Why does our Navy fail so horribly?

[mehmeTcc]

Iran's navy is a joke instead. They're classifying 1300-tonnes ship as a destroyer. (By this logic, our 2300-tonnes Milgem Class Corvette is a battleship)

Pakistan doesn't need a strong naval force, i think. You guys are doing right, focusing on land and air.

 

[Penguin]

Iran's navy is a joke instead. They're classifying 1300-tonnes ship as a destroyer. (By this logic, our 2300-tonnes Milgem Class Corvette is a battleship)

Explained before: THe ships in question (Saam / Alvand class and domestically built follow ons) where initially classified in the Imperial Iranian navy as Destroyer-Escorts (USN WW2 parlance), which is equivalant of frigate (RN ww2 parlance). Whether deliberate or by accodent, it is easy to see that the 'escort' portion got forgotten/deleted.

THe original classification/pennent: IIS Saam (DE-71)

 

[Penguin]

You cannot be free nation unless your Airforce and Navy is free

By this definition, there are only very very few free nations.... (including in western europe)

 

[Shinigami]

Listen, there is nothing fail about PN. PN is essentially a coastal maritime Naval force and there is nothing to be embarrassed about it. Israel's Navy also is a coastal force. Now this is not some term coined by me but by professionals in the defense business. It essentially means that you are not going to go miles to invade someone but rather stick to your shores.

I think PN is doing a fine job defending Pakistani coastline from any external aggression. You are getting timely supplies from China and in some cases from Italy and US too. What more do you want? Since you have a limited portion of the Arabian Sea, you're guarding it very well. Just be content guys. And stand proud of your Navy.

exactly. many pakistani fanboys feel that since PN is not as good as IN, they have to be ashamed of it.

 

[Nishan_101]

Although if our Navy has decided in late 1990s that there are going to do JV with China in SSKs, SSBNs, Frigates, Corvettes and FAcs then the condition now will be totally different. Our GoP should have also prefer that the three Shipyards should be build ASAP as well as the Ormara Naval Base that has many special things that are required by our Navy along with the future plan of building Pasni and Thatta as the future port.

 

[Penguin]

exactly. many pakistani fanboys feel that since PN is not as good as IN, they have to be ashamed of it.

In the piece you quoted, there was no mention of IN at all. So, by introducing the italicized portion, you are playing games. Go do that somehwere else, please. I like IN but it is in many ways (also) flawed. Then again, even the Dutch navy is flawed (yes, we do actually still have a navy: 4x 6k ton frigates, some smaller ships and 2 big LPDs and a pair of AORs > just enough to land some marines in Surinam if need be

 

[JorgeH]

oh my....

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Pakistan Navy does not exist-

we all know in case of a war- All the frigates and destroyers will be docked to save them-
Just like we did with our airforce in 71- and 99-

The problem with minimum deterrence policy is- it will not work in case of Navy- simple as that-
Instead of offensive we would be busy trying to evade the blockade-

Couldn't have said it better my self, seriously this apologetic minimum deterrence policy will get us nowhere
defending our shore is not enough nor is it a safe strategy unless we think of securing our supply route which if history in anything to go by we haven't. We never thought about the most important aspect of what about escorting & securing our supply lines & routes just imagine the importance of a maritime coastal force viz-viz securing supply line route capability in today Geo- political environment which will be only possible if we have a truly Green water navy (of which sadly no considerations has been given to it other then this idiotic preference of our navy is just for defending our coastline), heck even Netherlands who's coast line is only about 451 km compare to Pakistan's 1046 km ! is a fully recognized Green water navy . the best example for Pakistan will undoubtedly be that of south Korea which is a strong Green water navy, it has the same size as Pakistan's coastline yet unlike us' it can thwart any attempt to disrupt its supply routs by much bigger & stronger navies in their region. The most important aspect of having a Green water navy is its blockade breaking capability, what we really need is to get out of this brown water zone mindset & gradually transform the PN to a truly capable defensive & offensive Green water navy we need to shun this minimum deterrence policy & adopt a defensive & offensive deterrence policy, power are projected by those who are dead serious to make a mark in the Geo-political arena & not by those who's only concerns is defending we must get out of this mentality ASAP.

 

[SBD-3]

Admit it or not, our Navy isn't that great. The Turks and Iranians are way ahead of us, and we're left far behind.

We have what, about 11-12 ships? The Turks and Iranians have 260+. The Iranians have 19 submarines, the Turks have about 16, while we only have 5.

At least we're ahead of the Turks and many other countries in terms of destroyers. We have 1, Iran has 4, Turkey has 0.

But, what I'm getting at is, our Navy is extremely bad. Our Navy should work on improving itself. We're good in the air, but in an all out war, we would lose horrifically fast in the sea. If we're able to get more ships and submarines, we already have nuclear subs, we will advance our sea power horrifically fast, rivaling only that of other nuclear countries.


Total Navy Ship Strength by Country

Total Submarine Strength by Country

Total Navy Destroyer Strength by Country

Before opening a thread, do look at their detailed strenghts
Turkey

Total Navy Ships: 265
Merchant Marine Strength: 645 [2011]
Major Ports & Terminals: 8
Aircraft Carriers: 0 [2011]
Destroyers: 0 [2011]
Submarines: 16 [2011]
Frigates: 19 [2011]
Patrol Craft: 108 [2011]
Mine Warfare Craft: 20 [2011]
Amphibious Assault Craft: 55 [2011]
Iran
Total Navy Ships: 261
Merchant Marine Strength: 74 [2011]
Major Ports & Terminals: 3
Aircraft Carriers: 0 [2011]
Destroyers: 3 [2011]
Submarines: 19 [2011]
Frigates: 5 [2011]
Patrol Craft: 198 [2011]
Mine Warfare Craft: 7 [2011]
Amphibious Assault Craft: 26 [2011]
PN is pretty much at par in terms of Combat Capabilities.In terms of quality, Turks do operate a modern fleet, absolutely no doubt about it. Their sub fleet consists upon proven U-boats. However, same can not be said about Iran (Kilo class and some domestic small size subs). The apparent edge in patrol boats is due to the fact that their territorial waters are much broader than ours

Now look at Pakistan's sea territory vis-a-vis Iran

Hope this clears on topic

 

[yyetttt]

Our Navy is to fail horribly when they don't get equal money from the government!

 

[Rank]

if we have PKR 100 for defence....
PKR 48 is taken by army
PKR 32 is taken by airforce
whats left for the navy PKR 20.... and then you expect this navy to stand up against an adversary which is 5 times larger in every aspect. under the circumstances the navy does a commendable job with the resources it has.

forget to mention in 20 rs 10 >>> corruption!

 

[S.Y.A]

well i believe if we improve relations with our neighboring countries, we would be satisfied with this navy, but we want to fight with every country on the world.

 

[karan21]

well i believe if we improve relations with our neighboring countries, we would be satisfied with this navy, but we want to fight with every country on the world.

haha good one.

 

[Doctor09]

well i believe if we improve relations with our neighboring countries, we would be satisfied with this navy, but we want to fight with every country on the world.

you need both hands for clapping .

 

[Storm Force]

IN ANSER

PAK fails its navy due to resources or more simply MONEY $$$

modern frigates cost $500m each

destroyers $1 billion

nuke subs $1 billion

aircraft carriers $3 billion

NAVY is a BIG COST GAME

Budget of $1 billion a year would barely cover wages and fue costs. for pakistan