Why Hindi-Urdu is One Language and Arabic is Several

[53fd]

Man, if you are saying that the common man, before 1947, was spouting foreign words like Ghalib, then all I can say is that you need to go and get help.

I'm saying no one talked like the Shudh Hindi at that time that you hear in India today. No one talked Shudh Hindi prior to 1947. All the famous Urdu/Hindustani poets have not written in Shudh Hindi. They have not used Devanagari. Khari Boli has a huge influence in Urdu.

 

[53fd]

There was no conspiary theory it. The standard Hindi is the standard version of Khariboli ,hence no major Urdu influence.

Khariboli existed for hundreds of years , not exactly new language.

Khari Boli and other Sanskrit based languages are a huge chunk of Urdu, not foreign to it. Urdu is not Arabic or Persian. This has been discussed numerous times before. Khari Boli is neither Hindi or Urdu.

 

[Vinod2070]

The common man in that time did not use the Shudh Hindi used in India today by certain politicians & others. Shudh Hindi was nothing but an artificial creation of post 1947 India, and no one spoke like that prior to 1947. However, there were many people who spoke the kind of Urdu you hear Ghalib, Iqbal, Bahadur Shah Zafar & many others speak. Hindustani language you call today is nothing but Urdu. Which is why the Indian establishment post 1947 tried to 'purify' the Hindustani language (aka Urdu), by removing the Arabic/Persian derived words from the language & replacing them with Sanskrit derived words. Why would they feel the need to create a new artificial language known as Shudh Hindi (that no one spoke prior to 1947) from 'Hindustani' in 1947 if it weren't for their insecurity of Muslims & their language 'Hindustani' (aka Urdu)?

Is Urdu also artificial then?

It was created by adding some words to the Khari Boli!

If that is natural, why is removing those words artificial?

 

[LaBong]

Is Urdu also artificial then?

It was created by adding some words to the Khari Boli!

If that is natural, why is removing those words artificial?

That was more of an organic change while Sudhh Hindi is artificial. However the street language of Northen India has changed organically since independence and shed off bulky Sanskrit and Persian words.

 

[53fd]

Is Urdu also artificial then?

It was created by adding some words to the Khari Boli!

If that is natural, why is removing those words artificial?

Because Urdu underwent a natural process, by the amalgamation of Muslim rulers (with Persian/Azeri backgrounds) with the locals (speaking Sanskrit derived languages). Obviously, because these Muslim rulers were forming families in the Indian subcontinent over hundreds of years, the influence of Sanskrit derived languages was always greater than the Persian/Arabic/Azeri influence from the Muslim rulers, although their influence was still significant. It took Urdu hundreds & hundreds of years to develop, it developed naturally & organically, eventually displacing Persian as the court language of India. Which is why Urdu is such a refined language. At least "high-class Urdu" was spoken at the time by some people, no one prior to 1947 spoke Shudh Hindi as we know it today. There are no examples present of Shudh Hindi being used in literary works centuries ago, unlike Urdu.

Shudh Hindi is an artificial creation of post 1947 India, automatically instilled by the Indian government to 'purify' the language & making it more Shudh, by replacing all the Arabic/Persian derived words from the language, & replacing them with Sanskrit based ones. It never underwent a natural process like Urdu.

 

[53fd]

And the reason why Shudh Hindi had to be created by the Indian government was because of their insecurity towards Muslims and their language Urdu/Hindustani immediately after 1947. Remember, Hindustani spoken in India today (by Muslims or Hindus) has a huge influence of Arabic/Persian derived words, and the Indian government right after 1947 wanted to trivialize the language: which is why they concocted Shudh Hindi.

 

[Vinod2070]

Khari Boli and other Sanskrit based languages are a huge chunk of Urdu, not foreign to it. Urdu is not Arabic or Persian. This has been discussed numerous times before. Khari Boli is neither Hindi or Urdu.

Why are you going in circles and tying yourself in knots?

What is you exact point?

 

[53fd]

Why are you going in circles and tying yourself in knots?

What is you exact point?

Read post 230 and 231.

 

[Manas]

Khari Boli and other Sanskrit based languages are a huge chunk of Urdu, not foreign to it. Urdu is not Arabic or Persian. This has been discussed numerous times before. Khari Boli is neither Hindi or Urdu.

If you think Kharliboli, Baraj Bhasa, Awadhi dilects has chunk of huge chunk of Urdu words in it. Then hats off to your knowledge.

Ramcharitmanas was an epic poem in Awadhi deliect (of Utter Pradesh), composed by the 16th-century Indian poet, Goswami Tulsidas ijn 1574.
If you can find a single Urdu word in it ???

