What should be done to Increase Religious tolerance in Pakistan/ serious Discussion

[Cherokee]

Then dont reply according to Islam or Muslims this and that...Simple...If you have not read about surgery you wont jump in to cut open your relative if they complain of a stomachache now will you? ...The problem with you people is that you see an Indian Muslim doing something and quickly equate it to Islam....

Its easier to talk about comprehension problems when you just accused me of preaching to convert!

When did I ask you to convert to anything? Pry do tell me!

You are one of the biggest word mincer on PDF . I related with the comment of one of the posters and shared my exp with him . Where did i say anything about Quran or Islam ?? You yourself are doing it . Do you understand how contradicting you are are ??
Dont equate Muslims with Islam . Cool i did not i commented on my exp with some Muslims . Then you come here whining about Read Quran understand Islam when i have not even commented on these two things . You yourself have equated that ( hence my comment about comprehension problem ) .

Also read this it might help you preach to the converted - Idioms - by the Free Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Idioms are not your forte .

 

[BATMAN]

Education and diversity.

Islam supports education. What do you mean by diversity?
I guess, we need to teach the kids to love each other, instead of teaching them conflicting history once they get back from school.
While state should ban kids being taught conflicting Islamic history as chanted by atheists aka secular.

 

[SpArK]

Education it is. And the right form too.

Thousands of religious schools with extreme rules adhering to a certain sect of the religion,which is the harshest and the most intolerant of all.

The by-products have no knowledge of ,or skill in, anything other than reciting the holy book and were thus ,like teeming of thousands and thousands of them, making them virtually unemployable else where.

But given the task to do by their chief mentor they would die for it, which is alarming and is a threat of the past, and of the present and for the future of the nation.

 

[Black Mamba1]

Not true...

1st question is has anyone even tried dealing with it?

The simple answer is no! Why suggest it cant be dealt with when no one has tried?

If it is seriously not tried then it is big issue. Because as true religion is absent in front of them people may assume religion as highlighted by the fundamentalists and soon they will blame religion for their sufferings which is not true. This situation may lead to either extreme fundamentalism or extreme atheism as an antithesis of "so-called religion". Both may destroy the fabric of your society.
Please do not forget Carvakism( extreme atheist philosophy in Hinduism also called Nastik ) in India emerged as an antithesis of then existing religion rituals which was affecting people.

 

[KingMamba]

No brother , Ibn e Kathir wrote his book 700 years after the death of prophet pbuh and its a biased history . Shibli`s book is much more researched . And I quoted Bukhari , which is believed to be much more authentic than the others



He got it as Umer r.a asked him to accept the job as he was the one closest to Muhammad pbuh of the 3 quraishis(Abu Bakr , Umer and Abu Ubaidah [r.a]) and all other Ansaris present at Saqifa . He was not elected , but selected . Ansar wanted Caliphate for themselves but they were disqualified by saying that Muhammad said that Amir will be from Quraish . Banu Hashim and family of prophet were not consulted . So they did not accept Khilafah of Abu Bakr in the beginning

My mistake I fixed my error but my point remains his book war years in advance of Shiblis. No scholar has called his book biased what are you basing this on? That is your opinion that Shiblis has better research I doubt it considering he only wrote the first two volumes himself and the rest were written by his student. Ibn Kathir quotes Bukhari and Muslim in his book many times. I will read his book though anyway.

True Abu Bakr RA said to the Ansar choose between Umar or Ubaidah RA but the Ansar didn't want to pick them and wanted to pick their own leader to which Abu Bakr RA said the other tribes would not accept a non Quraishi as the Quraish were the most emminent tribe of Arabia. Then Umar RA grabbed Abu Bakr RAs hand and made Bayah after which all the Quraish did and then the Ansar agreed when Umar RA said who amongst you is better to lead then Abu Bakr RA and that there can only be one leader of the Muslims. The world Caliph was the title proscribed to Abu Bakr RA which means successor. Banu Hashim were not consulted but after Ali RA made bayah so did the rest of them which is why even today most Banu Hashim descendents are Sunnis. You are nitpicking between elect and select which is basically the same thing.

