The Rafale Factor and Options for the PAF

[Signalian]

You missed the point of J-10 TVC demonstration actually.

However, does LO defines only 5th Gen ACs? The equipment on board and some other characteristics may come in handy by 4th generation planes for LO category or not?

Different parameters can define 5th Gen like Australian Military says that fifth-generation fighter aircraft are characterised by very low-observability including internal weapons bays, and vastly improved situational awareness through a network-centric combat environment.

Steps taken in reduction of RCS for LO are being applied in contemporary aircraft also such as RAM coating.
Treatments can be applied to existing designs to reduce RCS
o Apply surface coatings and edge treatments
o Reshape intakes and engine ducts
o Upgrade antennas and sensors

Situational awareness and network centric capability through radar/sensors/data link/avionics on aircraft and support from AEW platform is a major part of modern airforces and their aircrafts.

A major technical difference between 4/4.5 generation and 5 Generation would be internal weapon carriage.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

When a major weapons system is replaced---it is not replaced to compensate for what you had prior to it---.

It is replaced to meet and compete and overcome enemy's major weapons system--.

So when someone says that the JF17 is better than the mirage3/5---A5's---F7PG's---it is like saying "I like my image in the mirror---I like to kiss myself in the mirror---"---.

being better than the 3 has nothing to do with the real world---it is by default of being produced in a different decade---.

Just because we are replacing the older aircraft---does not mean we are fighting those aircraft---we are fighting enemy aircraft---and that is what the ratings need to be directed against---.

 

[raja786]

Am not sure why do you bring Allah into the thread.. God got nothing to do with wars .. don't bring Gods into your fight..

If you are not sure then read about it my friend. Allah gives commands where when and how to fight with enemies. We dont have Gods we have one and only Allah. And dont just pick few words out of my post to highlight something that you are not sure about. My post is about how we down played the mighty SU30 and Mirages with help of Allah.

 

[StormBreaker]

Hi,

When a major weapons system is replaced---it is not replaced to compensate for what you had prior to it---.

It is replaced to meet and compete and overcome enemy's major weapons system--.

So when someone says that the JF17 is better than the mirage3/5---A5's---F7PG's---it is like saying "I like my image in the mirror---I like to kiss myself in the mirror---"---.

being better than the 3 has nothing to do with the real world---it is by default of being produced in a different decade---.

Just because we are replacing the older aircraft---does not mean we are fighting those aircraft---we are fighting enemy aircraft---and that is what the ratings need to be directed against---.

In short, Addressing the current needs...

 

[raja786]

I dont think we are going to buy anything new in near future. We are not even doing any window shopping as of yet. So please stop all this comparing and option stuff, our main objective is defending and we are doing that pretty good. You guys are like my little kid who always wants flashy toys.
We have got a decent programme going and we are making alot of progress in it with Chinese help and few other friendly countries. So our only way forward is our own 5th gen system give it 10 years. Hopefully we will be making our own 5th gen fighters in PAC in 10/15 years time.
For now enjoy block3 and see what it really is about. If SU30 gets killed then everything els is on cards. Indian air force went running to make Rafael deal after 27th so what's after Rafael when another 27th comes in play.

 

[Incog_nito]

Privatization would be done to improve the economy not to buy more planes.....

Defence is a must needed element of every country.

 

[khanasifm]

I guess to keep the minimum deterrence, PAF needs to acquire these:

50+ EF-2000s
22+ F-16s Block-52s.
xx used F-16s A/B with MLU-4 from the US as they have a lot of them.

I'm sure Pakistan can pay for this in the near future as they have to pay in 5 years' time, not in a month. Privatization would enable us to have more money in our hands.

Rafael typhoon f-16 grippen has enough hard points ie 10 or more so it can have swing role or in same single mission of say 2/3 hours can carry a2a a2g and a2s load to carry out all tasks and then return

 

[TsAr]

Defence is a must needed element of every country.

without strong economy there would be no country....

 

[MastanKhan]

In short, Addressing the current needs...

Indeed—-addressing the current meed and staying ahead of the enemy—-.

without strong economy there would be no country....

Incorrect—.

That once broke nation was and is called Israel.

it was when PM Golda Meir chose not the teachings but the actual doings of Prophet Mohammad Pbuh—-.

And All of you keep yelling about the bad economy at the top of your lungs and let world know so that your enemy keeps destroying our economy at every chance that it gets and at every step possible.

 

[kursed]

Pakistan's response to Rafale in the near future is pretty simple.

1. New generation of sigint systems, new-gen low-level radars and high frequency OTH radar systems.
2. Block 3, new tactics with longer sticks and AESA radars
3. New EW equipment, both stand off and integrated with air crafts.

This seems pretty much it for now. Unless a new bird is introduced to the ORBAT.

 

[MastanKhan]

 

[Armchair]

Saving this image to teach in a class next time I get that chance.

 

[Basel]

tell me when its loaded man

Send some of your MKIs and M2Ks then you will know about it.

The problem is that the electronics is old, and noone is spending any significant money on development of capabilities. All new stuff beeing developed for Tranche-2 and 3 are incompatible with Tranche-1.
You would not be able to add any weapons, or any new things, because managers behind the program will not spend any effort in maintaining the software. It pays off much better to further develop Tranche 2 & 3 than to develop for Tranche-1. The electronics probably contain plenty of parts which are no longer in production, and you can get grounded permanently because of a broken transistor which cannot be replaced.
The life of the airframe is unlikely to be the cause of grounding.

Why those can't be MLUed with 3rd party systems ?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Send some of your MKIs and M2Ks then you will know about it.

Why those can't be MLUed with 3rd party systems ?

MLUs typically require knowledge which may not be available.
How do You get access to source code?
3rd parties typically want invest their precious development resources in something that can generate follow on business.

 

[Basel]

MLUs typically require knowledge which may not be available.
How do You get access to source code?
3rd parties typically want invest their precious development resources in something that can generate follow on business.

In MLU whole avionics package and other stuff can be replaced so no issue of source codes with new ones.