Tribute to Language movement

[BDforever]

ok saifool , the question was for @BDforever but thanks for choosing to reply.


in the same sense urdu IS bengali.

most of us muslims , thats why many of us have arabic or farsi names

 

[livingdead]

If I am not mistaken, most Muslims all over the work have Quranic names. So it's not a Bangladeshi thing specifically.

what is quranic about Recep Tayip Erdogan? Susilo Bambang Yudhodono?
Persians have a bit of arabic mix in their language, even then many of their names are distinctly persian.

most of us muslims , thats why many of us have arabic or farsi names

well urdu has quite a lot of arabic words, why could not it be the national language. Was it only hindus of bangladesh who were opposing or muslims too?

 

[khair_ctg]

ok saifool , the question was for @BDforever but thanks for choosing to reply.


in the same sense urdu IS bengali.

urdu and bengali don't have names that are uniquely urdu or bengali. in both languages people keep names with origins in arabi or farsi (rarely of turkic origin). so even if they are technically different but similar languages the naming convention used by people is identical

 

[jaunty]

what is quranic about Recep Tayip Erdogan? Susilo Bambang Yudhodono?
Persians have a bit of arabic mix in their language, even then many of their names are distinctly persian.

Interesting observation. I actually thought about it after I had posted that yesterday. You are right, many Turks and Iranians use their local names. Maybe because of the fact that they don't view Arabs as superiors like many SC Muslims do. Also they don't hate their original culture.

 

[livingdead]

Interesting observation. I actually thought about it after I had posted that yesterday. You are right, many Turks and Iranians use their local names. Maybe because of the fact that they don't view Arabs as superiors like many SC Muslims do. Also they don't hate their original culture.

my point was not about the religious custom that south asian muslims follow , or way they name themselves.
I think its more of a convention than considering arabs superior.
My point is why did they oppose urdu (a more arabic/persianized language) , when punjabi muslims or sindhi muslims did not oppose. It was not their mother language too.
Do bangladeshi regret opposing it now? Especially when they take so much pride in speaking a bit of hindi/urdu whenever they can.

 

[jaunty]

Especially when they take so much pride in speaking a bit of hindi/urdu whenever they can.

That's not true in real life. Those who randomly use Urdu words in English sentences here are not very happy being Bangladeshi. In real life most Bangladeshis are proud of their independence.

 

[M. Sarmad]

what is quranic about Recep Tayip Erdogan?

Behind the Name: Meaning, Origin and History of the Name Recep
Behind the Name: Meaning, Origin and History of the Name Tayyip

Rajab is the seventh month of Islamic calendar (Rajab is one of the four sacred months mentioned in the Quran)
Tayyab is also arabic word and is mentioned in Quran

 

[Al-zakir]

Behind the Name: Meaning, Origin and History of the Name Recep
Behind the Name: Meaning, Origin and History of the Name Tayyip

Rajab is the seventh month of Islamic calendar (Rajab is one of the four sacred months mentioned in the Quran)
Tayyab is also arabic word and is mentioned in Quran

Head is ours yet Bhartis dying out of head ace.

 

[IamBengali]

Arabic / Farsi names are given since there is believe that Arabic is a sacred language in Islam and for Muslim its a must to be named after Arabic or Farsi. Both languages have huge influence in Bangladesh. Most Bangladeshi Muslims have two names. One is full name which is in Arabic or Farsi and a nick name which is Arabic / Farsi or Bengali.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

VIDEO: Rival Bangladeshi groups clash as Whitechapel memorial sparks violence

Adam Barnett, ReporterFriday, February 21, 2014
3:52 PM

EXCLUSIVE: A pitched battle broke out last night between Bangladeshi groups in a Whitechapel park, with women and children caught in the middle.

Metal barricades were used as makeshift weapons in Altab Ali Park in the latest spillover of Bangladeshi politics onto the streets of the East End.

Police broke up the fighting and cleared everyone from the park, but it is not believed any arrests were made.

Hundreds had gathered in the park at midnight to place flowers at the Shaheed Minar (Martyr Monument) for the annual Bangladeshi Martyrs Day ceremony.

But flowers gave way to fists as the night turned violent after a war of words between rival groups over controversial war crimes trials in Bangladesh.

