What should be done to Increase Religious tolerance in Pakistan/ serious Discussion

[Dubious]

Answer is simple:Be good Muslims. Teach the kid from childhood/school The Holy Quora'n and Sunnah.

Thank you...Unfortunately this is probably truth...Many parents prefer sending their kids to Qari then teaching them at home....Qari hits them with danda and they end up hating Islam than loving it....

As for teaching in school...Most schools do rattafication where you just swallow the whole book and vomit it out in the exam...Those with best memory top even if they cant analyze while those who cant memorize but may be the best in analyzing are left behind and penalized! something like the 3 Idiots

 

[INDIC]

As far as I have read my cousin's books since I never went to school in Pakistan...no such thing exists and this is why I quote others who have gone to school in Pakistan and can give you a better insight to your questions!

However there is some Nationalism included but none that degrades another's "religion" let alone nationality

You don't want me to tell you the sample and at the same time denying such thing when there is a huge debate inside Pakistan about it.

 

[Dubious]

There are 5 prayers mentioned in Quran and Sunnah of 5 prayers is undisputed till today. It's foolish to think otherwise.

Can you please put the link to the Quranic references so that everyone can see...I saw you did that for another thread this time I will bookmark it so I dont have to search and ask you everytime!

You don't want me to tell you the sample and at the same time denying such thing when there is a huge debate inside Pakistan about it.

I already advised you to discuss this in another thread...thank you!

And as for debate in Pakistan there is also debates to side the Taliban so please keep your info for another thread @WebMaster @Aeronaut @Jungibaaz I am tired of advising them to stop derailing for their amusement!

Religion should be separate from state affairs and banned in Public..

It already is ..the state cant even tell you a simple thing such as how many mosques are there in Pakistan nor can it tell whats their timings for solah nor can it even answer what was said in Friday's qutbah!

The hunt is on for Iranian trained target killers.

So far off topic

I would like to focus to a different thing-

You will find hysteria in Muslims is Pakistan and some other places that people are not valuing their lives for a predetermined "Islamic Cause". We saw this hysteria in various communist movements. We saw this hysteria in various freedom movements like in India. What are these inherent reasons for this hysteria?

- For communists many believed that they are sacrificing their lives people who survived may leave their life without oppression. How much truth is there behind their belief that is a different issue.

- For freedom fighters, they believed that they are giving their lives for the country and betterment of fellow countrymen

What is the reason for Muslims to give their precious life in mass so easily? What is the driving force. It may not be the Hatred only. -ve emotions are not strong enough to sacrifice life in mass although it is enough to take others life.

I think they are thinking their short earthy life as an investment of eternal happiness of afterlife. Is the concept of heaven is so strong in Islam? Concept of heaven is there in every religion but not as strong as to sacrifice present life as nothing. Is it an important part of Islamic religion or they are just brainwashed?

Thank you for your thinking...
The problem is desensitizing ....When you start saying everything falls in 1 group like Kafir, non-islamic and whatever and that it should not exist...Blowing themselves will be rewarded (not true) ..In Islam killing even 1 life is equated to killing whole of humanity so not sure how they justify this...

It is either of the 2:

1) revenge for dead relative blinds the recruit to reason with what he/she is being asked to do

2) brainwashing those who have no excess to knowledge and rectify what they were thought is truth....

 

[EXPERIMENT]

....................................................................................

 

[Dubious]

He got it as Umer r.a asked him to accept the job as he was the one closest to Muhammad pbuh of the 3 quraishis(Abu Bakr , Umer and Abu Ubaidah [r.a]) and all other Ansaris present at Saqifa . He was not elected , but selected . Ansar wanted Caliphate for themselves but they were disqualified by saying that Muhammad said that Amir will be from Quraish . Banu Hashim and family of prophet were not consulted . So they did not accept Khilafah of Abu Bakr in the beginning

Abu Bakr then asked people to choose between 'Umar ibn al-Khattab and Abu 'Ubaydah ibn al-Jarrah. Hearing this, both men jumped to their feet and exclaimed "O Siddiq, how can that be? How can anyone else fill this position as long as you are among us? You are the top man amongst heMuhajirun. You were the Companion of the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam in the Thawr cave. You led prayers in his place, during his last illness. Prayer is the foremost thing in Islam. With all these qualifications you are the fittest person to be the successor of the Holy Prophet. Hold out your hand that we may pledge loyalty to you."

