What should be done to Increase Religious tolerance in Pakistan/ serious Discussion

[BATMAN]

Islam doesn't promote someone being below another

Islam also gave protection to the churches, to Jews etc. and that was during the time when Abu Bakar Siddique r.a. was khalifa.

 

[airmarshal]

Its surprising to see Muslim hate Islam more than anyone else.

This is the level of tolerance among educated class, what to talk about those reading Islam under semi-literate mullahs.

The thread was about education and tolerance. But derailed by cheap mentions of Khulfa e Rashedeen or secular vs Islam debate.

I would say, if we cant discuss, such topics should be discouraged on this forum.

 

[Dubious]

You should not insult Bukhari and Shibli naumani !! they are the only two historians being quoted here . Better edit your post

Shibli Nomani wasnt even a Historian to begin with...All he did was collected accounts...Anyone could have told him anything not being a Historian he wouldnt know which account was correct or which was wrong....

He collected much material on the life of Prophet of Islam, Muhammad but could write only first two volumes of the planned work the Sirat-un-Nabi. His disciple, Syed Sulaiman Nadvi, made use of this material and added his own and wrote remaining five volumes of the work, the Sirat-un-Nabi after the death of his mentor.


He was born to Shaikh Habibullah and Moqeema Khatoon. Although his younger brothers went to London for education and later returned as barristers,employed at Allahabad High Court, Shibli received a traditional Islamic education. His teacher was Maulana Muhammad Farooq Chirayakoti, a rationalist scholar. He went to Mecca for the Hajj and there he devoted his time to furthering his studies in Islamic theology, history, philosophy and Sufism from different scholars in Arabia

How come he wasnt labelled Islamist by someone who labels anyone breathing Islam an Islamist? Hell I have never heard of him never in history lessons nor anyone refers to him during religious study lessons so I dont think he is as reputed as you believe him to be! Sorry everyone can write a book and become famous, we have Clinton writing about his affair and others writing about Diana (When she is dead...only god knows how much is truth!)

Most of the Islamic history books are adulterated from the period between 16-18th century and continued.
As i said we have different Quran...... and you talk about conflicting history books!
Therefore, the best way to avoid conflict is religious branding in public should be banned.
Exactly, like OP was intended for ideas but, intolerant bunch hijacked it and took it to the direction, where they think is there preferred battle field.

We have different Quran?

Pretty much my point. To us it is as much a fact as it is a theory. I TRULY believe my ancestors were apes. I can say the same for most Indians.

sorry but as a Biologist that really was funny!!

I think Pakistan requires a radical left leaning movement as an antithesis of Radical theocratic right movements. The resultant "Systesis" will be a moderate path.
It is almost imposssible to deal with the current strength of theocratic right force by the weak moderates of Pak society alone

Not true...

1st question is has anyone even tried dealing with it?

The simple answer is no! Why suggest it cant be dealt with when no one has tried?

 

[Sliver]

1)we can start by teaching tolerance in this forum. Have a "every religion, caste, creed, color, race is equal and no one is considered superior or inferior" clause in your terms and conditions
2) Instead of a "thanks" and a "rank up", put a "racist, relgious fundamentalist" tag that keeps increasing everytime a moderator sees a "intolerant" rant
3) Have a permanent link to all rants that the above users were "awarded" the "racist" tag for all members to see and decide for what exactly this guy was awarded such a rating.

have a discourse among members on what is good conduct - make everyone involved in this - from People like @Zarvan to people like @FaujiHistorian because true tolerance isbeing flexible for others views - only not "belittling" each others views.

 

[Dubious]

Shut down all Madarsa's
Include Islamic education as part to curriculum in School as a compulsory subject for Muslims and recruit teachers in the same way as for other subjects based on interview for the same.
This will bar crazy mullahs to influence masses, moreover increase your school enrollment ratio in Pakistan.

Already suggested....
We actually dont have that many madrassahs in the cities except a few but in the villages its like 2-3 in every other street.....Then again we have enormous cities where it suddenly has the same patterns as in the villages (esp the outskirts of the city)

1)we can start by teaching tolerance in this forum. Have a "every religion, caste, creed, color, race is equal and no one is considered superior or inferior" clause in your terms and conditions
2) Instead of a "thanks" and a "rank up", put a "racist, relgious fundamentalist" tag that keeps increasing everytime a moderator sees a "intolerant" rant
3) Have a permanent link to all rants that the above users were "awarded" the "racist" tag for all members to see and decide for what exactly this guy was awarded such a rating.

have a discourse among members on what is good conduct - make everyone involved in this - from People like @Zarvan to people like @FaujiHistorian because true tolerance isbeing flexible for others views - only not "belittling" each others views.

Not a good idea...it is a public forum everyone is allowed to their thinking...Sorry but this is not America where under the freedom flag you are spied on and categorized!

By labeling people it is decreasing tolerance mind you

And then we have some with different POV and I doubt they should be punished or defamed just because you want to categorize something....Its a public forum open to public debates....

Very bad and sickening control freak idea!

Okay , lets show some good morals here . If I fail to prove what I posted , or you or any one else proves that I am giving false references , I will delete my post . And change my views . but if that does not happen , then you will delete your post and re consider your views !! fair enough ??

Its not about you but the author you are advertising...He is not even known how can we use that as reference when we are not sure what references the author used and how reliable those are?

dont agree that they all are pathetic goons and liars thats too much negativity to paint everyone with same brush

been telling him that but..