Ajanta Deb Roy, an activist and radio presenter for Radio Betar Bangla, said the fighting started when one group took issue with the slogans being chanted by the other group.

She said: “They were calling for the death penalty for war criminals, and the others didn’t like it, so they started throwing threatening words.

“First it was verbal, and then they started attacking, and when they did the others fought back.”

Ms Roy said the clashes lasted three or four minutes before police intervened.

She said: “They didn’t like the slogans so they took those barricades and they wanted to beat us. They were very aggressive.

“Normal people were there to give flowers when the fighting started. One kid was crying. He was six or seven years old.

“Then the police came and threw both groups out of the park.”

Tensions have been bubbling in the East End over the International Crimes Tribunal in Bangladesh, which is trying men accused of war crimes during the country’s 1971 liberation war.

Death threats have been received by activists in London and some have been attacked in the street.

VIDEO: Rival Bangladeshi groups clash as Whitechapel memorial sparks violence - Court & Crime - East London Advertiser

 

[IamBengali]

Protest against Jinnah's declaration of Urdu as sole national language in both wings.

 

[khair_ctg]

1.Poet Alaol of Arakan is the first known poet in Bangla.Alaol was an artillery gen in the service of the Sultan of Arakan. He used the Persian script. More than 200 years later English Co's clerk Kerry introduced the modern Bangla script. The English then were trying all measures to befriend/promote the Hindus, and Muslims were then the joint target of Hindus and the English.

2.During the so called Bengal Renaissance, Bengalee Muslims were totally absent from the media,elite class and the intelligentsia of Calcutta. Bengalee Muslims were literally barred from publishing by the Babus of Calcutta. This changed with the appearance of BD's national poet Nazrul. Nazrul was greatly supported by the rising Muslim elite led by Sher e Bangla Fazlul Huq. No wonder there has always been a suspicion that the jealous Hindus had muted this great rebel poet by drugging him. Since 1947 Bengalee Muslim writers/poets have taken the language to new heights overshadowing the preponderance of Hindu culture that had been introduced by the Calcutta writers.

3. Urdu had flourished in the Bengal Presidency which had included Bihar. Till quite late in Britsh rule Persian was the official/court language of Bengal.Urdu was the language used by the Bengalee Muslim educated/elite class. Although Urdu has been scrapped in BD, and I emphasize,for political reasons, it remains one of the two state languages of P/bangla. Urdu used to be and continues to be the common language of S Asian Muslims.

4. Bangla is a great language and a major language of the world. Urdu has it's own place. There can be no conflict among languages, only among political expedients. One in every five Muslims speaks Bangla.

Musalmani bengali was never quite *fully* standardized owing to the feature of local dialects and a profound practice of Urdu, Farsi and Arabic among the Muslims of Bengal. there was limited practice (?) of Bengali in Nastaliq (Persian-Arabic) script by Muslims though in the 18th century though (@kalu_miah). the Bengali language later standardized by Hindus had been the language of high caste Hindus and in today’s Bangladesh it has somehow become a “book Bangla” although it was alien to all socioeconomic classes of Bengal Muslims even in the 20th century. i pasted some extracts from “’The Language of Respectability' and the (Re)Constitution of Muslim Selves in Colonial Bengal” by Samantha Arnold in Identity and Global Politics (2004). The educated Muslims are referred as ashraf and uneducated Muslims (mostly thought to be of indigenous ‘convert’ background) as atrap.


