Army, DRDO fight it out again over Arjun and futuristic tanks

[GURU DUTT]

Hahaha, they have been arm twisted by pmo and maybe dm, results are here they have accepted akash, are going for Excalibur rifles, dumped the rifle tender, now that private players have entered the competition, they will feel the heat and pressure from the top

indian army scuttled tan ex /karna cause they had T90 on their mind and now want armata

 

[Indian Jatt]

indian army scuttled tan ex /karna cause they had T90 on their mind and now want armata

They love russian Natasha......., T14 can only be bought if arjun fails, but arjun is doing good, even after adding sand and water to engine and compartment it still beat bhishma......but T14 will surely come as it is not being sold to China, if we denied, they will sell it to chinese...we will lose the edge just to keep our prestige high

 

[GURU DUTT]

They love russian Natasha......., T14 can only be bought if arjun fails, but arjun is doing good, even after adding sand and water to engine and compartment it still beat bhishma......but T14 will surely come as it is not being sold to China, if we denied, they will sell it to chinese...we will lose the edge just to keep our prestige high

well we can buy T14 aswell and make huge ammounts of indegenous MBTs whats more we can also put a lighter and compact unmanned arjun turret on a 6X6 or 8X8 wheeled chasis and make a good IFV under 20Tonnes

 

[Killswitch]

If the arjun was actually made in India i might support it, but almost all of its major systems are foreign.

India is better off getting 100% tot on Armata, that way we dont have to import anything, and we get a light multi-role platform.

 

[Indian Jatt]

well we can buy T14 aswell and make huge ammounts of indegenous MBTs whats more we can also put a lighter and compact unmanned arjun turret on a 6X6 or 8X8 wheeled chasis and make a good IFV under 20Tonnes

these machines if deployed with special forces can be effective in major thrusts into enemy territory

 

[surya kiran]

upgraded T72 chassis and fitting in a compact unmanned arjun chassis with a 120mm smoothbore gun and a autoloader

Heard that's going to go to the Tata Advanced Systems team. Any confirmation on this?

 

[AMCA]

public sector companies have a sarkari attitude which means there is no sense of responsibility and no accountability. Most of these scientists get their jobs by paying bribes or by sifarish. There is no meritocracy or respect for deadlines in a sarkari daftar.

Private companies will always outshine public ones because private sector is more competitive, responsible and accountable.



Good, this will prove another nail in DRDO's coffin.

That's the General Misconception.I have had the privilege to be in some of the research institutions(Not Defense). The infrastructure they have , the Protocols they are made to follow and the standard operating procedures are not just wow but also an eye opener for most of us who believe every govt agency has a sarkari babu attitude.

Let me share what it is to be a Govt. Employee. Let me compare with a small example. In a Pvt Company, if you reject somebody who has better qualification over somebody with lesser qualification but of better talent,Nothing could be done about it or its often left aside as fate.

If the same is done in a Govt. Undertaking. The entire recruitment panel is taken to court including the Director level management. Believe me, hundreds of such cases are pending in the court of law. Now tell me, if every right or wrong decisions have such major consequences then how could one take time for responsibility and perform?

Its easy to blame govt companies, but once you get to know them from inside. I am sure you will too make an attempt in understanding their limitations.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

India is better off getting 100% tot on Armata, that way we dont have to import anything, and we get a light multi-role platform.

You think you're going to get 100% tot on Armata? They didnt give that in the T90, which rides around with DRDO armor, barrel, etc.

 

[Omega007]

If the arjun was actually made in India i might support it, but almost all of its major systems are foreign.

Well what else do you expect??Who in their right mind would invest huge amount of money and man power on developing each and every nuts and bolts,all by themselves,for a measly 128 tanks??Sorry kid,companies do not role that way.It would be good for you to learn these things or better yet..................get a proper schooling before opening mouth and show your stupidity to everyone......or knowing you,it would be better to keep that pie hole shut for all together for the time being.
And oh yeah mate,do try to learn about globalization.Countries do not need to design and develop every subsystem all by themselves these days,because it's cheaper to buy them cots,from other nations.That's why,even the USA does not build every subsystem of their Abrams in country ,a big portion of its critical subsystems are of imported origin,for example its guns and power-pack and sights are of European origin.Same case with South Korean K2 Black Panther and the Altay - almost the entire tank is of foreign origin including but not limited to its armor,gun,engines,sights even ammo - every fucking
thing came from different countries!!I do not see the Turks whining and moaning about this!!Because they understand good business,they understand the concept of feasibility,same can not be told about immature crybabies like yourself though.

So again,before opening that mouth,do educate yourself,or better yet...............just keep shut and learn for the time being.