Urdu or Farsi words may used in day to day life to describe Islamic artifacts or Islamic systems of govt of the time, but that doesn't make the language itself Urdu .I may use engilsh words e,g Chair, or glass while talking Hindi language , but the doesn't make the language English. It still remains Hindi language with English words thrown in.

 

[Vinod2070]

And the reason why Shudh Hindi had to be created by the Indian government was because of their insecurity towards Muslims and their language Urdu/Hindustani immediately after 1947. Remember, Hindustani spoken in India today (by Muslims or Hindus) has a huge influence of Arabic/Persian derived words, and the Indian government right after 1947 wanted to trivialize the language: which is why they concocted Shudh Hindi.

It can be just seen as getting rid of foreign influence after regaining our freedom and coming up with a standard version of the language.

Why should we care for foreign words? We can get rid of them when we want.

Was it just the Muslim language as you claim? It has been proved that it was a local language mixed with some foreign words that can be discarded with no effect on the language.

 

[metro]

If you pronounce 'pareshaan' as pareSaan, 'zor' as Jor. You can't even pronounce the 'KH' sound in words like 'Khaas'. You pronounce 'phir' as F-ir. You clearly bastardized the Urdu language, changed the script from Nastaliq to Devanagari, and called it Hindi.

oh my.
so do you mean to imply that "sh" sound doesnt exist in hindi at all ?
shani, shatrughan, nishay, nishabd etc. are few examples of this.

im a haryanvi, and in my state we dont speak any urdu word in our normal communication. And its very normal for a person like me to pronounce zor as jor. becoz my tongue is been trained in particular way.

 

[53fd]

If think Kharliboli, Baraj Bhasa, Awadhi dilects has chunk of huge chunk of Urdu words in it. Then hats off to your knowledge.

Ramcharitmanas was an epic poem in Awadhi deliect (of Utter Pradesh), composed by the 16th-century Indian poet, Goswami Tulsidas ijn 1574.
If you can single Urdu word in it ???
[/B]

The poets you are quoting are from the 16th century. The earliest Urdu poets like Amir Khusro are found in the 13th century, more than 300 years before Goswami Tulsidas.

Urdu or Farsi words may used in day to day life to describe Islamic artifacts or Islamic systems of govt of the time, but that doesn't make the language itself Urdu .I may use engilsh words e,g Chair, or glass while talking Hindi language , but the doesn't make the language Endlish. It still remains Hindi language with English words thrown in.

You do not understand what I'm saying. There was no such language such as Hindi/Hindustani in India, it was Urdu. Why did the Indian government feel the need to purify their 'Hindi/Hindustani' by removing Arabic/Persian derived words from the language, & creating an artificial language known as Shudh Hindi in 1947, especially when no one talked like that prior to 1947? High class Urdu can be found from the 13th century onwards, used in courts, poems and all kinds of other literary works.

 

[Vinod2070]

I'm saying no one talked like the Shudh Hindi at that time that you hear in India today. No one talked Shudh Hindi prior to 1947. All the famous Urdu/Hindustani poets have not written in Shudh Hindi. They have not used Devanagari. Khari Boli has a huge influence in Urdu.

You gave an example of Ghalib's poetry that most people in India could never understand. You are mighty confused.

If Shudh Hindi was not the colloquial language, so was that kind of artificial heavily Persianized language!

Frankly, just get over it. India doesn't need your advice about our own languages.

 

[53fd]

It can be just seen as getting rid of foreign influence after regaining our freedom and coming up with a standard version of the language.

Why should we care for foreign words? We can get rid of them when we want.

But they are not foreign words, are they? They have been used since the 13th century in the Indian subcontinent. Urdu has had a natural development over centuries, Shudh Hindi hasn't. However, no one spoke Shudh Hindi in India before 1947. Just goes to show your insecurity of Muslims & their language. They 'immigrated' to your lands centuries ago, just like Indians immigrate to the US & become American citizens. Just like Indus river does not flow through India, but it has some claim to the Indus Valley Civilization as some people from the original Indus Valley Civilization in the region of present day Pakistan migrated to India, and formed their own civilizations. There is such a thing as naturalization & immigration, so even the Persian/Arabic derived words are not foreign.

 

[Vinod2070]

Because Urdu underwent a natural process, by the amalgamation of Muslim rulers (with Persian/Azeri backgrounds) with the locals (speaking Sanskrit derived languages).

What is so natural about those invaders mixing their languages with a local one?

Their whole presence in India was unnatural.