastern Ukraine is no longer associated with Kiev. People take their destiny into their own hands.

 

[Declein]

This will probably trigger a world war or conquering of Eastern Europe by Russia which includes Poland,if USA and Germany back down. Do you want the russian boot on your polack head again for 200 years? Already Poland was involved in helping this svoboda affliates in Euromaidan. In a conventional war in Eastern Europe ,Russia will have a lot superior capability ,compared to NATO whose logistics lines are stretched.

I'm not Polish.
Judging by your response it seems I made a mistake trying to debate with you in a sensible way, and that you are no more than a child (or an adult with a child's mind) that has the same level of political and world understanding as an schizophrenic hamster.

Therefore, please don;t quote me again.

@vostok again, it does not matter what you think, or if it's legitimate: what matters is how it's viewed. And no, your proposal is not acceptable, since it would create a dangerous precedent.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

1. Russia is not west. In past when they have faced with insurgency, they have successfully adopted kill everything that moves policy. Today Russia controls Chechenya and if Chechens try to rise up again, it could easily adopt old policy, this time justifying it under anti-terror ops.

2. GCC is extremely weak compared to Russia. Hardware matters only when skills of competing armies are same. Israel destroyed superior Arab miitary in 1967 and we did same with qualitatively superior Pakistani Army in 1971.

1. Russia is not west. In past when they have faced with insurgency, they have successfully adopted kill everything that moves policy. Today Russia controls Chechenya and if Chechens try to rise up again, it could easily adopt old policy, this time justifying it under anti-terror ops.

Russia has been in control of Chechnya ever since the Federation was founded. We do know as a matter of fact that Russia isn't the west, but at the same time, the Russians were defeated by these baboons in the first Chechen war. The question we should ask ourselves is would Russia face a threat by these rebels? I think the answer is YES.

Russia might also face another flex of rebellion by the Tatar population in Crimea as well.

2. GCC is extremely weak compared to Russia. Hardware matters only when skills of competing armies are same. Israel destroyed superior Arab miitary in 1967 and we did same with qualitatively superior Pakistani Army in 1971.

True, the GCC as a military block is in no way near to the Russians, bear in mind that one GCC State's military is different to another member-state GCC's military.

 

[mandrom]

They began the destruction of Ukraine in November on Maidan and ended at the 2nd of May in Odessa and 9th of May in Mariupol.
Ukraine, which was formed as a result of criminal collapse of the USSR no longer exists. There no more legitimate authority. Population of the former eastern Ukraine is no longer associated with Kiev. People take their destiny into their own hands.

I'm not Polish.
Judging by your response it seems I made a mistake trying to debate with you in a sensible way, and that you are no more than a child (or an adult with a child's mind) that has the same level of political and world understanding as an schizophrenic hamster.

Therefore, please don;t quote me again.

@vostok again, it does not matter what you think, or if it's legitimate: what matters is how it's viewed. And no, your proposal is not acceptable, since it would create a dangerous precedent.

Doesn't matter. Go ahead with your stupid ideas ,then see what russia does. Being pretty clear ,continue provoking Russia and the response will be swift and brutal. Likely you poles or east europeans will be left with no legs to stand on at all. And a coup d'tat is illegitimate.

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[Yzd Khalifa]

Russians effectively destroyed the chechen insurgency.Russia has done nothing due to GCC being protected by USA.The day USA weakens and leaves GCC to itself(which will happen in a matter of 5-10 years,looking at economic data of USA) ,then the fun for GCC will start.

The fun would start? On what grounds?

Also, the Russians were defeated in the First Chechen war:
First Chechen War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mandrom]

Russia might also face another flex of rebellion by the Tatar population in Crimea as well.

.

The fun would start? On what grounds?

Also, the Russians were defeated in the First Chechen war:
First Chechen War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Russians have crushed several chechen insurgencies in past 200 years. 1 defeat of russians vs several defeats of chechens .

The fun is pretty clear in previous statements.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Actually in some manner, strategic position of USA during Soviets was much stronger than today. Today it not only has to contend with Russia but with China too, who if left unchecked could develop capability to threaten USA's mainland in 35-40 years.

It cannot stand up to Russia because in doing so, it would waste its resources which could be used against China which is their more pressing need.



@Irajgholi

1.See above + countries really don't care much about couple of bomb blasts.

2. They are only country which could manufacture good quality ( compared to west ) weapons thus have ability to fight a protracted war.

Actually in some manner, strategic position of USA during Soviets was much stronger than today. Today it not only has to contend with Russia but with China too, who if left unchecked could develop capability to threaten USA's mainland in 35-40 years.

It cannot stand up to Russia because in doing so, it would waste its resources which could be used against China which is their more pressing need.

By now I guess the US might change its geo-political strategies, to adopt an aggressive Reagan-like doctrine to contain Russia. For China, and the power-on-the-rise India, I believe the US can live up with both of these states, but not Russia if it continues its provocative policies.

Russians have crushed several chechen insurgencies in past 200 years. 1 defeat of russians vs several defeats of chechens .

The fun is pretty clear in previous statements.

Fair enough, at the end of the day, a defeat is a defeat.

 

[jandk]

Regardless of the natural resources the GCC States have, Russia's act of war will get them nowhere but down in dumbs.

Take China's aggression against your own country, everybody condemned the move taken by the PRC.



KSA's budget is much lesser than Russia. 30% of the Saudi's defense budget goes unspent by the end of every year, while the Russians spend every penny they've got in hand.

I agree with you on the logistical nightmare the Russians will face in the event of launching an attack against a remote state.

GCC needs to militarize in the future in order to neutralize multiple threats. The US will not remain interested forever. As soon as you become dispensable (which will take some time), Russia can take action. You have to understand that Russia is not as affected by sanctions as some other countries. No country is willing to go to war with Russia (not even the US) over some dispensable Middle Eastern countries. Look at Syria for example.
PS: I don't wish for the destruction of your country. I am merely talking about possibilities.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Russians cossacks are known for combat skills and have been very successful in caucusian wars in past 200 years.



Bandar is CIA .Very close to Bush family.

Bandar was the head of the GiP

And the Bush family no longer has a say in American politics.

 

[vostok]

@vostok again, it does not matter what you think, or if it's legitimate: what matters is how it's viewed. And no, your proposal is not acceptable, since it would create a dangerous precedent.

Oh no. It does not matter exactly what you think, and the West in general. West is not the source of legitimacy of this or that government. The only source of legitimacy is the people. And if people are hungry for the independence of the former south-eastern Ukraine - this means independence is legitimate.
I am and another 20 million inhabitants of the former eastern Ukraine are the only source of legitimate power on our own land. Especially after the armed anti-constitutional coup in Kiev, which resets all the succession of power.
"dangerous precedent" - is exclusion Kosovo from Serbia, or the occupation of Iraq. And free will of the population - is just absolutely normal thing.