But Abu Bakr did not stretch out his hand. 'Umar saw that the delay might lead to the reopening of the disagreements so he himself took Abu Bakr's hand out and pledged loyalty to him. Others followed by example, and Abu Bakr became the first Caliph by general consent of the Muslims.

 

[BATMAN]

I have read the Quran in 3 languages so far they have been same....yes please give me this "scholar's " name

Ok, it took me 30 minutes to do search. I found it, and the writer is mentioning one sect. have surrah 'al-willayat' added to their version of Quran.
I have the verse in front of me and its translation in Urdu as well.

Rest only words are altered.... and i'm impressed you have read Quran in 3 languages.

 

[Dubious]

prayer was the finalized by 4 imams in Sunnis and Shias have their own method

4 Sunni Imams all have different method.

So what you say is not correct

Dear God talk about jokes!
http://quransmessage.com/pdfs/The Five Prayers.pdf

The differences are soo minor you wont even notice unless you are a Mullah who gets irked by details So you are a hidden mullah!!

 

[Sugarcane]

Can you please put the link to the Quranic references so that everyone can see...I saw you did that for another thread this time I will bookmark it so I dont have to search and ask you everytime!

Ablution
[5:6] O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles. If you were unclean due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or had any digestive excretion (urinary, fecal, or gas), or had (sexual) contact with the women, and you cannot find water, you shall observe the dry ablution (Tayammum) by touching clean dry soil, then rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make the religion difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you and to perfect His blessing upon you, that you may be appreciative.

What Nullifies Ablution & Tayammum
[4:43] O you who believe, do not observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) while intoxicated, so that you know what you are saying. Nor after sexual orgasm without bathing, unless you are on the road, traveling; if you are ill or traveling, or you had urinary or fecal-related excretion (such as gas), or contacted the women (sexually), and you cannot find water, you shall observe Tayammum (dry ablution) by touching clean dry soil, then wiping your faces and hands therewith. GOD is Pardoner, Forgiver.

Relaxation of Prayer
[2:239] Under unusual circumstances, you may pray while walking or riding. Once you are safe, you shall commemorate GOD as He taught you what you never knew.

Direction for Prayer
[2:125] We have rendered the shrine (the Ka'aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."

[2:144] We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.

[2:145] Even if you show the followers of the scripture every kind of miracle, they will not follow your Qiblah. Nor shall you follow their Qiblah. They do not even follow each others' Qiblah. If you acquiesce to their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you, you will belong with the transgressors.

[22:26] We appointed Abraham to establish the Shrine: "You shall not idolize any other god beside Me, and purify My shrine for those who visit it, those who live near it, and those who bow and prostrate.

Guidance for Praying
[2:43] You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and bow down with those who bow down.

[4:102] When you are with them, and lead the Contact Prayer (Salat) for them, let some of you stand guard; let them hold their weapons, and let them stand behind you as you prostrate. Then, let the other group that has not prayed take their turn praying with you, while the others stand guard and hold their weapons. Those who disbelieved wish to see you neglect your weapons and your equipment, in order to attack you once and for all. You commit no error, if you are hampered by rain or injury, by putting down your weapons, so long as you remain alert. GOD has prepared for the disbelievers a shameful retribution.

[7:204] When the Quran is recited, you shall listen to it and take heed, that you may attain mercy.

[48:29] Muhammad—the messenger of GOD—and those with him are harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, as they seek GOD's blessings and approval. Their marks are on their faces, because of prostrating. This is the same example as in the Torah. Their example in the Gospel is like plants that grow taller and stronger, and please the farmers. He thus enrages the disbelievers. GOD promises those among them who believe and lead a righteous life forgiveness and a great recompense.

[6:161] Say, "My Lord has guided me in a straight path—the perfect religion of Abraham, monotheism. He never was an idol worshiper."

[17:110] Say, “Call Him GOD, or call Him Most Gracious; whichever name you use, to Him belongs the best names.

[17:111] And proclaim: "Praise be to GOD, who has never begotten a son, nor does He have a partner in His kingship, nor does He need any ally out of weakness," and magnify Him constantly.

[20:14] "I am GOD; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) to remember Me

[23:1-2] Successful indeed are the believers; who are reverent during their Contact Prayers (Salat).

