Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[Bismarck]

Don't metals have a world market price?

I guess.

You took those peoples' food & water from them and inshaAllah we will give these to them back inshaAllah...

In this forum i stopped politic discussions and after this post i also stop this kind of comments which i made in this post... Untill a second decision of mine... And i don't know if i will make this decision in the future and if i will make this decision i don't know it is when !!!...

I took from whom, what? Ok, doesn't matter. Back to topic. Turkey has large steel companys which can process old tanks.

 

[TeesraIndiotHunter]

O.K, so what are the final specifications of Altay Tank? Any idea yet? What is the unit price?

 

[LegionnairE]

Oh by all means give it to them for free, but how are they going to maintain them or buy spare parts for 50+ year old tank ?

There is more to it then chucking tanks at a country..

We can give some of them with Volkan FCS, and some of them just as spare parts.

Turkey must have around 3000 M48 chassis' only 1500 of them are in service, I don't know what happened to the rest but I'm sure any critical parts were salvaged/cannibalized. We must have a certain amount of spare parts to give away.

We are planning to sell Altay to Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan! These countries have never used a 4-man NATO style tank before. M48s can be good for just training, also this is 55-60 tons of steel here, even in this age they are more armored than any IFV in the world. I wouldn't want that to go to waste

Azerbaijan has T55s ffs compared to those, M48A5T2s are sophisticated machines

 

[[TR]AHMET]

Actually we can use chasis of m48 as AA but FNSS company will be angry to this action

Important thing is that How about the maintenance stuations of m48 and how is engine?

 

[LegionnairE]

Actually we can use chasis of m48 as AA but FNSS company will be angry to this action

Important thing is that How about the maintenance stuations of m48 and how is engine?

How is engine? Horrible, these tanks can barely move, malfunction rates are terribly high and the old benzin engine is nothing but efficient.

only good thing is, the engine block can be taken out and maintained with relative ease

 

[Azeri440]

We can give some of them with Volkan FCS, and some of them just as spare parts.

Turkey must have around 3000 M48 chassis' only 1500 of them are in service, I don't know what happened to the rest but I'm sure any critical parts were salvaged/cannibalized. We must have a certain amount of spare parts to give away.

We are planning to sell Altay to Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan! These countries have never used a 4-man NATO style tank before. M48s can be good for just training, also this is 55-60 tons of steel here, even in this age they are more armored than any IFV in the world. I wouldn't want that to go to waste

Azerbaijan has T55s ffs compared to those, M48A5T2s are sophisticated machines

T-55s have been out of service for a long time
T-90S is the replacement tank

 

[LegionnairE]

T-55s have been out of service for a long time
T-90S is the replacement tank

so... okay then my bad, we can just scrap M48s...

 

[Targon]

@Azeri440

Do you think there is a change of Az getting Altay ? or is it classic "showed interest" thing ? same for T 129.

Azerbaijan seems to be getting their newer stuff from Ukraine(or Russia?), I feel like these talks are nothing but showing good will.

 

[ASQ-1918]

Actually the "interest" for Atak is pretty real, see this:

T129 Helikopteri Azerbaycan'da test edilecek

Altay, I don't think so, not in near future. Azerbaijan has purchased T-90, and plans to acquire more (for instance Azerbaijan has also purchased new Mi-35M from Russia, but they are of different class and bought by border guards. The interest for ATAK would be from the air force).

The arms trade with Ukraine is largely a thing of past decade, when we acquired second-hand stuff, now its shifted towards acquiring new weaponry from Russia, in much larger amounts. But the cooperation with Ukraine has not ceased completly, we buy (new) stuff such as radars, anti-tank missiles, ARV etc. The most important country for Azerbaijan in terms of arms import is Russia now.

 

[LegionnairE]

Altay, I don't think so, not in near future. Azerbaijan has purchased T-90, and plans to acquire more. Perhaps maybe even the newest T-90SM in future, which would be logical.

