What should be done to Increase Religious tolerance in Pakistan/ serious Discussion

[Roybot]

Religious tolerance? Pakistan is atleast 95% Muslim, sectarian tolerance more like it.

 

[Sugarcane]

zarvan you should stay away from this, you are an extreme fundamentalist!!!
its because of people like you that we are in this situation!!

This thread actually is about controlling his kind of people.

 

[qamar1990]

This thread actually is about controlling his kind of people.

i can't believe zarvan man, the guy is brainwashed.
i feel sorry for his *** more then anything.
he refuses to register everything these terrorists have done to our country and keep on tabbing about how pakistan attacked its on people ect.
so in his mind that makes it halal or something to slighter little children and women

 

[M. Sarmad]

I think you need to read Ibn Kathir's book which was written about 100 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and with all due respect to Shibli would be more accurate in its account.

No brother , Ibn e Kathir wrote his book 700 years after the death of prophet pbuh and its a biased history . Shibli`s book is much more researched . And I quoted Bukhari , which is believed to be much more authentic than the others

How was Abu Bakr RA made Khalifa then hmm? You stated that he never wanted the job that doesn't change how he got it.

He got it as Umer r.a asked him to accept the job as he was the one closest to Muhammad pbuh of the 3 quraishis(Abu Bakr , Umer and Abu Ubaidah [r.a]) and all other Ansaris present at Saqifa . He was not elected , but selected . Ansar wanted Caliphate for themselves but they were disqualified by saying that Muhammad said that Amir will be from Quraish . Banu Hashim and family of prophet were not consulted . So they did not accept Khilafah of Abu Bakr in the beginning

There was a reason Quran doesn't specify how to say prayers and how much to pay for zakat
These things wre supposed to be decisions based on time.

Its a misconception spread by Hadith followers to justify following of Hadtith blindly

 

[Zarvan]

zarvan you should stay away from this, you are an extreme fundamentalist!!!
its because of people like you that we are in this situation!!

No it is because of secular traitors who have betrayed Islam and Muslims and mass murdered Muslims on their daddy USA orders

prayer was the finalized by 4 imams in Sunnis and Shias have their own method

4 Sunni Imams all have different method.

So what you say is not correct



Those who can run away from islamists, survive

The ones who get caught are killed without mercy.
I
That's if the victim knows before hand

Suicide bombers don't give the chance even for summary trial

Watch the practice

don't continue talking about theory.

Prayer was not finalized by 4 Imams all prayer is mentioned in hadees and sunnah and how to do it what I say doesn't matter what ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW says matter and they have told to follow Quran and Sunnah Quran and Sunnah are must for each other those who basically want to deny Quran deny Hadees because as next step they go ahead and deny Quran

No brother , Ibn e Kathir wrote his book 700 years after the death of prophet pbuh and its a biased history . Shibli`s book is much more researched . And I quoted Bukhari , which is believed to be much more authentic than the others



He got it as Umer r.a asked him to accept the job as he was the one closest to Muhammad pbuh of the 3 quraishis(Abu Bakr , Umer and Abu Ubaidah [r.a]) and all other Ansaris present at Saqifa . He was not elected , but selected . Ansar wanted Caliphate for themselves but they were disqualified by saying that Muhammad said that Amir will be from Quraish . Banu Hashim and family of prophet were not consulted . So they did not accept Khilafah of Abu Bakr in the beginning




Its a misconception spread by Hadith followers to justify following of Hadtith blindly

Its not a misconception its a truth mr Quran doesn't tell how to pray or offer zakat its Sunnat which tells all the details of every order given by the Quran

@Azlan Haider Hazrat Abu Bakar RA was selected by Sahabas and than all Sahabs took his bait including Hazrat ALI RA so stop spreading lies

 

[Zarvan]

Actually they do salah three times a day and give verses that mention 3 salah like shias do.

They are mix many of them don't offer any salah and funny thing is Shias is their prayer basically offer five prayer

 

[AhsanAmin]

How was Abu Bakr RA made Khalifa then hmm? You stated that he never wanted the job that doesn't change how he got it.
He got it as Umer r.a asked him to accept the job as he was the one closest to Muhammad pbuh of the 3 quraishis(Abu Bakr , Umer and Abu Ubaidah [r.a]) and all other Ansaris present at Saqifa . He was not elected , but selected . Ansar wanted Caliphate for themselves but they were disqualified by saying that Muhammad said that Amir will be from Quraish . Banu Hashim and family of prophet were not consulted . So they did not accept Khilafah of Abu Bakr in the beginning
FaujHistorian said: ↑
There was a reason Quran doesn't specify how to say prayers and how much to pay for zakat
These things wre supposed to be decisions based on time.
Its a misconception spread by Hadith followers to justify following of Hadtith blindly

To me it seems a bit stupid to put up fights about who should have followed our prophet(PBUH). That time has passed more than a millennium ago. Won't it be better to not fight about those differences now, as we cannot reverse time so many centuries back, but follow the good things of the religion, we all believe in. Many of the sectarian differences/fights would simply end after that.

