Army, DRDO fight it out again over Arjun and futuristic tanks

[Zarvan]

Yet another battle has erupted between the Army and DRDO in their long-running feud over the indigenous Arjun main-battle tank. Unhappy at being saddled with 122 Arjun Mark-I tanks, the force has refused to order its Mark-II variant till the prototypes perform satisfactorily.

The Army has also kicked off a global hunt for a “future ready combat vehicle (FRCV)”, asking foreign and domestic companies to submit design proposals by August 31 to build “a new-generation, state-of-the-art combat vehicle platform”.

This, in effect, will scuttle DRDO’s attempt to build a futuristic main-battle tank (FMBT). Clearly dismayed with the proposed FRCV project, the DRDO has lashed out at the Army for “never really supporting” the indigenous endeavor to build current and next-generation MBTs.

“Arjuns did better than Russian-origin T-90S tanks in comparative trials in 2010. But the Army keeps on changing its technical requirements. If it ordered around 500 Arjuns, it would stabilize production lines. This, in turn, will allow regular upgrades and set the stage for developing the FMBT,” said a scientist.

The referee in the raging battle, defence minister Manohar Parrikar, told Parliament on Tuesday that the Army’s proposed FRCV project was to meet its “futuristic requirements beyond 2027″. It is “not in conflict with the current MBT Arjun programme and its future orders”, he added.

But the Army is adamant it will not order 118 Arjun Mark-II tanks, at a cost of Rs 5,745 crore, till they clear all operational trials. The force already has 122 Arjun Mark-I tanks, with the bulk of them being grounded at present due to major technical and maintenance problems.

“The bane of Arjun is its 62-tonne weight and the consequent poor operational mobility,” said a top officer. Given its excessive weight and width, the Arjun can’t be used in Punjab and northern deserts for armoured thrusts under the “Pro-Active” or “Cold Start” war strategy, which has long rattled Pakistan.

“Many bridges and culverts in Punjab will not be able to take its weight. Moreover, our rail tank transporters will find it tough to carry the Arjuns from one sector to another,” he added.

The Arjun Mark-II, in turn, will have 73 technical improvements over the Mark-I. These range from the capability to fire missiles from the main gun and advanced laser warning and control systems to explosive reactive armour plates for better self-protection of the tanks.

Though Parrikar said 53 of the 73 improvement in Arjun Mark-II had been “found successful based on user trials” till now, the Army contends the tank now weighs an alarming 67 tonnes.

“The worry is that DRDO will push an Arjun Mark-III under the FMBT programme. Under the FCRV project in tune with the Make in India policy, we are looking at futuristic combat platform which can multi-task, take on both enemy tanks and attack helicopters,” said the Army officer.

Army, DRDO fight it out again over Arjun and futuristic tanks | idrw.org
@nair @SpArK @GURU DUTT @OrionHunter @Skull and Bones @levina @doppelganger @he-man @ares @third eye @Pakistanisage @Chanakya's_Chant

 

[AMCA]

Since we have opened up our industry to the Private Sector. May be, we can have more options if not better. I must salute the courage TATA Showed in replying to the RFP issued by the Army, even though it was unrealistic by Industrial Profile of this Country. I am sure we can see Indigenous Platforms from Companies like M&M , TATA, K-Forge, CVRDE in the coming future.

 

[AMCA]

Well where their is a whole article why should I waste my time and you want my suggestion. India needs to stop wasting time on Arjun get a good Tank from any part of the world with TOT and produce it. Pakistan already is going forward with OPLOT M and AK-2 is also going to come really soon. In fact AK-2 has lot of similarities with German Leopard.

We already have quite a handy number of MBT's from Russia. But for a country as big and vast like India. We cannot afford to keep buying. Arjun is a good product should the lobby's give it a room and space to fight for this country. Both MK1 and MK2 are good piece of Machinery sufficient to keep our border's sealed.

We only have to increase the indigenous components that go into it.

 

[Echo_419]

point is you bieng an person from enemy state of india why are you so worried for india wasting its money on wepons which will inevitabelli bieng used against your own nation .... what is that mulk dushmani on your part or fear on arjun or both

Baat to teri sahi hai

 

[Indian Patriot]

National security is far more important than a bunch of losers call DRDO. Losers like DRDO do nothing except gossip in office, waste public money and take home salaries paid by public money for doing nothing. DRDO has not been able to successfully execute a single project till date. It is nothing but a national embarrassment.

DRDO should be shut down and private companies encouraged in its place which are better suited to serve Indian defense needs.

 

[GURU DUTT]

what Battle of Asal Uttar proved that Tactics is always superior than Machinery.India flooded the plains of Punjab which lead Pakistani Armour right into the trap.Nobody can sustain fire from 3 sides,whatever equipment you have.

in a war the onli thing thats important is right tactics at a right time and that can change owtcome of any battle/war

arjun is no dought a very good tank but i feel like its way too heavy and bulkier DRDO should once again try to bring back TANK EX but this time with a autoloader and modified and compact arjuns unmanned turret and a upgraded T72 chassis with better suspension and engine and that just might click

 

[AMCA]

National security is far more important than a bunch of losers call DRDO. Losers like DRDO do nothing except gossip in office, waste public money and take home salaries paid by public money for doing nothing. DRDO has not been able to successfully execute a single project till date. It is nothing but a national embarrassment.

DRDO should be shut down and private companies encouraged in its place which are better suited to serve Indian defense needs.

Hi, I dont want to sound a bit odd, but sir, dont you think Govt Agencies in India have to go through many legalities when compared to Pvt. Companies? The Responsibilities and consequences of Scientists and Management Employees in Govt Agencies are superior to that of a Project Manager or a Project Engineer in a Pvt company.

