Big Win- Indian Muslim Women(Supreme Court Declares triple talaq Practice 'Unconstitutional)

[padamchen]

@padamchen
Was your earlier account @vsdoc ?

Sigh that old fart's name again ...

I'm padamchen bro.

Cheers, Doc

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Reading most of Indians comments...what I gathers is sure many of them had suffered due to unfair/fair quota system given to ST/SC/OBC castes in India.

...at the same premise they want an end to the affirmative action or call it +ve discrimination(can't be a positive discrimination ever) but not calling for an end to the real problem....like calling for an end to the caste system, instead of calling for the end to the reservations....

...the problem lies here as mentioned earlier, it is like ending one problem by creating another set of problems...it comes full circle.

And the answer is there is no solution in sight....

There is a very simple solution. Make misrepresentation of caste completely legal and unpunishable. All problems will sort themselves out by themselves. Girls/Boys parents not agreeing? I am a brahmin/thakur/dalit from now on! So are my parents! Prove it otherwise! Thats it. Soon everyone will be a dalit in their earlier part of life and a Brahmin/Thakur afterwards. Caste will become meaningless. The biggest issues in India is that Indian law protects caste system!

 

[baajey]

In all likelihood, many of the minorities (ancestral Hindu converts) actually suffered themselves because of the caste system.

And are now having to share in the reparations.

Crazy.

Cheers, Doc

crazy it is.....but as @Black Mamba1 has rightly pointed out, we are in a lose-lose position here.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

The biggest issues in India is that Indian laws protects caste!

That's it..that's about it.

This is like innocent till proven guilty...has in the law. Or the onus of proof lies on the person accusing that he misrepresented it.

This is possible, at the same time it is like saying 'you go against the law' so as to prove that laws are faulty.

Hugely complex thing here...one reason Caste is still prevalent there as it is too complex to be dealt with, with the help of laws and amendments...as complex as the whole of India is...

 

[911]

I think bigger question is Are we as Indian citizens ready to let go this centuries old archaic categorization on lines of caste?
Our constitution doesn't discriminate citizens based on race or caste or religion, but we as society accept these lines. Once society ceases to discriminate, don't think we would require any directive from courts.

How about banning the caste based matrimonial industry?

How about banning caste based reservation everywhere?

Cheers, Doc

Not sure if our country's laws discriminate or not but they certainly categorize people based on caste. How are people going to stop categorization if the country itself recognizes people based on their caste, even if for a noble cause. There surely has to be a way to help the needy without actually having the need to evoke their caste. Just an observation, people who are casteist, tend to be fond of History a lot, because they feel superior for belonging to a particular caste. Not all of them of course. People are not going to forget about this caste thing magically unless its forced upon them. If even after 70 years we have debates on caste there is really something wrong not just in the people, because general human nature is same everywhere in similar circumstances, and 70 years is a lot . Expect more caste based protests in future.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Not sure if our country's laws discriminate or not but they certainly categorize people based on caste. How are people going to stop categorization if the country itself recognizes people based on their caste, even if for a noble cause. There surely has to be a way to help the needy without actually having the need to evoke their caste. Just an observation, people who are casteist, tend to be fond of History a lot, because they feel superior for belonging to a particular caste. Not all of them of course. People are not going to forget about this caste thing magically unless its forced upon them. If even after 70 years we have debates on caste there is really something wrong not just in the people, because general human nature is same everywhere in similar circumstances, and 70 years is a lot . Expect more caste based protests in future.

You know you can be jailed for misrepresenting you caste for reservation. And, if you misrepresent your caste in marriage, you marriage can be annulled legally. Not divorced but annulled. This is protection of caste system. Easiest way to destroy caste system is to make lying about your caste legal in all circumstances and make any affirmative action based on financial status.

 

[911]

I know at least 3 boys in my own class who changed their surnames and caste at the begining of the 11th std before entering the 12th (registration for ISC) to avail of caste quotas for IIT and Medicine.

If they studied with you in the same school, what exactly they needed reservations for?

You know you can be jailed for misrepresenting you caste for reservation. And, if you misrepresent your caste in marriage, you marriage can be annulled legally. Not divorced but annulled. This is protection of caste system. Easiest way to destroy caste system is to make lying about your caste legal in all circumstances and make any affirmative action based on financial status.

Yes.

 

[Mian Babban]

I wonder what do the Hindus mean by triple talaq?

 

[Dr Shaheryar]

OP. should change the title.

 

[ranjeet]

Kar di red herring waali baat?

I am talking about government colleges. Jiske liye hum sab tax dete hain.

Do you know how many colleges Parsis have started and trusts run in India.

Do you know how many seats students like me and now my son get reserved in them for us?

Cheers, Doc

Reservations were introduced as a tool of empowering the underprivileged community, but it's been reduced to a mere handout by the governments to create their own political base.

 

[Chhatrapati]

I would like to know why I and my people as Parsis or Christians or Muslims or Sikhs or Buddhists have to pay for the Hindu caste system in the form of reservations in education.

Reservation debate again. I think there should be merit based reservation. But it's not possible under current political system.

