What you would want the PAF to be.

[Bratva]

Oh bhai.. ASELSAN ke radio pe mein ne kaam kiya hai..voice , security and others are all our own.. Trust me.. the Turkish stuff is way way better than the other maal. At least it does not fry every other day. All these systems go through NRTC..
Sab khula hai for information in this country...the only thing is the people dont know where to look.
http://www.nrtc.com.pk/pdfs/9600.pdf
These are basically ASELSAN PRC 9600 series
Aselsan | PRC/VRC-9661 VHF/UHF Software Defined Radio

The same way.. you can easily find on the internet who has been importing spares for the F-16s during the embargo and who still gets stuff like tyres for them. Just as you can find out which small firm has been working with 3d accelerometers and Gyro's for our missiles. Its plain there.



If you speak of any of them.. they are utterly convinced that there will be no war with India.

If I may assume,,, Communication systems of Al Khalid that you worked on is based on ASELSAN SDR's?

 

[Luftwaffe]

This thread is dedicated to posting scenario's for the PAF if the economy from 2005 was continued and there was still marginal growth in the country. You aren't ****** rich, but things can be afforded. Please come up with your ideas here.

As a start. Had the 2005 Earthquake not hit.. or even if it did..
The PAF should have stuck to 36 F-16Block 52s along with some 70 odd F-16 MLU's. In addition, they could have purchased the Qatari Mirages for Strike and DACT. Instead of the ZDK, more SAAB's should have been procured along with LIFT like JL-9.
The PAF should go to 200 JF-17s and perhaps look to upgrade the F-7PG's into F-7X configuration.

Hi, could you tell us more about F-7X configuration.

Could have been realistic provided good amount of cash in coffers:

All 12 Qatari -5 Mirages

24 U.A.E Mirage 2000-9 [mix fleet of older -5 upgraded to -9 and the newer delivered -9]

36 new Block 52 F-16s, 28 Additional Block 30 to MLUs 50/52 apart from the Original Numbers 45 being sent for MLU.
[All 36 New F-16s receive AESA, 28 Block 30 MLU receive AESA]

In pipeline ZDK-03 and additional 2 SAABs [+4].

Radars and SAMs! High Altitude HQ series in good numbers.

Agreed on 200 JFT Block I/II/III specifications but that would already be a separate development/purchase.

IL-78s modernization fully glass cockpit.

C-130s modernization fully glass cockpit

 

[SQ8]

If I may assume,,, Communication systems of Al Khalid that you worked on is based on ASELSAN SDR's?

Yeah.. see the big one.. with the thing below it in the brochure.. that is basically an amp.
The radio is quite modular. However, it is not at all linked to the new IBMS research... and has no co-ordination with it.. something that in my view would have been better but perhaps that is how the higher ups saw it best.

Hi, could you tell us more about F-7X configuration.

Although I am not exactly sure if the above is official.. but the F-7MF did exist

 

[MilSpec]

will paf threat perception be limited to india?

 

[Luftwaffe]

Not sure about F-7X it would be an all together new Aircraft and could have competed with JF-17, since the Thread is sort of wishlist, I would have wanted PAF to invested more in JF-17 to make it F-16 class fighter without needing to upgrade or develop F-7[PG TO X or X as a new development]

 

[SQ8]

will paf threat perception be limited to india?

It will probably be, there is little in terms of foriegn air forces that are:

A. Truly a threat and require better weapons than what we have.

B. Overwhelmingly powerful that the PAF has little hope of putting more than a feeble fight to them

The perception keeps the possibility that Pakistan might go to war with India.. but the war will be short and focused on protecting key assets and forcing the nuclear standoff. Basically , a threat that this will go nuclear very quick if hostilities do not end; the endgame is to call India's bluff and survive till a decision is made by India.

invested more in JF-17 to make it F-16 class fighter without needing to upgrade or develop F-7[PG TO X or X as a new development]

technically, all you need is a better engine and better construction methods.. The JF-17 was designed from the outset to have better ACM capabilities than the F-16. Or rather.. be optimized for a greater range of combat speeds. At the same time, it was also supposed to cost a lot less than the F-16..and so essentially trying to make it into one will negate its very purpose.. and cost effectiveness.

 

[Jango]

For the upteenth time---the 2005 earthquake is just an excuse put forward by the pak air force.

The air force had decided well before the earthquake that there was no threat from india anymore. For that treason they did not diligently pursue the purchase of an aircraft on a fast track----specially for a country sanctioned for 10 plus years---all aircraft being obsolete---paf acted like there were no worries.

Back in 2005 I don't think the PAF was so convinced that India poses 'no' threat. If you see the Abbottabad report, the CAS mentions that in 2004 the defense policy regarded India as the prime threat and PAF responded like that. They geared their defenses towards India and that policy continued till around 2010.

After that, even though officially the defense policy of 2004 was being implemented, but PAF had realized the urgent need of linking up with the Army for terror ops. By that time they realized that India threat is now secondary.

So saying that they had made up their mind 'well before the earthquake that India poses no threat' would be taking it a bit too far. That realization came after 2009-2010. In 2008 the situation got a bit tense as well, with a couple of IAF incursions in Pakistan as well.

 

[raazh]

AoA, I think we are ok in terms of PAF. I reckon it wouldn't have been a good idea to dedicate more resources into the Mirage & Saab programs. Whatever we have received so far (F16blk52 and Saabs) should be enough for us to have an insight into modern western systems, bcz I don't think our future is aligned with the Nato.