Remove unwanted laws controlling Public Enterprises. Remove unwanted auditing processes. Limit political interference. You will see our public company outshine The Pvt. Ones.

 

[damiendehorn]

ARMATA!.....sounds like the tank the army wants.

 

[OrionHunter]

Well when there is whole article why should I waste my time. You want my suggestion, India needs to stop wasting time on Arjun get a good Tank from any part of the world with TOT and produce it. Pakistan already is going forward with OPLOT M and AK-2 is also going to come really soon. In fact AK-2 has lot of similarities with German Leopard.

We are in talks to produce the Russian Armata series of tanks and weapon platforms in India!

 

[Indian Patriot]

Hi, I dont want to sound a bit odd, but sir, dont you think Govt Agencies in India have to go through many legalities when compared to Pvt. Companies? The Responsibilities and consequences of Scientists and Management Employees in Govt Agencies are superior to that of a Project Manager or a Project Engineer in a Pvt company.

public sector companies have a sarkari attitude which means there is no sense of responsibility and no accountability. Most of these scientists get their jobs by paying bribes or by sifarish. There is no meritocracy or respect for deadlines in a sarkari daftar.

Remove unwanted laws controlling Public Enterprises. Remove unwanted auditing processes. Limit political interference. You will see our public company outshine The Pvt. Ones.

Private companies will always outshine public ones because private sector is more competitive, responsible and accountable.

We are in talks to produce the Russian Armata series of tanks and weapon platforms in India!

Good, this will prove another nail in DRDO's coffin.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Humiliation!!You mean humiliation like destroying more number of enemy tanks,liquidating 50% more numbers of enemy troops than own casualties,capturing thrice the territoy than losing (and that too while being qualitatively and quantitatively inferior to the enemy if I may add) so on and so forth??If that's the kind of humiliation you are ready to give us,then we will be happy to get humiliated in such a way for a countless number of times.



Keep your opinion to yourself mate.And if your (err,Chinese I mean)AK 2 had been so much great as you folks want us to believe,then there wouldn't have been a need to procure the Oplot in the first place itself!!More so because they are more or less in the same weight category.


Nothing of that sort is gonna happen.The last date of submission in respect to the FRCV's RFI was set at 31st July and guess what??No firms even bothered to reply to that joke of an RFI.True,the mod has extended the date to 31st August,but the rersult won't be different this time either.This hole drama of FRCV will meet the same end of the MMRCA and multicval rifle compition.The Army will have to go for the Arjun MkIII,there is just no way it would be any different.



Ideally that should have been the logical option for upgrading the existing T 72M1s and T 90S or the Indian Army.A modified Tank Ex with a 120mm smooth barrel gun would have been one hell of a fighting machine that could go toe to toe and emerge victorius against anything our neighbours can throw in our way.But But But,only if it was not the decision of some illiterate jokers in the DGMO,who have got basicxally no engineering sense.The Tank Ex project was one such occassion where DRDO tried to be proactive but it was shot down in no time by the Army siting obsolescence as the reason.................as if those export model T72M1s were the pinnacle of MBT evolution!!

what ever happens the free lunch time of army and DRDO is over (at least till BJP is in the saddle) and army guys now know this what they also know is that they arent going to get anything if they fight PMO or MOD so they are at loggerheads with DRDO as they both made fool on indian tax payers for quite some time and now both are exposed hence fighting each other but as they say "when theves fight the real truth comes owt"

but as for future MBT of army it will be nothing but a cross between the techs of T72 & Arjun and armata cause that is the onli sensible thing that can be done with the kind of budget indian army and DRDO is given and both know it and thats why fighting each other as both beleve the other party ditched them

 

[Indian Jatt]

in a war the onli thing thats important is right tactics at a right time and that can change owtcome of any battle/war

arjun is no dought a very good tank but i feel like its way too heavy and bulkier DRDO should once again try to bring back TANK EX but this time with a autoloader and modified and compact arjuns unmanned turret and a upgraded T72 chassis with better suspension and engine and that just might click

Ek kaam karte hai, T -14 lete hai and then we should try to make tank ex with that.....arjun turret and systems would be indian chassis will be produced in india that way tank weight could be kept below 55 short tons, what say???500 T-14 and then chassis could be produced under TOT.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Ek kaam karte hai, T -14 lete hai and then we should try to make tank ex with that.....arjun turret and systems would be indian chassis will be produced in india that way tank weight could be kept below 55 short tons, what say???500 T-14 and then chassis could be produced under TOT.

what if i told you work is in progress on upgraded T72 chassis and fitting in a compact unmanned arjun chassis with a 120mm smoothbore gun and a autoloader and israelies are helping us with it as it alos is roumered to have all israeli active defnce techs

 

[Indian Jatt]

what if i told you work is in progress on upgraded T72 chassis and fitting in a compact unmanned arjun chassis with a 120mm smoothbore gun and a autoloader and israelies are helping us with it as it alos is roumered to have all israeli active defnce techs

Upgraded T-72 chassis???? I thought it was dead, it was MBT karan which lost to T-90 bhishma, it was rejected by the army, but if Israel can make a failed tank defeat bhishma, i hope they can make tank ex a success, it would be a knockout blow to the army by PMO and DM.......but 67 tons is very heavy, we should try to reduce engine size and length of arjun....trophy system?????it would be like merkava

 

[Indian Jatt]

well a lot of things changed after Namo came to power and MP got into the saddle

Hahaha, they have been arm twisted by pmo and maybe dm, results are here they have accepted akash, are going for Excalibur rifles, dumped the rifle tender, now that private players have entered the competition, they will feel the heat and pressure from the top