Elect vs. Select?

 

[jaunty]

Islam doesnt promote someone being below another

Then teach them Islam if that helps. BTW doesn't Islam says that it's only the true path and everything else is false and misguided?

 

[Commander T]

Then teach them Islam if that helps. BTW doesn't Islam says that it's only the true path and everything else is false and misguided?

no, Islam says that most of the religions were true and Guided by Allah SWT in their times but with the passage of time they were corrupted by Scholars of that religion and hence lost their effeciveness on mankind.... but the 2 that have been menioned in Quran to be true are IBRAHMIC religions, christianity and Judism (jews) ,,,, Its has been mentioned in Quran that Allah has sent prophets towards every nation on earth in each era.... but every Prophet got resistance from his nation......

 

[Dubious]

explained above ^^

 

[M. Sarmad]

My mistake I fixed my error but my point remains his book war years in advance of Shiblis. No scholar has called his book biased what are you basing this on? That is your opinion that Shiblis has better research I doubt it considering he only wrote the first two volumes himself and the rest were written by his student. Ibn Kathir quotes Bukhari and Muslim in his book many times. I will read his book though anyway.

True Abu Bakr RA said to the Ansar choose between Umar or Ubaidah RA but the Ansar didn't want to pick them and wanted to pick their own leader to which Abu Bakr RA said the other tribes would not accept a non Quraishi as the Quraish were the most emminent tribe of Arabia. Then Umar RA grabbed Abu Bakr RAs hand and made Bayah after which all the Quraish did and then the Ansar agreed when Umar RA said who amongst you is better to lead then Abu Bakr RA and that there can only be one leader of the Muslims. The world Caliph was the title proscribed to Abu Bakr RA which means successor. Banu Hashim were not consulted but after Ali RA made bayah so did the rest of them which is why even today most Banu Hashim descendents are Sunnis. You are nitpicking between elect and select which is basically the same thing.

Elect vs. Select?

Ibn e Kathir was a Muhaddith basically and History written by Muhadditheen is always biased , be it Imam Dhahbi , or Ibn e Hajar or Shah Abdul Aziz Muhaddaith Dehlavi . Muhaddiseen base their version of history on basis of hadith and do not consider historians to be authentic (either Muslim or orientalist) . They reject any account narrated by some one with shiite influence . Ironically "khawarij"(who killed Ali r.a) on the other hand , are considered to be one of the most authentic narrators . Hope you can see the "bias" !!! Shibli followed established methods and techniques for evaluation of different historical accounts . This rift between Muhaddiseen and Islamic historians is as old as the subject itself is . e.g , The greatest medieval Muhaddis , Ibn e Hajar Asqalani declared that the greatest Muslim historian , Al Masudi , had shiite influence , so his history should be rejected . A very unfair , unacademic and prejudiced approach .

Regarding election of Abu Bakr r.a , he was not elected , but selected by Umar r.a . And Ali r.a gave Bayyah to Abu Bakr r.a only after the death of Fatima . (six months after selection of Abu Bakr) , and we read in Bukhari that Ayesha r.a said that it was due to the fact that Ali started to lose his popularity after the death of daughter of prophet (pbuh) and therefore decided to make a compromise . Banu Hashim only followed .

Banu Hashim includes Abbasis too , who were responsible for killing of descendants of Muhammad (The Shia Imams). Banu Abbas had gained the support of masses against Ummayads on basis of kinship to Muhammad (pbuh) . In the beginning they were considered a sect of Rafidhis (Kesanya) . When they were successful in establishing Khilafah , they started to look at the descendants of Ali r.a , and their religion as the greatest threat to the crown of Abassids . The sunni schools of fiqh and Sihah sittah originated (and were regulated later)during Abbasid rule under full state protection !!.