India is better off getting 100% tot on Armata,

So basically you have no fuckking idea about what the term tot really means.You are probably just another teenager,who thinks he's got figured out all of it.Am I right or am I right??

that way we dont have to import anything, and we get a light multi-role platform.

Yeah right,as we do not have to import anything for assembling those T90S ,which we had received the 'full tot' for!!Really man,I'm just astonished by the sheer level of your stupidity and ignorance!!Come on now,ignorance can never be a bliss..............well,may be it can for ignorant like you but for others,it's a big pain in the @ss!!

You think you're going to get 100% tot on Armata? They didnt give that in the T90, which rides around with DRDO armor, barrel, etc.

And don't forget the dhakosla the Ruskies did with the fitment of air conditioners and subsequently what a fool of galactic magnitude they made of themselves when they failed to do it by themselves!!Comments like his makes one wonder when will these kids grow up and start talking sense.

That's the General Misconception.I have had the privilege to be in some of the research institutions(Not Defense). The infrastructure they have , the Protocols they are made to follow and the standard operating procedures are not just wow but also an eye opener for most of us who believe every govt agency has a sarkari babu attitude.

Let me share what it is to be a Govt. Employee. Let me compare with a small example. In a Pvt Company, if you reject somebody who has better qualification over somebody with lesser qualification but of better talent,Nothing could be done about it or its often left aside as fate.

If the same is done in a Govt. Undertaking. The entire recruitment panel is taken to court including the Director level management. Believe me, hundreds of such cases are pending in the court of law. Now tell me, if every right or wrong decisions have such major consequences then how could one take time for responsibility and perform?

A really enlightening piece.But unfortunately,it's gonna fall on his deaf ears.The guy in question has made a perception and unfortunately,he's got a huge ego,which won't make him accept his faults and he will just carry on at his course of abusing the DRDO and other government entities without an iota of logic to back his claims up.Better to ignore him altogether.

Its easy to blame govt companies, but once you get to know them from inside. I am sure you will too make an attempt in understanding their limitations.

Sadly,nothing of that sort is ever gonna happen.You just do not know him yet,he's a basket case.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Well what else do you expect??Who in their right mind would invest huge amount of money and man power on developing each and every nuts and bolts,all by themselves,for a measly 128 tanks??Sorry kid,companies do not role that way.It would be good for you to learn these things or better yet..................get a proper schooling before opening mouth and show your stupidity to everyone......or knowing you,it would be better to keep that pie hole shut for all together for the time being.
And oh yeah mate,do try to learn about globalization.Countries do not need to design and develop every subsystem all by themselves these days,because it's cheaper to buy them cots,from other nations.That's why,even the USA does not build every subsystem of their Abrams in country ,a big portion of its critical subsystems are of imported origin,for example its guns and power-pack and sights are of European origin.

Wrong... Abram uses US made (Honeywell) powerplant,it's gun was actually a JV .. The allies were on a tank that would be employed by all but the project got cancelled but it's parts or systems that were developed were later utilised by allied nations... Also the tank gun is produced in US( not imported)
Abrams doesn't use European sights...It's sights are provided by Raython,Collins.. Etc all US companies.

Same case with South Korean K2 Black Panther and the Altay - almost the entire tank is of foreign origin including but not limited to its armor,gun,engines,sights even ammo - every fucking
thing came from different countries!!I do not see the Turks whining and moaning about this!!Because they understand good business,they understand the concept of feasibility,same can not be told about immature crybabies like yourself though

Nope.. That's nonsense... Turkish Altay is using Turkish IBMS,sight systems,FCS,Turkish armour (they did get help from Pak and Korea though)...their own APS,RCWS...etc...
The Turks also also developing their own powerplant for Altay..etc etc.

these machines if deployed with special forces can be effective in major thrusts into enemy territory

That's at Max an anti tank gun.. "Major thrusts" inside enemy territory is nonsense unless you are fighting countries like myanmar or bangladesh...

Apart from terrain .. You will have too somehow gain the element of complete surprise .. Which won't be possible with thousands of tanks stationed on the border with india..

 

[Water Car Engineer]

And don't forget the dhakosla the Ruskies did with the fitment of air conditioners and subsequently what a fool of galactic magnitude they made of themselves when they failed to do it by themselves!!Comments like his makes one wonder when will these kids grow up and start talking sense.

If there was the same user, developer cooperation and the industrial effort like with the T90 done to Arjun, much of that imported things in Arjun will have local alternative for sure. But it's in limited production, and treated as a unwanted step child.

 

[Omega007]

Wrong... Abram uses US made powerplant,it's was actually a JV .. The allies were on a tank that would be employed by all but the project got cancelled but it's parts or systems that were developed were later utilised by allied nations

True,but you just can not ignore the level of technical inputs it received from the Germans.Without their inputs,I doubt Honeywell could ever come up with that power-pack.

