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45 More MiG 29K for Indian Navy.

No, ski-jump take off will reduce the payload by far. These fighters might take off with very limited fuel only, to take more weapons and get refuelled after take off again. That's why this capability will be highly important:

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Thanks for the answer.

I think having a discussion on this issue in this thread will be more informative and constructive. How it will slow down or compromise (degree of) operational capabilities should be discussed and we should consider other options (Jet) able to perform better in this regard. Isn't it ?
 
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If true, it has no relation to Rafale, because Rafale would be procured for IAC 2 only. So just like the follow order of 29, this would be a follow order for commonality reasons and would mainly effect the numbers of N-LCAs, if not kill it completelly. The Mig was procured as a combined order and would have completely failed in a competition, but I still prefer more of the Ks for IN, instead to N-LCAs.
If we have 90+ Mig29k Rafale is not going to come thats for sure even for IAC2 . There is no chance to kill LCA program as they are intended to be shore based fighters and point defence fighters which are must for ACC . More over IN can wait till LCA is developed unlike IAF whose squadrons are diminishing . Navy would not misadventure by having various fighters in its inventory Mig29k,LCA(confirm),AMCA(IN funded it so there is no chance to deny it) . More over Russians might come up with N PAKFA , if we want to go for STVOL , we have F35s . More over Mig29ks come at half cost of Rafale M with almost near capabilities . mean they suit our carrier operations . First you were saying we went for Mig29ks because we were not having option and carrier was Russian . Now you were saying commonality . If commonality was the thing , IAF would have gone for additional Mig29 and Mirages . By the time we get Rafale we would be having operational Mig29ks of equal capabilities (now dont start Vs) and we could get 5th gen aircrafts .
 
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If we have 90+ Mig29k Rafale is not going to come thats for sure even for IAC2 . There is no chance to kill LCA program as they are intended to be shore based fighters and point defence fighters which are must for ACC . More over IN can wait till LCA is developed unlike IAF whose squadrons are diminishing . Navy would not misadventure by having various fighters in its inventory Mig29k,LCA(confirm),AMCA(IN funded it so there is no chance to deny it) . More over Russians might come up with N PAKFA , if we want to go for STVOL , we have F35s . More over Mig29ks come at half cost of Rafale M with almost near capabilities . mean they suit our carrier operations . First you were saying we went for Mig29ks because we were not having option and carrier was Russian . Now you were saying commonality . If commonality was the thing , IAF would have gone for additional Mig29 and Mirages . By the time we get Rafale we would be having operational Mig29ks of equal capabilities (now dont start Vs) and we could get 5th gen aircrafts .
NLCA is a single engine fighter. Mark 1 won't ever see the deck but mark 2 will fly from IAC-1/2. It will be value addition.
AMCA and PAKFA are decade away for navy. So I think they will go for Rafale-M and N-LCA mark 2.
 
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NLCA is a single engine fighter. Mark 1 won't ever see the deck but mark 2 will fly from IAC-1/2. It will be value addition.
AMCA and PAKFA are decade away for navy. So I think they will go for Rafale-M and N-LCA mark 2.
I never said Mk1 or Mk2 . Mk1 might be ordered by Navy for training purpose . Mk2 is for sure .IT will good point defence fighter securing carrier . I wont wonder of Vikramaditya also hosts N LCA . 90 Mig 29 K , 60 LCA , by then 5th gen fighter will be inducted . Wheres the gap now ? First we need to make carrier nah :D . Navy can wait for 1.5 decade to induct 5th gen aircrafts.
 
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Thanks for the answer.

I think having a discussion on this issue in this thread will be more informative and constructive. How it will slow down or compromise (degree of) operational capabilities should be discussed and we should consider other options (Jet) able to perform better in this regard. Isn't it ?

Maybe this article about the changes of Sea Gripen to Gripen NG and between possible versions for STOBAR and CATOBAR carriers:

Saab offers naval Gripen to India

The company is pitching a little-known naval variant of its Gripen NG fighter, called the Sea Gripen, which is intended to be capable of both CATOBAR as well as STOBAR carrier operations...

...According to Peter Nilsson, Gripen’s Vice President of Operational Capabilities, the Sea Gripen is intended for both CATOBAR (Catapult Assisted Take Off But Arrested Recovery) as well as STOBAR (Short Take Off But Arrested Recovery) operations. “There will obviously be differences in the MTOW (Maximum Take-Off Weight). In a CATOBAR concept, the Sea Gripen will have a MTOW of 16,500 kilograms and a maximum landing weight of 11,500 kilograms. In a STOBAR concept it depends on the physics of the carrier. Roughly, the payload of fuel and weapons in STOBAR operations will be one-third less than the payload in CATOBAR operations. There will be no differences in ‘bring-back’ capability,” he says...

Saab offers naval Gripen to India | StratPost


A Gripen NG operated from land bases, will have a payload of 6t - 1/3 = 4t payload for the Sea Gripen for STOBAR carriers like the once IN now gets.

As I said, one solution would be to take of with empty fuel tanks and minimum internal fuel, which leaves more payload for weapons. After take of it would be refuelled by another fighter and then could do it's initial mission.
Howere, this obviously complicates the operational capability of the carrier and that's why IN want CATOBAR carriers as the long term solution.