The arms trade with Ukraine is largely a thing of past decade, when we acquired second-hand stuff, now its shifted towards acquiring new weaponry from Russia, in much larger amounts. But the cooperation with Ukraine has not ceased, we buy (new) stuff such as radars (for BUK), anti-tank missiles, ARV etc. The most important country for Azerbaijan in terms of arms import is Russia now, followed by Israel.

it's okay I just don't think that's a smart policy

You'll keep procuring stuff from Russia and they will donate the same stuff to Armenia, just enough to maintain the status que in causcaus. It's not just I think any T72 or T90 variant is inferior to Altay because they really fucking are. But I don't think Russia is a friend to you.

Instead if you could just wait a couple of years we could produce hundreds of Altay tanks in Azerbaijan.

 

[Armstrong]

Actually the "interest" for Atak is pretty real, see this:

T129 Helikopteri Azerbaycan'da test edilecek

Altay, I don't think so, not in near future. Azerbaijan has purchased T-90, and plans to acquire more (for instance Azerbaijan has also purchased new Mi-35M from Russia, but they are of different class and bought by border guards. The interest for ATAK would be from the air force).

The arms trade with Ukraine is largely a thing of past decade, when we acquired second-hand stuff, now its shifted towards acquiring new weaponry from Russia, in much larger amounts. But the cooperation with Ukraine has not ceased completly, we buy (new) stuff such as radars, anti-tank missiles, ARV etc. The most important country for Azerbaijan in terms of arms import is Russia now.

Is that prudent considering that Russia is also the biggest supporter of Armenia & I've often heard Azerbaijanis say that its actually Russia who's presence in & support for Armenia dissuades Azerbaijan from taking back her disputed territories ? Is it really wise to buy military weapons from the backer of the country you've got territorial issues with ?

 

[ASQ-1918]

it's okay I just don't think that's a smart policy

You'll keep procuring stuff from Russia and they will donate the same stuff to Armenia, just enough to maintain the status que in causcaus. It's not just I think any T72 or T90 variant is inferior to Altay because they really fucking are. But I don't think Russia is a friend to you.

Instead if you could just wait a couple of years we could produce hundreds of Altay tanks in Azerbaijan.

Honestly, all talks of "maintaining the status quo" is largely nonesense, because the amounts are large enough to make a difference. And I definetly don't think Russia will donate "the same stuff", in terms of "donation", we will be talking about second-hand only. I'm not saying whether its right or not to buy weaponry from Russia, but its not that simple either.

T-90 is definetly not the "best tank in the world", but its still modern enough, and far superior to anything else in the region. Of course this is also the case of logistics, infrastructure etc...Avaliability and time should also play a role, definetly.

Anyway, this is off-topic.

 

[Azeri440]

it's okay I just don't think that's a smart policy

You'll keep procuring stuff from Russia and they will donate the same stuff to Armenia, just enough to maintain the status que in causcaus. It's not just I think any T72 or T90 variant is inferior to Altay because they really fucking are. But I don't think Russia is a friend to you.

Instead if you could just wait a couple of years we could produce hundreds of Altay tanks in Azerbaijan.

yes , I agree
the only problem is the engine with Turkey
Azerbaijan has been waiting how long now for their T-155?
3-4 years for first delivery?

@Azeri440

Do you think there is a change of Az getting Altay ? or is it classic "showed interest" thing ? same for T 129.

Azerbaijan seems to be getting their newer stuff from Ukraine(or Russia?), I feel like these talks are nothing but showing good will.

Azerbaijan will start local production of cobras , Arma 8x8 and maybe Ejder
so yes there is definitely a chance

 

[-------]

yes , I agree
the only problem is the engine with Turkey
Azerbaijan has been waiting how long now for their T-155?
3-4 years for first delivery?

Well apparently deliveries to begin this year.. we'll see..

 

[ASQ-1918]

Azerbaijan will start local production of cobras , Arma 8x8 and maybe Ejder

Cobra yes (agreement reached at IDEF-2013), Arma no (I know where you might have heard it, but its a misunderstanding by whoever said it, there was no conract for Arma at IDEF). Ejder were brought to the country for tests, I wonder how that went.