 

[Dubious]

You are one of the biggest word mincer on PDF . I related with the comment of one of the posters and shared my exp with him . Where did i say anything about Quran or Islam ?? You yourself are doing it . Do you understand how contradicting you are are ??
Dont equate Muslims with Islam . Cool i did not i commented on my exp with some Muslims . Then you come here whining about Read Quran understand Islam when i have not even commented on these two things . You yourself have equated that ( hence my comment about comprehension problem ) .

You related the experience because you thought it was the case for all Muslims....So I said read the Quran to see if that exists in Islam or is just individual problems!

Also read this it might help you preach to the converted - Idioms - by the Free Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Idioms are not your forte .

Well not many people use idioms and actually literally mean when they something !!

And I am not forcing anything on you....

 

[livingdead]

bloody hell, this thread is getting too technical ...

 

[Cherokee]

You related the experience because you thought it was the case for all Muslims....So I said read the Quran to see if that exists in Islam or is just individual problems!
Well not many people use idioms and actually literally mean when they something !!

And I am not forcing anything on you....

How do you know what i thought ? And show me where i said its case with all muslims . I clearly differentiated between my muslim friends and such kind of people . You are thinking what you want to think not whats written . Idiom usage is fine and i said nowhere you are forcing something on me . Its your perception about yourself .

 

[Dubious]

quoted for truth because it struck a chord with me . I have quite a few of practicing muslim friends but i try to avoid the "SUPERIORITY" kind of muslims .

You equated it to truth....to something you believe all Muslims door as a fact! Hence I said read the Quran if it is there!

We are better because we are muslims .

Have you seen how many Indians go around comparing Pakistan and India and ending the post with something like Muslims in India are happier and blaa blaa....that is more like Indians are better than Pakistan....So I dont think its Muslims problems but Indians

Everything apart from Quran is false . When stated the same about quran they go in some mad religious rage bombing the whole discussions on quotes and verses gibberish .

Well not everyone goes like that....Some rationalize and it is again an individual problem! hence I said go read the Quran to see if it thought that...

Like the poster said

"You cannot develop tolerance by having in mind that "Your religion" is the greatest and everything else is blasphemy/wrong/stupid. " .

Well tolerance is not about pride...But it def starts from humbleness and humility (both of which are in the Quran again its a problem with people not the religion)

How do you know what i thought ? And show me where i said its case with all muslims . I clearly differentiated between my muslim friends and such kind of people . You are thinking what you want to think not whats written . Idiom usage is fine and i said nowhere you are forcing something on me . Its your perception about yourself .

No this is my experience with Indians...

 

[DesiGuy]

no, Islam says that most of the religions were true and Guided by Allah SWT in their times but with the passage of time they were corrupted by Scholars of that religion and hence lost their effeciveness on mankind.... but the 2 that have been menioned in Quran to be true are IBRAHMIC religions, christianity and Judism (jews) ,,,, Its has been mentioned in Quran that Allah has sent prophets towards every nation on earth in each era.... but every Prophet got resistance from his nation......

and.....that's where problem lies in Islam.

and btw....same can be said about islamic mullahs...who have "misinterpreted" Quran and made islam lost its "superior" effectiveness on mankind..!

@ FaujHistorian
you see something wrong in his statement?

 

[Cherokee]

You equated it to truth....to something you believe all Muslims door as a fact! Hence I said read the Quran if it is there!
Have you seen how many Indians go around comparing Pakistan and India and ending the post with something like Muslims in India are happier and blaa blaa....that is more like Indians are better than Pakistan....So I dont think its Muslims problems but Indians
Well not everyone goes like that....Some rationalize and it is again an individual problem! hence I said go read the Quran to see if it thought that...

Well tolerance is not about pride...But it def starts from humbleness and humility (both of which are in the Quran again its a problem with people not the religion)

No this is my experience with Indians...

Mincing the words again dear lord . bye

I have no interest in conversing with someone who once who fails to accept their mistakes .