If we have 90+ Mig29k Rafale is not going to come thats for sure even for IAC2 .

Again, that doesn't make sense! Even if we would procure these Migs, they couldn't be used from a CATOBAR carrier and that's why they wouldn't have any relation to Rafale and IAC2.

There is no chance to kill LCA program as they are intended to be shore based fighters and point defence fighters which are must for ACC .

Wrong, IN don't operate shore based squadrons so all these fighters are meant for carrier operations, or training (N-LCA MK1 are just tech demonstrators). But if 90 x Migs would be procured for 2 x carriers that operates around 20 and 30 fighters, around 40 would remain for reserve and training reasons, leaving no space for N-LCA anymore. That's why I doubt this news is true, although I would prefer this solution!

First you were saying we went for Mig29ks because we were not having option and carrier was Russian . Now you were saying commonality . If commonality was the thing , IAF would have gone for additional Mig29 and Mirages .

Don't twist my words buddy! I said, the first 16 x Migs were a combined order with Gorshkov which is a fact and that lead IN with no other option although they were interested in Rafale and F18SH.
The follow order of 29 to be operated on IAC1, was nothing but logical choice, because N-LCA still needs time and the Migs offer commonality for both carriers, be it in terms of weapons, spares or even training.

Btw, IAF wanted more Mirage 2000 for commonality reasons and not new Migs, but MoD scrapped MRCA and started MMRCA. :D
 
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If we have 90+ Mig29k Rafale is not going to come thats for sure even for IAC2 . There is no chance to kill LCA program as they are intended to be shore based fighters and point defence fighters which are must for ACC . More over IN can wait till LCA is developed unlike IAF whose squadrons are diminishing . Navy would not misadventure by having various fighters in its inventory Mig29k,LCA(confirm),AMCA(IN funded it so there is no chance to deny it) . More over Russians might come up with N PAKFA , if we want to go for STVOL , we have F35s . More over Mig29ks come at half cost of Rafale M with almost near capabilities . mean they suit our carrier operations . First you were saying we went for Mig29ks because we were not having option and carrier was Russian . Now you were saying commonality . If commonality was the thing , IAF would have gone for additional Mig29 and Mirages . By the time we get Rafale we would be having operational Mig29ks of equal capabilities (now dont start Vs) and we could get 5th gen aircrafts .


i don't think so navy will go for rafale only for IAC2 becoz it will have catapult and mig29K can't be launched using it:no:
 
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I think that IN wants to buy 50 in the first phase which they already ordered and 50 in the next phase and may be some 30 Rafael too. I don't think so that IN actually in every way loves LCA, but they will/might acquire it for dignity.
 
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I think that IN wants to buy 50 in the first phase which they already ordered and 50 in the next phase and may be some 30 Rafael too. I don't think so that IN actually in every way loves LCA, but they will/might acquire it for dignity.

IN loves indigenous technology more than any other service in India, IN desperately want a NLCA & thus it contributed for it's development, if the DRDO & HAL give a good response to the IN, i see no reason why IN will not include at least 60 NLCA to it's fleet.

+ the original order was for 16 mig 29k, than 29 more were ordered, if this news is true than IN will have total of 90 mig 29k, apart from that i am of the opinion that IN will ultimately go for Rafale M after the Rafales are inducted in the IAF, so add 50-60 Rafales also.

@Nishan or any Pak member here, can u shed light on how PN will develop the strategy to tackle around 200 IN fighters in the future??
 
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Really Amazing to see that INAF is going for about 100+ MiG-29Ks and 60+ RafaelM/N which means more carriers. Yeah! PN is panning just to defend the home land waters and not to intervene in Indian Ocean. For N-LCA I am quite sure will be used for Coastal Patrols and not on expeditionary Missions like MiG-29Ks and RafaelM/N.
 
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can u shed light on how PN will develop the strategy to tackle around 200 IN fighters in the future??

They don't need to, because that's not their priority, not to forget that IN can't deploy 200 fighters at once anyway (Gorshkov around 20, IAC1 around 30, IAC2 around 50 possibly).

For N-LCA I am quite sure will be used for Coastal Patrols and not on expeditionary Missions like MiG-29Ks and RafaelM/N.

No, because IN has no shorebased squads and roles, that is IAFs field.
 
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They don't need to, because that's not their priority, not to forget that IN can't deploy 200 fighters at once anyway (Gorshkov around 20, IAC1 around 30, IAC2 around 50 possibly).



No, because IN has no shorebased squads and roles, that is IAFs field.
Actually IN does have shore based fighter squadrons..................
INS Hansa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Actually IN does have shore based fighter squadrons..................
INS Hansa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IN fighters are based at INS Hansa but they are not shore-based fighters rather just not deployed to ACCs ATM. Of course in time of war they could be used from land should no ACCs be available or urgent need for all assets to be used but they are not designated to be used as interceptors in Goa, that is still the IAF's sole responsibility.
 
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1 squardon of Mig-29... Lol. That will be headache to PAF.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3067812

Kindly read the entire post.........

He clearly mentioned that with Naval arm growing to almost 150 4.5 gen fighters and the possibility of using Tajik base (if you have a base it will take you 5-8 hours to put another squadron of Su-30 from Pune...its about a footprint) PAF will now face possible threat from previously non-existent directions.
 
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