If PAF have spare money then it should be religiously dedicated towards JV/R&D with the Chinese programs bcz I believe our future is with them. They might not be at par with the Western systems at the moment; however slowly and surely they will be there within the nxt 5-7 years. I base my predictions on the sheer nos of engineers and cash at disposal with the Chinese State Run companies and their willingness to share that with us.

Reg F7-X version. I think that project would have faced the same limitations as of JF17 i.e. (lack of reliable/powerful Chinese engine and therefore limited load capacity).

All in all what we need is a real leadership and elimination of corruption and nepotism in all departments including the armed forces. If we can ensure strict following of merit is all these departments then I can guarantee you that within 5-10 years we can ourself make defense systems at par with the Europeans.

 

[MilSpec]

Imperative to PAF is ws13, jf17's future and j31's potential relies on this engine...

 

[Kompromat]

I'll let you guys speculate on the fleet numbers. For me however had 05 earthquake not happened, and economy grew marginally,id have following areas to invest.

1: PAF Public school sargodha and Muree to expand the number of cadet intake per year who will be guaranteed a career in PAF.

From the age of 16 depending on their attitude,they should be taught military subjects according to their area of interest. Air defense,GDP,Engineers,Cyber defence etc should be taught at a young age.

2: Improve security at PAF bases to a network centric apparatus, and expand the intelligence network to avoid Mehran,Kamra like fiascos.

3: Buy/Collaborate real time spy satellite access to plan operations and increase situational awareness.

4: Form an anti corruption body in PAF intelligence.

5: Invest in high tech areas of R&D like UCAVs and MALE USAVs,to be used in COIN ops.

6: Introduce international standard BVR combat training at DACT school in PAF base mushaf. As well as a fully integrated ACMI based simulated exercise environment.

7: Buy 7-8 refuelers and more C-130S. Upgrade a handful of C-130s for CAS.

8: Increase SSW's operational potential in asset protection and S&R.

9: Make the best of our bright combat record and turn Pakistan into a hub for combat training and specialized courses.

10: Invest in a fully integrated sky shield, with long range ground based AESA radars to supplement the AWACs linked with point defence,short range,medium range and long range SAMs as well as networked AAA.

11: Buy 4-6 more Electronic warfare and attack air craft,as well as upgraded JF-17s to carry dedicated EW payload.

12: Create a GIS database of Pakistan and hostile nation's terrain. For future operations.

13: A dedicated cyber warfare division.

 

[TOPGUN]

This is what it should have been looking like in the future as per my thoughts

1. 100 / F-16's mixed A,B,C & D,s all blk's older,mlu and new blk 52's

2. 200 / JF-17 Thunders blk 1,2 & 3

3. 36 / J-10's

4. 40-50 / F7-PG's

5. 40 / Mirages / rose upgraded with air to air refueling and night capability can be replaced later when their life span runs out with 36 J-11's if possible and if funds are there etc.

5. 3 / ZDK-03's

6. 4 / SAAB's restore the ones that were heavily damaged if possible

6. 4 / IL-78 Re-fuel aircraft's



Upgrades to all C-130's and K-8's / Upgrades to all PAF bases air defense (HIGH ALT SAM'S) are much needed and in the near future look towards a 5th Gen aircraft with our Chinese friends. These are realistic thoughts and visions with given the current and near future of Pakistan's problems the rest we shall have to see and hope for the best just my thoughts. I like to live in a real world with real time, thoughts and visions but again I can be wrong thought I share my views thanks.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I think we should think about maintaining the following levels of Fighter aircrafts by year 2025:

F-16__________________100

Mirage (Rose)___________75
III & V

F-7 PG_________________75

JF-17 Blk-1_____________50

JF-17 Blk-2_____________50

JF-17 Blk-3____________100

J-10B_________________150

J-11___________________50

J-31 (5th Gen)__________ 50


Total Fighters__________750


I would also like to see Pakistan Air Force Equipped with State of the Art AIR DEFENCE SYSTEM.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

I think we should think about maintaining the following levels of Fighter aircrafts:

F-16__________________100

Mirage (Rose)___________75
III & V

F-7 PG_________________75

JF-17 Blk-1_____________50

JF-17 Blk-2_____________50

JF-17 Blk-3____________100

J-10B_________________150

J-11___________________50

J-31 (5th Gen)__________ 50


Total Fighters__________750


I would also like to see Pakistan Air Force Equipped with State of the Art AIR DEFENCE SYSTEM.

What would be the acquisition and running costs of such a fleet, Sir?

 

[Pakistanisage]

What would be the acquisition and running costs of such a fleet, Sir?

You are looking at an acquisition cost of close to 10 to 12 Billion USD Spread over next 10 to 15 years.

The running costs should be within the PAF Budget.

This will only be possible if our Economy improves.

Otherwise these ambitions would have to be scaled back somewhat.

 

[SQ8]

You are looking at an acquisition cost of close to 10 to 12 Billion USD Spread over next 10 to 15 years.

The running costs should be within the Budget of PAF Budget.

This will only be possible if our Economy improves.

Otherwise these ambitions would have to be scaled back somewhat.

Which is why I gave the $0.5 billion figure per year for five years. (although in reality, it would very well be spread out over five years with $100 million a year)