First of all your analogy of phone is not relevant to discussion. If honesty was good trait 100 years ago then it will still be good thing after 100 years. If killing was wrong thousand years ago then it will still be wrong after thousand years ago. Morals don't change with time like technology so these analogy don't make any sense and islam dont even oppose change otherwise why Muslim would be using things which did not existed in past

Said that too...I even told him he isnt even holding a phone but a brick painted as Nokia 1100...

There is freedom of religion in Islam as there is no compulsion in religion as per Islamic teaching but you may be talking about certain Muslim countries or individuals who are not following the teaching of Islam..Its not about zakat only. Islam does not tax income but taxes wealth. I think you better search about taxation in islam

I know what is mal e ganeemut but what is your point? I am sure you also know about bait ul maal. Better you read concept of welfare state in Islam here

Bayt al-mal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I even gave him examples of Islamic banking being thought in Western countries if all that is fake then even Western countries cant tell his level of truth!

 

[Dubious]

I am spreading ignorance lol. how? You have already made up your mind and know everything so i am sure you will refuse everything which i will bring so better i leave you with your made up opinions

And that is a conclusion even I am drawing now

 

[BATMAN]

We have different Quran?

Yes, once i came across, research of a scholar... where he even mentioned the verses being different.
He was no villager but a medical doctor, i'll make sure if i found it, will let you know.
However, i can give you the name of book instantly, if you like.

 

[Dubious]

It is obvious. Religious tolerance must be inculcated as a civil right. That is, all citizens must have the freedom to practice whatever religion they wish without Government interference. If Islam cannot abide this, then Islam is wrong for human development and success, and, Islam is, therefore, a wrong turn of human history

Already present in the law if it is not being practiced it is not the falt of the law...it is already in the law just problems with reinforcing it...Prob are arising from people not the govt directly...I already quoted how Islam insists this @BATMAN already stated how during the Islamic rules, everyone was protected...Sorry people fail to quote proper history or you dont read that in literature...

Yes, once i came across, research of a scholar... where he even mentioned the verses being different.
He was no villager but a medical doctor, i'll make sure if i found it, will let you know.
However, i can give you the name of book instantly, if you like.

I have read the Quran in 3 languages so far they have been same....yes please give me this "scholar's " name

Quran and sun nah are both part off Islam mr and Quran even doesn't how to offer Salah and pay zakat it's sunnat and we need to educate about non Muslim rights in Islamic state

It does...zara ghour say paryeh ga....maybe with some classes in Quranic Arabic to help decipher the words

I rather invest 5 mins in this

 

[INDIC]

And that is a conclusion even I am drawing now

The things Pakistanis learn in school are very biased against minorities. I have read about it, they sounds extremely offensive.

 

[Dubious]

I think you need to read Ibn Kathir's book which was written about 100 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and with all due respect to Shibli would be more accurate in its account.

God Forbid he even reads an Arabic book...He didnt even know what Oukhti meant

The things Pakistanis learn in school are very biased against minorities. I have read about it, they sounds extremely offensive.

When did you go schooling in Pakistan? @Secur this topic came up again and on a totally unrelated thread...

Same picture to express what I wrote @Raja.Pakistani for post 291

 

[INDIC]

When did you go schooling in Pakistan? @Secur this topic came up again and on a totally unrelated thread...

I can show you some of the samples.

 

[Dubious]

I can show you some of the samples.

Not on this thread...I do not want to go through all that...I recall some other Indian did something similar...

I am going to wait for @Secur to make a thread on that then you can post your related questions on that...

Actually they do salah three times a day and give verses that mention 3 salah like shias do.

@KingMamba @Zarvan
There are some who do 5 times a day as these have looked through the Whole Quran you can ask @LoveIcon he posted the references some threads ago...

 

[INDIC]

Not on this thread...I do not want to go through all that...I recall some other Indian did something similar...

I am going to wait for @Secur to make a thread on that then you can post your related questions on that...

As you wish. So, what is your view that there is no such intolerance against Hindus, Sikhs and Christians being fed to kids in school.

 

[Dubious]

quoted for truth because it struck a chord with me . I have quite a few of practicing muslim friends but i try to avoid the "SUPERIORITY" kind of muslims .

We are better because we are muslims .

Everything apart from Quran is false . When stated the same about quran they go in some mad religious rage bombing the whole discussions on quotes and verses gibberish .

Like the poster said

"You cannot develop tolerance by having in mind that "Your religion" is the greatest and everything else is blasphemy/wrong/stupid. " .

Please do read the Quran before writing this stuff! I am tired of spoon feeding each Indian on this forum who never has opened the Quran let alone read it! You people judge Islam based on what Indian Muslims or South Asian Muslims are doing that too the extremist ones not the quiet practicing ones!

As you wish. So, what is your view that there is no such intolerance against Hindus, Sikhs and Christians being fed to kids in school.

As far as I have read my cousin's books since I never went to school in Pakistan...no such thing exists and this is why I quote others who have gone to school in Pakistan and can give you a better insight to your questions!

However there is some Nationalism included but none that degrades another's "religion" let alone nationality

 

[Sugarcane]

There are some who do 5 times a day as these have looked through the Whole Quran you can ask @LoveIcon he posted the references some threads ago...

There are 5 prayers mentioned in Quran and Sunnah of 5 prayers is undisputed till today. It's foolish to think otherwise.