 

[Zarvan]

To me it seems a bit stupid to put up fights about who should have followed our prophet(PBUH). That time has passed more than a millennium ago. Won't it be better to not fight about those differences now, as we cannot reverse time so many centuries back, but follow the good things of the religion, we all believe in. Many of the sectarian differences/fights would simply end after that.

They did all great things yes their were fight among Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Muawayia but the issue was of Qisase e Usman not any sectarian fight but some people like Azlan like to spread lies about Sahabas and we know who these people really are

 

[Darth Vader]

Guys what do you think, What should be done to increase religious tolerance in pakistan?
Do we need changes in constituition or we need to deal with these unwanted elements with Iron Hand?

My friend Education With Proper Education Of Islam Not What Movis tell You In Mosque ( em not calling all the molvis bad but majority of them are )
To be honest all these so called Terrorist + Molvies + Extremists Read Quran Properly for once all these things will Stop
Molvies Divide Us For their Profit the manner the groups more so called spiritual leader will take advantage of it

 

[Dubious]

What a lovely thread washed down the drain because some Indians thought it was the opportunity to do a Secularism vs Islam debate and terming 1 winner over the other....Strange how because they have no religion, Indians are trying to shove that down our throats with the smile saying freedom of speech and action....No idea why no one read the 1st page (post 8 and 14) where I already told them to mind their own business ...Just shows how many actually bother even reading the 1st page before jumping in blind (esp on threads they see Islam and Pakistan)

While others were stuck on a phone analogy which I and @raja.pakistan already rebutted the points at different incidents.....even the war of the camels was rebutted but was brought in second time for some score to settle or just lack of understanding...

What really made me laugh was someone equating oukhti (which is Arabic for sister) to something low lying to get even with a poster....

Then we had another one wrongly quoting the Quran to prove what point I didnt get...

I thank you the few Indians ( @liall @Butchcassidy @SouthDesi @shiv (he did try) @dontsuspendme (at least he read the 1st page) who did try to put in a few points (which were new from the usual ranting of educating the people or doing this and that) and also thank you to 1 Bangladeshi brother @Skies

These are the problems with your posts:

@jaunty you equated Islam to Hinduism with you post

Teach kids that it's ok if someone is different from you and a kafir is not inferior to you, he is just following a different path.

Islam doesnt promote someone being below another

O mankind, We have created you from a single male and a female and have made you into nations and tribes for you to know one another. Truly, the noblest of you with God is the most pious. Truly, God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. (Quran, 49:13)

O people! Your God is one and your forefather (Adam) is one. An Arab is not better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab is not better than an Arab, and a red (i.e. white tinged with red) person is not better than a black person and a black person is not better than a red person, except in piety... (part of Prophet's last sermon which was also presented on this thread by a Pakistani poster as a reminder but of course you missed it @Fracker post 104)

Indeed, Allah commands you to render trusts to whom they are due and when you judge between people to judge with justice. Excellent is that which Allah instructs you. Indeed, Allah is ever Hearing and Seeing. (4:58)

O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do. (5:8)

@Ravi Nair I dont even know where to start with you..You seem to agree with what you want it to be rather than agree with the reality...

They reject salah and most off them don't offer and don't often pay zakat

Really? @Zarvan bro I think you have no idea what a Quranist is do you? ...People who strictly adhere to the Quran as the only perfect source of Islamic knowledge not all ignore the hadith but many just use them as references and nothing else...if the hadith is vague they have no problem ignoring it....

They cant reject Salah when its in the Quran....they cant reject zakat coz its also in the Quran...Please read up a little more about them ...

Thank you!

 

[BATMAN]

No brother , Ibn e Kathir wrote his book 700 years after the death of prophet pbuh and its a biased history . Shibli`s book is much more researched . And I quoted Bukhari , which is believed to be much more authentic than the others

Most of the Islamic history books are adulterated from the period between 16-18th century and continued.
As i said we have different Quran...... and you talk about conflicting history books!
Therefore, the best way to avoid conflict is religious branding in public should be banned.
Exactly, like OP was intended for ideas but, intolerant bunch hijacked it and took it to the direction, where they think is there preferred battle field.

 

[Zarvan]

What a lovely thread washed down the drain because some Indians thought it was the opportunity to do a Secularism vs Islam debate and terming 1 winner over the other....Strange how because they have no religion, Indians are trying to shove that down our throats with the smile saying freedom of speech and action....No idea why no one read the 1st page (post 8 and 14) where I already told them to mind their own business ...Just shows how many actually bother even reading the 1st page before jumping in blind (esp on threads they see Islam and Pakistan)

While others were stuck on a phone analogy which I and @raja.pakistan already rebutted the points at different incidents.....even the war of the camels was rebutted but was brought in second time for some score to settle or just lack of understanding...

What really made me laugh was someone equating oukhti (which is Arabic for sister) to something low lying to get even with a poster....

Then we had another one wrongly quoting the Quran to prove what point I didnt get...

I thank you the few Indians ( @liall @shiv (he did try) @dontsuspendme (at least he read the 1st page) who did try to put in a few points (which were new from the usual ranting of educating the people or doing this and that) and also thank you to 1 Bangladeshi brother @Skies

These are the problems with your posts:

@jaunty you equated Islam to Hinduism with you post




Islam doesnt promote someone being below another




@Ravi Nair I dont even know where to start with you..You seem to agree with what you want it to be rather than agree with the reality...


