Betrayed, Arabized

[Al Bhatti]

This is my interpretation of Tawassuf: Tawassuf is inwardness in Islam, to become closer to Allah (swt) by seeking inner purification. You can also call Tawassuf mysticism. Most people come into this state by reciting verses about love for Allah (swt) & His Prophet(S), architecture, poetry, music, dreams, and geometry. All the shrines you see in Pakistan today, all over Pakistan, are visited by Barelvi Muslims today. All the qawaalis you listen to are the work of Barelvis. Sunni Barelvism is an integral part of Pakistan. Sufism is an ancient movement, & is different from Barelvism, which started in India in the 19th century, but both Barelvism & Sufism encompass the same values. To counter Barelvism, Deoband in UP India started the Deobandi movement.

can you please give a reference to a hadith or a verse which make shrines and looking after it (like it is done in Pakistan) legitimate in Islam?

 

[JonAsad]

Sir, my point is that Saudi Arabia is the hotbed for Salafi/Wahabi thought today. Just go to Madina Mubaraka, see what they have done to Jannat-ul-Baqi, to Bibi Fatima (R)'s house, to Hazrat Abu Bakr (R)'s house etc. See how they are destroying Islamic history. The fact that women cannot drive or vote, & have to be segregated from men in public. I realize that not all Muslim countries follow these rulings, but the fact is that the majority of these practices have nothing to do with Islam. However, because Saudi Arabia is the most important arena for Islamic history & traditions, & it has the holiest places of Islam that are visited by Muslims all over the world; it (Saudi Arabia) holds a certain influence, & great authority over all Muslim nations & Muslims.

I agree with the influence part but why call that influence as Arab influence?- Can't it be a more specific Saudi influence?- You dont call it as Islamic influence since Islam did generated from this land?-


The bolded line-
This was done to restrain people from making it a public worship place like we do in Derbars- thats a totally different topic-

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Assalam alaikum

bilal bhai, if abu bakr r-a was alive he would have donated his house for muslims to benefit from it and i don't think bibi fatima r-a will not do the same thing, we don't worship houses brother

is it tasawwuf or tawassuf u guys confused me mosa and bilal

regard

TARIQ

 

[53fd]

I agree with the influence part but why call that influence as Arab influence?- Can't it be a more specific Saudi influence?- You dont call it as Islamic influence since Islam did generated from this land?-


The bolded line-
This was done to restrain people from making it a public worship place like we do in Derbars- thats a totally different topic-

Again, I won't go into the topic of Shrines & Derbars, because it is too complicated & will completely derail the thread, but it does have some kind of involvement with Deobandism & Salafism. Salam.

 

[Mosamania]

I agree with the influence part but why call that influence as Arab influence?- Can't it be a more specific Saudi influence?- You dont call it as Islamic influence since Islam did generated from this land?-


The bolded line-
This was done to restrain people from making it a public worship place like we do in Derbars- thats a totally different topic-

"Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever" az-zumar 3

Perhaps it is best to leave this for another thread.

 

[JonAsad]

Delude yourself anyway floats your boat - Arbi has always meant peninsula, it was only to form a larger block against the Turks and later communism that there cam eto be such things as "Arabs"

and i say again an Arbi is a arabic speaking regular joe whose state has made it a national language and there are 26 of them- Be more specific there is a term called Middle East for a reason- unless theres an authority given to you by Almight "who you worship" that you can name demographics- please make sense-

 

[Vinod2070]

Delude yourself anyway floats your boat - Arbi has always meant peninsula, it was only to form a larger block against the Turks and later communism that there cam eto be such things as "Arabs"

This concept of "Arabs" is fairly new, just a few decades old. They were no more than a bunch of warring tribes throughout history, even killing if someone from another "Arab" tribe "stole their water" (which just meant drank from it after a long journey through the desert).

 

[muse]

and i say again an Arbi is a arabic speaking regular joe whose state has made it a national language and there are 26 of them- Be more specific there is a term called Middle East for a reason- unless theres an authority given to you by Almight "who you worship" that you can name demographics- please make sense-

Jonas

Just because we speak English does not make us Englishmen - now that may or may not please you but what pleases you or not, does not change facts.

 

[Vinod2070]

Someone was habitually trying to appropriate the "Barelvi" school of thought for Pakistan.

Typical ignorance and lack of facts!

This movement even got its name because it's founder was from the UP city of Bareilly.

 

[JonAsad]

This concept of "Arabs" is fairly new, just a few decades old. They were no more than a bunch of warring tribes throughout history, even killing if someone from another "Arab" tribe "stole their water" (which just meant drank from it after a long journey through the desert).

Now you are talking about Arabs pre- Islam- when there were mostly tribes with no defining area of a state- you can call it Arabia-

and if you insist on calling them warring tribes- do not forget these warring tribes invaded hindustan- please give them respect-

 

[Mosamania]

This concept of "Arabs" is fairly new, just a few decades old. They were no more than a bunch of warring tribes throughout history, even killing if someone from another "Arab" tribe "stole their water" (which just meant drank from it after a long journey through the desert).

Arabs have united several times Battle of Dhi Qar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this is one of them when all the arab tribes united against the outsider invader and that was before Islam even.

And no Arabs of Arabia called themselves Arabs since before Islam by centuries but they stopped calling themselves that when Islam came since Islam as I said before has no race or tongue.

I hate it when people start appointing themselves as historians with no facts.

 

[muse]

Now that the thread has derailed from examining Arabization in Pakistan to attributes of different sects, how, Bilal will you respond to this

can you please give a reference to a hadith or a verse which make shrines and looking after it (like it is done in Pakistan) legitimate in Islam?

Have you not opened the door examining All Waqf property and how it is "legitimate" to the Wahabi?? When you use the terms and frames of refernce of the Wahabi, how do you hope to out wahabi him??

Indeed, is it "legitimate" to have a shrine for the Quaid e Azam?? Show the man hadith or verses

 

[53fd]

Someone was habitually trying to appropriate the "Barelvi" school of thought for Pakistan.

Typical ignorance and lack of facts!

This movement even got its name because it's founder was from the UP city of Bareilly.

The Barelvi movement in the 1880s was a movement founded in Bareilly, UP India; to counter the Deobandi movement created in 1866 in Deoband, UP India. The Barelvis are not the same as the Sufis, even though they encompass similar "values". Sufism spread through present day Pakistan to India & other places many many centuries ago. The Deobandis created the Dar Uloom Deoband to reform & revise the "flaws" they saw in the Sufi mysticism ideology, & Barelvism was a means to protect it (Sufism) & counter the Deobandi ideology. Hope I have cleared your misconceptions about the topic.

 

[Vinod2070]

Now you are talking about Arabs pre- Islam- when there were mostly tribes with no defining area of a state- you can call it Arabia-

No. I am talking about Arabs as late as a few decades back, even when they were under the Turks.

The Pan Arab nationalism was a creation of the mid 20th century. Before that there were just triben. Even now, most nations have inter tribe rivalries, sometimes violent.

and if you insist on calling them warring tribes- do not forget these warring tribes invaded hindustan- please give them respect-

Sorry, we don't have a tradition of respecting invaders.

Arabs were a minor chapter in Indian subcontinental history. Their effect was limited to some border areas for a small time before they were beaten by the likes of Mongols and remained their subjects for centuries, till the start of the 20th century when Turkey was defeated in WW-1.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

vinod wake up u r talking about 1400 years ago , friend

TARIQ