[72:18] The places of worship belong to GOD; do not call on anyone else beside GOD.

Number of Prayers

a) Dawn, sunset & night Prayer

[11:114] You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.

[24:58] O you who believe, permission must be requested by your servants and the children who have not attained puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in three instances—before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer. These are three private times for you. At other times, it is not wrong for you or them to mingle with one another. GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

b) Noon Prayer

[17:78] You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.

c) Afternoon Prayer

[2:238] You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer, and devote yourselves totally to GOD

d) Obligatory Friday congregational prayer.

[62:9] O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu'ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.

 

[Dubious]

Ok, it took me 30 minutes to do search. I found it, and the writer is mentioning one sect. have surrah 'al-willayat' added to their version of Quran.
I have the verse in front of me and its translation in Urdu as well.

Rest only words are altered.... and i'm impressed you have read Quran in 3 languages.

Read not memorized but yes....I was very curious of Islam not too long back.....And I do speak 3 languages fluently

Ablution
[5:6] O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles. If you were unclean due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or had any digestive excretion (urinary, fecal, or gas), or had (sexual) contact with the women, and you cannot find water, you shall observe the dry ablution (Tayammum) by touching clean dry soil, then rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make the religion difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you and to perfect His blessing upon you, that you may be appreciative.

What Nullifies Ablution & Tayammum
[4:43] O you who believe, do not observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) while intoxicated, so that you know what you are saying. Nor after sexual orgasm without bathing, unless you are on the road, traveling; if you are ill or traveling, or you had urinary or fecal-related excretion (such as gas), or contacted the women (sexually), and you cannot find water, you shall observe Tayammum (dry ablution) by touching clean dry soil, then wiping your faces and hands therewith. GOD is Pardoner, Forgiver.

Relaxation of Prayer
[2:239] Under unusual circumstances, you may pray while walking or riding. Once you are safe, you shall commemorate GOD as He taught you what you never knew.

Direction for Prayer
[2:125] We have rendered the shrine (the Ka'aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."

[2:144] We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.

[2:145] Even if you show the followers of the scripture every kind of miracle, they will not follow your Qiblah. Nor shall you follow their Qiblah. They do not even follow each others' Qiblah. If you acquiesce to their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you, you will belong with the transgressors.

[22:26] We appointed Abraham to establish the Shrine: "You shall not idolize any other god beside Me, and purify My shrine for those who visit it, those who live near it, and those who bow and prostrate.

Guidance for Praying
[2:43] You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and bow down with those who bow down.

[4:102] When you are with them, and lead the Contact Prayer (Salat) for them, let some of you stand guard; let them hold their weapons, and let them stand behind you as you prostrate. Then, let the other group that has not prayed take their turn praying with you, while the others stand guard and hold their weapons. Those who disbelieved wish to see you neglect your weapons and your equipment, in order to attack you once and for all. You commit no error, if you are hampered by rain or injury, by putting down your weapons, so long as you remain alert. GOD has prepared for the disbelievers a shameful retribution.

[7:204] When the Quran is recited, you shall listen to it and take heed, that you may attain mercy.

[48:29] Muhammad—the messenger of GOD—and those with him are harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, as they seek GOD's blessings and approval. Their marks are on their faces, because of prostrating. This is the same example as in the Torah. Their example in the Gospel is like plants that grow taller and stronger, and please the farmers. He thus enrages the disbelievers. GOD promises those among them who believe and lead a righteous life forgiveness and a great recompense.

[6:161] Say, "My Lord has guided me in a straight path—the perfect religion of Abraham, monotheism. He never was an idol worshiper."

[17:110] Say, “Call Him GOD, or call Him Most Gracious; whichever name you use, to Him belongs the best names.

[17:111] And proclaim: "Praise be to GOD, who has never begotten a son, nor does He have a partner in His kingship, nor does He need any ally out of weakness," and magnify Him constantly.

[20:14] "I am GOD; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) to remember Me

[23:1-2] Successful indeed are the believers; who are reverent during their Contact Prayers (Salat).

[72:18] The places of worship belong to GOD; do not call on anyone else beside GOD.

Number of Prayers

a) Dawn, sunset & night Prayer

[11:114] You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.