Really? @Zarvan bro I think you have no idea what a Quranist is do you? ...People who strictly adhere to the Quran as the only perfect source of Islamic knowledge not all ignore the hadith but many just use them as references and nothing else...if the hadith is vague they have no problem ignoring it....

They cant reject Salah when its in the Quran....they cant reject zakat coz its also in the Quran...Please read up a little more about them ...

Thank you!

Ladies they do it both most of them now don't offer salah and most of them don't pay zakat because as no details are in Quran so they deny Hadees and as no details in Quran so why follow them Mr I have met few they were quite great in number few decades back because they were being supported by Ayub Khan but they are now not much and they mostly deny all orders in the Quran and come up with most idiotic translation of Salah and other things

 

[Dubious]

No he did not !! And Never did Abu Bakr r.a say that prophet left Khilafa to him . In Bukhari we read that Abu Bakar r.a offered Khilafah to Omer r.a, But Omer refused and offered khilafah back to Abu Bakr . Later Abu Bakr used to say that he did wrong by choosing to be a caliph , he should have preffered "vizarat" over "Amarat" . Also we read in Sahihain that when omer was asked that why did he offer Khilafah to Abu Bakr , he used to say it was a impulsive decision . They never claimed that prophet left Khilafah for them . In Bukhari we also read that Omer said clearly that prophet (pbuh) did not appoint any successor . The story you are following is a much later invention

Sorry I just googled it and found the author of such a story "Montgomery Watt"

Abu Bakr then asked people to choose between 'Umar ibn al-Khattab and Abu 'Ubaydah ibn al-Jarrah. Hearing this, both men jumped to their feet and exclaimed "O Siddiq, how can that be? How can anyone else fill this position as long as you are among us? You are the top man amongst he Muhajirun. You were the Companion of the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam in the Thawr cave. You led prayers in his place, during his last illness. Prayer is the foremost thing in Islam. With all these qualifications you are the fittest person to be the successor of the Holy Prophet. Hold out your hand that we may pledge loyalty to you."

But Abu Bakr did not stretch out his hand. 'Umar saw that the delay might lead to the reopening of the disagreements so he himself took Abu Bakr's hand out and pledged loyalty to him. Others followed by example, and Abu Bakr became the first Caliph by general consent of the Muslims.

On topic : @FaujHistorian is right . The only way to increase religious tolerance is to follow words of Quaid and separate religion from the state .

I am sorry I have to disagree because so far the religion is separated from the state...No fatwah nor any religious gathering in the masjid nor any sermon is recorded so state seriously doesnt even have any idea how many masjids there are and how many sects ....We already have the state divided from the religion and see what it has brought to us....New surprises!

 

[Zarvan]

Sorry I just googled it and found the author of such a story "Montgomery Watt"



I am sorry I have to disagree because so far the religion is separated from the state...No fatwah nor any religious gathering in the masjid nor any sermon is recorded so state seriously doesnt even have any idea how many masjids there are and how many sects ....We already have the state divided from the religion and see what it has brought to us....New surprises!

Those who think Islam is separate from the state their knowledge of Islam is worse than Abu Juhal because he and all the enemies of Islam and PROPHETS SAW knew that Islam is a system and that is they fought it and try to stop its spread

 

[Dubious]

Ladies they do it both most of them now don't offer salah and most of them don't pay zakat because as no details are in Quran so they deny Hadees and as no details in Quran so why follow them

Ayats with a time of day mentioned where the word "salat" IS mentioned
1. 11:114at both ends of the day ṭarafayi l-nahāri
2. 11:114 the near part(s) of the night wazulafan mina al-layli.
3. 5:6 when you rise idhā qum'tum
4. 62:10once the l-ṣalatu is complete,
5. 62:10 frequently kathīran,
6. 73:20a little less than two thirds of the night,
7. 73:20 and half of it,
8. 73:20 and one third of it,

9. 4:142very little.
10. 62:9 on the day of assembly yawmi l-jumuʿati,
11. 17:78at the setting lidulūki of the sun l-shamsi,
12. 17:78 until the darkness ghasaqi of the night al-layli;
13. 17:78 and a Quran at dawn l-fajri,

14. 17:79 From the night waminaal-layli
15. 4:103when you qaḍaytumu the l-ṣalata,
16. 4:103 When you are relieved
17. 24:58ṣalati l-fajri,
18. 24:58ṣalati l-ʿishāi.
19. 2:238 wal-ṣalati l-wus'ṭā,

Mr I have met few they were quite great in number few decades back because they were being supported by Ayub Khan but they are now not much and they mostly deny all orders in the Quran and come up with most idiotic translation of Salah and other things

I am not sure who you met..If they are followers of the Quran then they will follow the Quran and not deny it....You probably met their opposites who labelled themselves as Quranists to degrade them...because a quranist doesnt label himself nor advertises what he or she is...You can tell by them only referring to the Quran and not many refer to the Hadith!