Although I fall under reservation category, I didn't get the benefit as I'm above creamy layer.
Also, @padamchen I don't think your comment is accurate. There are reservation for Christians like anglo Indian, CSI, although not all, Christians are mostly wealthy in my state. There are reservation for Muslims who do not fall under creamy layer category, then the vast Hindu casts.

In my state ironically, the reservation (Hindu + Christian + Muslim) community make up more than 50% of the population.

 

[padamchen]

If they studied with you in the same school, what exactly they needed reservations for?

You tell me!

Dads worked together in the same company.

We went to the same clubs.

For 12 years of our school life.

Suddenly before IIT/Medical they became dalit.

My close friend I used to sometime joint study with leading up to the entrances. He got a Bishop's certificate and got into a top Christian Medical College in the south.

These things do leave an impact on a young student's life moving forward.

I was good enough and lucky enough to get into a top college on my own. But when 6 lakh students sit for 120 seats, there are bound to be a lot of seriously traumatized kids.

Cheers, Doc

 

[saiyan0321]

good work
so when is this gonna happen in Pakistan ?

Uhh you do know that pakistan divorce laws right? You can't do a single strike triple talaq.

There are three meetings spanning minimum three months. In these meetings they appear before a judge and say yes we want a divorce or I want a divorce.

Now here is something that only lawyers or divorced couples know.

In pakistan divorce is considered a taboo and in Islam to save a couple from divorce is considered a great deed. Due to this both the lawyers ( plaintiff and defendant) pressure the parties to reconcile and not just them. The judge also pressures them reconcile and to this height that long dates can be allotted, meetings allowed and in fact. There is a joke that husband wife standing over there angry go to the judges for isolated talks and come back laughing. Infact the entire court can be emptied just for their isolated meeting. Divorce is a a few months process in pakistan. Triple strike is illegal.

Whether khula by wife, khula by agreement or by talaq. Court is must and three chakar are must. Without it no divorce.


Infact I remember reading a case law that if a husband has initiated a divorced process and dies during the process, then the wife is entitled to inheritance of that husband bcz a divorced is solemnized only after the three statements in 3 months have been made and without it the women is still the wife of the deceased thus liable to share in inheritance. He can scream talaq hundred times a day, it won't work in pakistan.

Fun fact. Any marriage not registered in pakistan with the registrar in a nikah nama is not a marriage. So no moulvi couple crap. You only need a nikah registrar and the kocheri is filled with them.

Another fun fact. Marriage is a contract and not sacrament. In pakistan law it is treated as a contract.


Anyhow pakistan divorce laws are different and you can't do it a single triple way.




Its off topic so I won't go into details.

@padamchen @Joe Shearer @hellfire @Nilgiri

Anyway congrats. Update me on the new law Joe.

 

[Chhatrapati]

What is this craze with "Big Win"??????

And a correct title would be banning of Instant Talak ........... banning triple talak????

It has more to do with the stance taken by Muslim personal law board. Who wanted to keep the instant three talaq system.

While the Muslims women organization wanted it to go. Both had some fierce arguments in courts.

Probably title suggests that.

 

[padamchen]

Uhh you do know that pakistan divorce laws right? You can't do a single strike triple talaq.

There are three meetings spanning minimum three months. In these meetings they appear before a judge and say yes we want a divorce or I want a divorce.

Now here is something that only lawyers or divorced couples know.

In pakistan divorce is considered a taboo and in Islam to save a couple from divorce is considered a great deed. Due to this both the lawyers ( plaintiff and defendant) pressure the parties to reconcile and not just them. The judge also pressures them reconcile and to this height that long dates can be allotted, meetings allowed and in fact. There is a joke that husband wife standing over there angry go to the judges for isolated talks and come back laughing. Infact the entire court can be emptied just for their isolated meeting. Divorce is a a few months process in pakistan. Triple strike is illegal.

Whether khula by wife, khula by agreement or by talaq. Court is must and three chakar are must. Without it no divorce.


Infact I remember reading a case law that if a husband has initiated a divorced process and dies during the process, then the wife is entitled to inheritance of that husband bcz a divorced is solemnized only after the three statements in 3 months have been made and without it the women is still the wife of the deceased thus liable to share in inheritance. He can scream talaq hundred times a day, it won't work in pakistan.

Fun fact. Any marriage not registered in pakistan with the registrar in a nikah nama is not a marriage. So no moulvi couple crap. You only need a nikah registrar and the kocheri is filled with them.

Another fun fact. Marriage is a contract and not sacrament. In pakistan law it is treated as a contract.


Anyhow pakistan divorce laws are different and you can't do it a single triple way.

Its off topic so I won't go into details.

@padamchen @Joe Shearer @hellfire @Nilgiri

Anyway congrats. Update me on the new law Joe.

Really impressed.

I don't know whether it is because you are totally Muslim, and our Muslims are in a siege mentality, or that your Muslims are really more liberal and forward thinking than ours, but impressive nonetheless.

No offence @The_Showstopper but I have had my Muslim friends actually grudgingly tell me this.

Cheers, Doc