Betrayed, Arabized

[Vinod2070]

Arabs have united several times Battle of Dhi Qar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this is one of them when all the arab tribes united against the outsider invader and that was before Islam even.

And no Arabs of Arabia called themselves Arabs since before Islam by centuries but they stopped calling themselves that when Islam came since Islam as I said before has no race or tongue.

I hate it when people start appointing themselves as historians with no facts.

This thread is full of exactly the bolded part.

So what gives?

 

[JonAsad]

Jonas

Just because we speak English does not make us Englishmen - now that may or may not please you but what pleases you or not, does not change facts.

Mousy
the definition of Fact i know of is "indisputable" "with evidence" -

In calling the arabi Peninsula as comprising of only wahabi influnced radical sodies you forget to put that fact forward-
So i am waiting- My friend the Arab Peninsula consists of few more non salafi influenced arab countries-

 

[53fd]

Now that the thread has derailed from examining Arabization in Pakistan to attributes of different sects, how, Bilal will you respond to this



Have you not opened the door examining All Waqf property and how it is "legitimate" to the Wahabi?? When you use the terms and frames of refernce of the Wahabi, how do you hope to out wahabi him??

I will not respond to this question here, as talking on religious issues is against the rules of the PDF. I can answer personally in an email or something. You don't need to respond to him if he is asking you for any reference to hadith or a verse regarding shrines.

 

[Safriz]

To some "idiots" because we converse in English it apparently means we are Englishmen - The only arbis around are the Peninsula and gulf arbis - there are no other - Egyptians are Egyptians, Syrians are Syrians

and algerians. moroccons. tunisians...all changed their language along with their religion..mainly to create one united nation..
sane as here in UK wales is welsh...scottish is gaelic and irish have irish language but all speak one language English..
are they englishizes?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistan's collective identity is of that of a Pakistani, which is (rightly or wrongly) inseparable from Islam today. This is not the Islam of the Saudis (Salafi) or of India (Deobandi), but of the Barelvis & the Sufis, which is native to the land. This is more important than ethnic or lingual divides. Most Pakistanis are peaceful Barelvi Sunnis, who live peacefully with Shias like me, as well as other non-Muslims. The "Arabization" you are referring to is the fringe Salafi society that the TTP/Taliban/Al-Qaeda follow, & the Pakistan Army is fighting right now with the full support of the Pakistani people. A non-Muslim Pakistani is a Pakistani first & foremost, & that is enough for most Pakistanis living in Pakistan.

very well stated, Bilal Bhai.

 

[muse]

and algerians. moroccons. tunisians...all changed their language along with their religion..mainly to create one united nation..
sane as here in UK wales is welsh...scottish is gaelic and irish have irish language but all speak one language English..
are they englishizes?

All these countries changed their religion and language due to conquest - and it was the same in the UK - but in the UK only English are Englishmen - You speak arabic, are you an arbi? Rather obvious but please don't take my word for it.

 

[Safriz]

wahabi are named after "imam abdul wahhab saqafee" who was a great man and "mujaddid" of his era...A time when people were leaving Allah and turning to shrines for prayers he demklidhed shrines and preached the importance of "directly"praying to Allah instead of using "referrence".
Barailwi was coinex after "Ahmed Raza khan Barailwi" who was a great scholor ans saw that people are turning away from"ishq e nabi"..forgetting the saints..and revived these sentiments amlng muslims...
so whats wrong with any of these?

 

[muse]

I will not respond to this question here, as talking on religious issues is against the rules of the PDF. I can answer personally in an email or something. You don't need to respond to him if he is asking you for any reference to hadith or a verse regarding shrines.

Come on yaar, billi ab chali haj kernai?

For future reference - just remember this event.


What seems to me to be clear is that there is a cultural clash gaining ground - people, Pakistani people are not willing to accept this arabization, and another cultural set is determined to impose it, even with the power of the state - once again, it boils down to where the Pakistan army will stand or be made to stand.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

No. I am talking about Arabs as late as a few decades back, even when they were under the Turks.

The Pan Arab nationalism was a creation of the mid 20th century. Before that there were just triben. Even now, most nations have inter tribe rivalries, sometimes violent.



Sorry, we don't have a tradition of respecting invaders.
Arabs were a minor chapter in Indian subcontine history. Their effect was limited to some border areas for a small time before they were beaten by the likes of Mongols and remained their subjects for centuries, till the start of the 20th century when Turkey was defeated in WW-1.

a minor chapter but they put the first block for about say how many millions muslims in pakistan 180 india less then 200 mil and bangladesh 150 mil

TARIQ

 

[JonAsad]

Arabs were a minor chapter in Indian subcontinental history.

this so called minor chapter changed the whole history of indian subcontinent- Irony?- or Pitty?- the reality is there is no more subcontinent- even the country india gained independence in 47-

they were beaten by the likes of Mongols and remained their subjects for centuries, till the start of the 20th century when Turkey was defeated in WW-1.

i was thinking if it was some hindustanis that defeated them- you should be feeling proud of it- hindustan was never a single country in its entire history- just like some warring tribes of arabia as you call it?- Get the point?-

 

[53fd]

Come on yaar, billi ab chali haj kernai?

For future reference - just remember this event.

Again, I do not mind talking about these issues, but it is completely against the rules of this forum, & it does not pertain to the topic at hand either. I had to give a historical reference to things here, but this is not a religious forum.

---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 AM ----------

 

[Omar1984]

Someone was habitually trying to appropriate the "Barelvi" school of thought for Pakistan.

Typical ignorance and lack of facts!

This movement even got its name because it's founder was from the UP city of Bareilly.

And you can have it. I am Pakistani and never heard of this Barelvi movement. If someone asks me what Religion I follow, I say Islam, and when they say what kind of Muslim I say Sunni Muslim. No one really cares about school of thoughts in this day and age.

 

[53fd]

The funny thing is, Hinduism is just as foreign to present day India as Islam is, considering the fact that the Vedas were written in present day Pakistan, & Hinduism originated from there. But that isn't the topic at hand, so I won't really go into great details.

 

[muse]

wahabi are named after "imam abdul wahhab saqafee" who was a great man and "mujaddid" of his era...A time when people were leaving Allah and turning to shrines for prayers he demklidhed shrines and preached the importance of "directly"praying to Allah instead of using "referrence".
Barailwi was coinex after "Ahmed Raza khan Barailwi" who was a great scholor ans saw that people are turning away from"ishq e nabi"..forgetting the saints..and revived these sentiments amlng muslims...
so whats wrong with any of these?

Whereas some argue that Abdul Wahab was thrown out of the seminary and that it was his father and brother who were graduates of the seminary - it is indeed interesting that it is claimed he was a "Mujjadid", especially since others who claimed such were put to the sword, but abdul wahab had a sword of his own.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

wahabi are named after "imam abdul wahhab saqafee" who was a great man and "mujaddid" of his era...A time when people were leaving Allah and turning to shrines for prayers he demklidhed shrines and preached the importance of "directly"praying to Allah instead of using "referrence".
Barailwi was coinex after "Ahmed Raza khan Barailwi" who was a great scholor ans saw that people are turning away from"ishq e nabi"..forgetting the saints..and revived these sentiments amlng muslims...
so whats wrong with any of these?

in all instances, there is love and affinity for God.

today, Islam is not in any danger...there aren't "desertions" or anything. So why the need for anyone to be closed-minded or feel "under threat"