[24:58] O you who believe, permission must be requested by your servants and the children who have not attained puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in three instances—before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer. These are three private times for you. At other times, it is not wrong for you or them to mingle with one another. GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

b) Noon Prayer

[17:78] You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.
c) Afternoon Prayer

[2:238] You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer, and devote yourselves totally to GOD

d) Obligatory Friday congregational prayer.

[62:9] O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu'ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.

I found this : http://quransmessage.com/pdfs/The Five Prayers.pdf

 

[BATMAN]

@Talon
Surat Al-Wilayat

 

[jaibi]

Guys what do you think, What should be done to increase religious tolerance in pakistan?
Do we need changes in constituition or we need to deal with these unwanted elements with Iron Hand?

Education and diversity.

 

[Dubious]

1st the site is Answering Islam
It is the same website many quote against Islam so I wont be too worried about whatever the author has to say...

2nd the translation:

You who are believers,
believe in the prophet and the saint (patron, God-man)
"which is Ali Bin Abi Taleb, Mohammed cousin"
which we sent, they will guide you to the strait path.

All over the Quran when we are asked to listen to ALLAH and prophet then why suddenly do we have a saint which was rejected for Christians in the same Quran?

3rd Quran always said Muhammad is a blessing on mankind....he is the last msgr (khattam-ul-nabi) he is also the 1 with the last scripture....

4th the source of the Surah:

Source: "ALThWRh AL'YARANYh FY MYzAN AL'sLAM" (The Iranian revolution in the balance of Islam), published in Egypt.

5th the author of the website thinks God's challenge has been met using this surah which is a joke because he himself prob didnt read it...that I will leave for a different thread....

Lets get back to Pakistan shall we?

@Talon
Surat Al-Wilayat

I found another 1 though same website: The Challenge - Surat al-Nurain

Surah al-Nurayn & Surah al-Wilayah: Their Authenticity & Literary Style

Between 1055 / 1645 and 1068 /1658, there appeared in India, during the time of Mughal rule, an anonymous book written in Persian called Dabistan-i Madhahib or "Schools of Religious Doctrines". In this book, two additional surahs and verses are mentioned that are not to be found in the official text of the Qur'an. The two surahs bearing the names "Surah al-Walayah" and "Surah al-Nurayn". The Dabistan attracted considerable attention in the West. Dabistan-i Madhahib had been published for the first time in 1809 in Calcutta, India.

The book describes life under Mughal rule in India in existing religious communities. It consists of twelve chapters, each of them dedicated to a different group. Surprisingly, the author starts with the Parsis and continues with the accounts of Hindus, Tibetans, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Philosophers and Sufis. The account of the Parsis seems to be the most comphrehensive of the whole book.

 

[Cherokee]

Please do read the Quran before writing this stuff! I am tired of spoon feeding each Indian on this forum who never has opened the Quran let alone read it! You people judge Islam based on what Indian Muslims or South Asian Muslims are doing that too the extremist ones not the quiet practicing ones!


As far as I have read my cousin's books since I never went to school in Pakistan...no such thing exists and this is why I quote others who have gone to school in Pakistan and can give you a better insight to your questions!

However there is some Nationalism included but none that degrades another's "religion" let alone nationality

Pray tell me why should i read quran ? It does not matters to me zilch . And my reply has nothing to do with reading quran . You have got some severe comprehension problem . You are completely doing tangential with my comment . And also stop preaching to the convert .

 

[Dubious]

Pray tell me why should i read quran ? It does not matters to me zilch . And my reply has nothing to do with reading quran . You have got some severe comprehension problem .

Then dont reply according to Islam or Muslims this and that...Simple...If you have not read about surgery you wont jump in to cut open your relative if they complain of a stomachache now will you? ...The problem with you people is that you see an Indian Muslim doing something and quickly equate it to Islam....

Its easier to talk about comprehension problems when you just accused me of preaching to convert!

You are completely doing tangential with my comment . And also stop preaching to the convert .

When did I ask you to convert to anything? Pry do tell me!

 

[M. Sarmad]

Shibli Nomani wasnt even a Historian to begin with...

Sorry I just googled it and found the author of such a story "Montgomery Watt"


.......
I am sorry I have to disagree because so far the religion is separated from the state...

