BREAKING: PAF base Mianwali under attack, suicide bombers and heavy weapons in use

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

Snakes are mere proxies. The hyenas are the ones pulling the strings, and they're at GHQ.

The forum looks pretty changed since I am visiting after quite a few years. Must say welcoming change.

 

[Enigma SIG]

The forum looks pretty changed since I am visiting after quite a few years. Must say welcoming change.

Beydari from beghairti I guess.

 

[VkdIndian]

ISPR has become expert in turning every sh!tfuckery into a success story.

It is not a recent developed trait. It has been the case since time immemorial. Has there been even one public acceptance of failure ever?
Everything has been a resounding success always. If there was ever a hint of failure, it was put on politicians or other factors. Without acknowledging that the politicians were the Establishment themselves or their prodigies.

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

It is not a recent developed trait. It has been the case since time immemorial. Has there been even one public acceptance of failure ever?
Everything has been a resounding success always. If there was ever a hint of failure, it was put on politicians or other factors. Without acknowledging that the politicians were the Establishment themselves or their prodigies.

Not to mention Indian army is no dfferent. It is a continental trait probably.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I hope they at least sack base commander or the schmuck who was responsible for base security.

Someone must be sacked for sure - and someone senior. Personally i think it has to be the ACM - everything rolls up to him and if he is not considering the security of a main operating base, then he is not doing his job properly. You cannot lose 4 F7PGs which are front line operational aircraft and pretend that everything is ok.

Those F7PGs are operational aircraft that will affect the defence posture of Pakistan.

All Airbases AND naval bases where there is equipment of single high value(planes, ships, long range SAMs) - must have their security reviewed and multilayer defences put in place - not just a "simple" wall that can be scaled with a ladder ..

 

[VkdIndian]

Not to mention Indian army is no dfferent.

Not in the same league as PA. All the wars were studied by a commision and most reports were made public. The mistakes made were laid out clearly.
However, on your side even 1971 was brushed under the carpet and the report was never made public.
Maybe, this is a topic for another thread and time.

At this moment, ISPR portraying the attack as a success, is nothing less than hilarious.

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

Not in the same league as PA. All the wars were studied by a commision and most reports were made public. The mistakes made were laid out clearly.
However, on your side even 1971 was brushed under the carpet and the report was never made public.
Maybe, this is a topic for another thread and time.

At this moment, ISPR portraying the attack as a success, is nothing less than hilarious.

PA also works a lot on mistakes and improving them. That is how SOPs work basically.
Indian army/air force tried to make 27th Feb a success, it was nothing less than hilarious.
Don't want to start a debate, just stating that facts that it happens on both sides. We have started admitting that recently, you may not have yet but will in future.
And this may be very natural response as well because militaries across the globe normally do not admit mistakes openly, it is a world norm. It is how it is. We point out the lapses because we support our respective militaries/soldiers and want the best for them.

 

[arjunk]

Not in the same league as PA. All the wars were studied by a commision and most reports were made public. The mistakes made were laid out clearly.
However, on your side even 1971 was brushed under the carpet and the report was never made public.
Maybe, this is a topic for another thread and time.

At this moment, ISPR portraying the attack as a success, is nothing less than hilarious.

The Indian Army does not meddle in domestic affairs, but its professionalism in combat (or other functions of an army) is lacking compared to the Pakistan Army. This is reflected in the atrociously high suicide and accident rate of the Indian Army.

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

Someone must be sacked for sure - and someone senior. Personally i think it has to be the ACM - everything rolls up to him and if he is not considering the security of a main operating base, then he is not doing his job properly. You cannot lose 4 F7PGs which are front line operation aircraft and pretend that everything is ok.

Those F7PGs are operational aircraft that will affect the defence posture of Pakistan.

All Airbases AND naval bases where there is equipment of single high value(planes, ships, long range SAMs) - must have their security reviewed and multilayer defences put in place - not just a "simple" wall that can be scaled with a ladder ..

I am not sure about ACM but I can assure you some will be sacked, probably the junior offrs and JCOs/NCOs on duty.

 

[VkdIndian]

Don't want to start a debate

Agree. It would derail this thread.

just stating that facts that it happens on both sides.

Agree again. The extent is more on your side. Examples are 1971 and Kargil. Both were much bigger debacles and operations compared to 26/11.
Let‘s leave it to right thread.

militaries across the globe normally do not admit mistakes

Most mature and responsible ones are investigated and analysed in detail. Was it done done for Kargil on your side?

professionalism in combat (or other functions of an army) is lacking compared to the Pakistan Army. This is reflected in the atrociously high suicide and accident rate of the Indian Army.

I disagree.

There have been ample studies to compare these aspects to other militaries and was found to be comparable to countires that make this data public. Let me check and post it here.
The difference is that, these are never allowed to go public in certain countries including Paksiatn.

Has there been no suicide or fratricide in PA, PN or PAF in last one year? Because I haven’t heard any news ever. Does it mean that these haven’t occurred?

 

[Zarvan]

Calling it a failed attack is shamelessness of epic proportions. They entered a bloody Air Base of a nuclear country. After so many attacks, fighting this war for past twenty years along with facing numerous attacks on our various military installations, we still miserably fail to secure our important locations.

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

Most mature and responsible ones are investigated and analysed in detail. Was it done done for Kargil on your side?

Yes, have you seen another Kargil?
There is a book written on Kargil by a retired Pakistani Major General, I would quote you if I recall its name, he mentions how post Kargil Pakistan Army investigated and analyzed things that went wrong in the op and corrected them, most of it was to do with inter & intra service communication.
Every incident is followed by detailed investigations and analysis, based on which fresh SOPs are crafted and acted upon, eventually making the situation better.
Our only difference with them is their interference in politics, apart from them PA is very professional and battle hardened, probably more than Indian counterparts, though India has an edge financially. Saying more professional because we have been fighting terror for more or less 2 decades, through these years we have lost and learnt a lot and have worked our way through SOPs eventually. Indian army no doubt is also professional but they have largely not have been in active war since Kargil. We on the other hand have been in active war more or less every 2-3 years.

 

[VkdIndian]

most of it was to do with inter & intra service communication.

Musharraf never allowed any formal investigation since he came to power.

The biggest mistake was not communication part but few people deciding to launch an operation without informing the PM. Communication was just tip of the iceberg and a very convenient scapegoat.

Our only difference with them is their interference in politics

They have controlled your nation for better part of your existence and you are saying as if it is a minor flaw. I guess software reset has been done, across the nation.

We on the other hand have been in active war more or less every 2-3 years.

Anti- terror ops are not war. War involves action against a worthy adversary. One who can test the limits of one’s capabilities. In the entire spectrum. Operations against non state actors doesn’t come in that category.

The discussion would get more animated with every post and derail the thread. May we keep it to appropriate thread?

 

[arjunk]

There’s no denying brother our role in 9/11 was the biggest recruiter.

Thanks to failed state narrative that led tribes to be misguided to believing killing civilian women and children is worth dying for

Prior that we never had awful suicide bombings anywhere in Pakistan we see now every day

Actually we did, especically during Cold War days when KGB and Afghan agencies would bomb and kill hundreds of Pakistanis.

. On the Afghans scum were anti Pakistani we’ve known this from the start. . But how do we then explain the marginalising and alienating of our tribal areas during 9/11 to the extent people are in armed rebellion? Something has happened to our people in this part country there they’ve not just miraculously woken up one morning and picked up guns against the state they were so loyal for.

Again, state has neglected building narratives and is instead building DHAs. Meanwhile anyone with nefarious designs can radicalise and indoctrinate these uneducated tribals.

 

[ghazi52]

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