... Also the tank gun is produced in US... Abrams doesn't use European sights...

Yes,but it is essentially a Rheinmetall L44.And just look at the order book of the Abrams,the total number produced is 10000+ for crying out loud!!With that kind of an order book,the companies faced no problem in breaking even.

Nope.. That's nonsense... Turkish Altay is using Turkish IBMS,sight systems,FCS,Turkish armour (they did get help from Pak and Korea though)...their own APS,RCWS...
The Turks also also developing their own powerplant for Altay..etc etc.

No,that is not at all nonsense just because you say so.............at least not for the first trench of 250 or so machines.And by the way,neither APS nor IBMS fall among the list of most critical parts,and it's not that complicated either as even third world countries like India and Pakistan can design one without much hassle.It's all about the algorithms.
By critical parts,I meant armor,gun,power pack and ammo.And we all know the Turks paid a hefty price to the Koreans for developing a version of armor for their Altay,the engine,suspension,transmission and guns all have come from Germany.............you might wanna deny that but that wouldn't change the reality.
And lastly,please do not bring under development things into the discussion.Because then,I can say the same for India as the Cuminnis India has already developed a prototype 1500 hp diesel engine for this purpose and DRDO is also in the advanced stage of developing a 1800 hp compact engine.But lets leave them aside for the time being,shall we??

 

[Omega007]

If there was the same user, developer cooperation and the industrial effort like with the T90 done to Arjun, much of that imported things in Arjun will have local alternative for sure. But it's in limited production, and treated as a unwanted step child.

Well,I always try to say the same thing but then I get accused of being of a mothafuckking commie bast@rd!!

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

but where is the money for it

Don't worry we will get it... Just like we got
450 M1117s
79 M109 SPGs
92 SH-1 SPGs
Production of A-100
More Panters (with Tot) - HIT
Dragoon IFV (ToT) - HIT
Edgar APCs (ToT) - HIT
250+150 MRAPs MAXPros + Buffalo EODs
15 Vipers + top owl HMDS + 1000 Hellfires
20 Z-10s
8 AIP Subs
4 improved F-22Ps
Meltem System upgrade for ATR MPA's
Oplots + 60% tot (hit a little engine snag)
8 Cutters
Mi-35M
Protector LAV - HIT
UCAV + ALATGM
Uqaab LAV - HIT
Hundred more APCs and IFVs
JF-17 Block II - PAC

Etc Etc all this year..

 

[Indian Patriot]

They love russian Natasha......., T14 can only be bought if arjun fails, but arjun is doing good, even after adding sand and water to engine and compartment it still beat bhishma......but T14 will surely come as it is not being sold to China, if we denied, they will sell it to chinese...we will lose the edge just to keep our prestige high

Arjun is NOT doing good. It is a colossal failure.

these machines if deployed with special forces can be effective in major thrusts into enemy territory

How do you deploy a 50 tonne tank with special forces?

That's the General Misconception

LOL!! Which world are you living in?

I have had the privilege to be in some of the research institutions(Not Defense). The infrastructure they have , the Protocols they are made to follow and the standard operating procedures are not just wow but also an eye opener for most of us who believe every govt agency has a sarkari babu attitude.

Being government funded they will have better infrastructure, after all money is not going from their own pockets. What research are you talking about? How many Indian research papers are published every year? How many Indian scientists are making path-breaking discoveries or are famous in their community world wide?

Those making a name are working in foreign labs where there is meritocracy, accountability and discipline.

Let me share what it is to be a Govt. Employee. Let me compare with a small example. In a Pvt Company, if you reject somebody who has better qualification over somebody with lesser qualification but of better talent,Nothing could be done about it or its often left aside as fate.

Who feeds you this kind of lies?

In a government agency people of merit are sidelined if they do not have the proper contacts or money to grease the palms, caste reservation and petty politics is the norm, it takes years to earn a promotion and promotions are not always handed out on merit. Corruption was created by these sarkari daftars. It is because of these babus that corrupt businessmen like the ambanis believe they have India in their pocket.

If the same is done in a Govt. Undertaking. The entire recruitment panel is taken to court including the Director level management. Believe me, hundreds of such cases are pending in the court of law. Now tell me, if every right or wrong decisions have such major consequences then how could one take time for responsibility and perform?

That is your excuse for DRDO's failure in all these years? Why can't you accept the simple fact that the so called scientists in DRDO are not qualified enough to give results. All they can do is beg for Transfer of technology. A 12th standard science student can do that.

Its easy to blame govt companies, but once you get to know them from inside. I am sure you will too make an attempt in understanding their limitations.

Government companies have unlimited funding and job security, what limitations are you talking about? These sarkari attitude and labor unions are the biggest threats to Indian progress.