Shibli was much more than that , but here I was not quoting Shibli Naumani , I was referring to

1.Sahih Al Bukhari , (unquestionably The most authentic source)
2.Sirah Ibn e Hisham (the first history book written on Islam)


Bukhari has quoted the second caliph Umar Ibn Khattab extensively on what transpired at the Saqifah of Bani Saa’edah:
Says Umar: Following the demise of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.), news reached us that the Ansaar (Immigrants) had assembled at the Saqifah-i-Bani Saa’edah. I told Abu Bakr, ‘Let us go there so that we join our Ansaar brethren.’
Abu Bakr obliged and we reached Saqifah together. Ali, Zubair and their companions were not with us. At Saqifah, we observed that a group of Ansaar had brought someone with them who was completely covered. It was Sa’d ibn Ubaadah running a very high temperature. We sat besides them. A man from the Ansaar stood up and as had been decided, after praising Allah began to speak, ‘We are the friends and lovers of Allah. We are the soldiers and the strength of Islam. But you, O Muhaajireen, are few in number and …’
I (Umar) thought of replying but Abu Bakr pulled my sleeves and quietened me. He then himself stood up, and God is witness, said what I wanted to and he said it better than me.
Abu Bakr said, ‘O company of Ansaar! You are surely the recipient of the attributes which you have described and you have achieved them. But, Caliphate and government is only the right of the Quraish because they are renowned for their nobility and lineage, manners and conduct throughout the Arabian Peninsula and enjoy an undisputed position. It is only for your betterment that I do this, I present before you two people so that you may choose whomsoever you wish for the Caliphate. Saying this, Abu Bakr caught hold of my(Umer`s) hand and that of Abu Ubaidah and presented us before the crowd. I disliked the last suggestion. While another Ansaar stood up and commented:
اَنَا جَذِيْلُهَا الْمَحْكُ وَ عَذِيْقُهَا الْمُوْجَبُ-
I am among you (O Ansaar) like a stick with which camels are driven or that tree which provides shade. If it is so, O Muhajireen! Then appoint a ruler amongst you and we will appoint one from amongst us. A great commotion erupted at this statement. We witnessed great opposition and rivalry. I took advantage of this commotion and said to Abu Bakr, ‘Extend your hand so that I may pay allegiance to you.’ Abu Bakr complied and I paid allegiance to him. Having done this, we gathered near Sa’d Bin Ubadah…. After this entire episode, if somebody pays allegiance to the Caliphate of any other caliph without the consultation of the Muslims, adhere neither to the follower nor the allegiance taker, for both are liable for capital punishment.
Saheeh Bukhari, Kitabul Hudud, Baabul Rajmul Hablaa, 4/ 119-120
Seerae Ibne Hisham, 4/ 336-338 Kanz al-Ummaal, 3/ 139- Hadith 2326

Prophet (pbuh) did not appoint Abu Bakr as his successor:

" One should not deceive oneself by saying that the pledge of allegiance given to Abu Bakr was given suddenly and it was successful. No doubt, it was like that, but God saved (the people) from its evil
Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:82:817

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
It was said to 'Umar, "Will you appoint your successor?" Umar said, "If I appoint a Caliph (as my successor) it is true that somebody who was better than I (i.e., Abu Bakr) did so, and if I leave the matter undecided, it is true that somebody who was better than I (i.e., Allah's Apostle) did so."
Sahih al-Bukhari , Volume 9, Book 89, Number 325

And a lot of authentic references can be given that Prophet (pbuh) did not appoint any successor . selection Of Abu Bakr was sudden and not pre planned or by the will of prophet (pbuh)

All other claims were added centuries later to further justify the caliphate of Abu Bakr . None of the primary source says that Abu Bakr was elected caliph because he led the prayers in the lifetime of Muhammad . Also he was not the only one to do so , so this claim cant be accepted academically . hope you understand !!

I am sorry I have to disagree because so far the religion is separated from the state...

Really ??

@Azlan Haider Hazrat Abu Bakar RA was selected by Sahabas and than all Sahabs took his bait including Hazrat ALI RA so stop spreading lies

either You are brainwashed , or you are a pathological liar

To me it seems a bit stupid to put up fights about who should have followed our prophet(PBUH). That time has passed more than a millennium ago. Won't it be better to not fight about those differences now, as we cannot reverse time so many centuries back, but follow the good things of the religion, we all believe in. Many of the sectarian differences/fights would simply end after that.

We should stop denying historical facts and sectarianism would be reduced . This is a better and more practical approach