As I have noted, underlying those arguments concerned to demonstrate that Urdu is the language of the ashraf even while admitting that Bengali may well be the mother-tongue of the atrap is the (re)production of an image of Muslims in Bengal as belonging to two distinct communities—"real" Muslims on the one hand, and "half-Muslim" converts on the other. However, there were arguments “in the air” suggestive of quite a different agenda: rather than (re)producing the distinction between ashraf and atrap. some arguments seemed intended to deploy Urdu in order to awe that distinction—the perception of a growing imperative to accomplish precisely such an erasure was brought into sharp focus over the last decades of the nineteenth century. This need to cultivate "fellow-feeling" between the "higher Musalmans° and the “lower orders" placed the ashraf in a difficult position; as Saeed/Hussein recognized in 1880. the cultivation of a sense of community between the athraf and the atrap was significantly compromised by the former's unwillingness or inability to use anything but Urdu (at least in public). The task of transcending the linguistic barrier would thus be placed squarely upon the atrap—if the Urdu-speaking Muslims would not use Bengali, then the Bengali-speaking “converts”- would have to adopt Urdu. This is in fact something many were eager to do in the context of the reformist movements of the late nineteenth century and the "ashrafization" attending the increased wealth of many Muslim cultivators that sparked among the atrap a rejection of Bengali culture and language. As Rafiuddin Ahmed has argued in this context, “virtually everyone was keen to discard his Bengali identity and be recognized as an ashraf of alien origin," and the adoption of Urdu provided away for these "half-Muslims” to reconstitute themselves as “true” and “respectable” Muslims. The discursive erasure of the line separating Urdu-speaking Muslims from Bengali-speaking Muslims was apparent in the admission by some ashraf that perhaps Bengali was not the mother-tongue of the atrap Muslims after all. Abdul Karim was vocal in his opposition to the idea of introducing Urdu as the mother-tongue of Bengali Muslims but nevertheless contributed to the notion that Bengali's status as the mother-tongue was not unassailable. He argued in 1900 that:

Properly speaking the Musulmano of Bengal have no particular language of their own, as their distinct dialect does not deserve to be called by this name. The assumption that Bengali is the vernacular of all the Musalmans Is not wholly correct. In large towns many Musalmans speak Urdu, while in the Mufussil the mother-tongue of the respectable Musalmans is a kind of Bengali which is different from pure Bengali.
Here, we see an effort to establish a distinction between the Bengali spoken by the Hindus from that spoken by respectable Muslims in the countryside. This goes some way toward including the Bestgali-speaking Muslims within the limits of the “orthodox” by establishing that while many Muslims did not speak Urdu as their mother-tongue, nor did they speak Bengali. Importantly, these quasi-Bengali-speaking Muslims (a reference to the "Musalmani Bengali” spoken by many Muslims, a dialect that was fundamentally Bengali but marked by its inclusion of Arabic and Persian vocabularies) are described as "respectable," a characterization that serves to alter the test of "orthodoxy" such that the requirement of “real” Muslims is not so much that they speak Urdu, but rather that they do not speak Bengali.
(continued)

1.Poet Alaol of Arakan is the first known poet in Bangla.Alaol was an artillery gen in the service of the Sultan of Arakan. He used the Persian script. More than 200 years later English Co's clerk Kerry introduced the modern Bangla script. The English then were trying all measures to befriend/promote the Hindus, and Muslims were then the joint target of Hindus and the English.

2.During the so called Bengal Renaissance, Bengalee Muslims were totally absent from the media,elite class and the intelligentsia of Calcutta. Bengalee Muslims were literally barred from publishing by the Babus of Calcutta. This changed with the appearance of BD's national poet Nazrul. Nazrul was greatly supported by the rising Muslim elite led by Sher e Bangla Fazlul Huq. No wonder there has always been a suspicion that the jealous Hindus had muted this great rebel poet by drugging him. Since 1947 Bengalee Muslim writers/poets have taken the language to new heights overshadowing the preponderance of Hindu culture that had been introduced by the Calcutta writers.

3. Urdu had flourished in the Bengal Presidency which had included Bihar. Till quite late in Britsh rule Persian was the official/court language of Bengal.Urdu was the language used by the Bengalee Muslim educated/elite class. Although Urdu has been scrapped in BD, and I emphasize,for political reasons, it remains one of the two state languages of P/bangla. Urdu used to be and continues to be the common language of S Asian Muslims.

4. Bangla is a great language and a major language of the world. Urdu has it's own place. There can be no conflict among languages, only among political expedients. One in every five Muslims speaks Bangla.

...........
This line of reasoning is picked up by another observer, who argued not only that Bengali was not the mother-tongue of Muslims in Bengal, but on the contrary that Urdu, or something like it, served in this function for all Bengali Muslims. Muzhar-i-Tawheed, to whose letter to the editor of the Mussalman I have already referred, makes an argument to that effect. He begins by asserting that, "if we are sure of anything, we are sure of this, that Bengali is as much foreign to the Mussalmans of Bengal as any other foreign tongue. But, as is clear from what follows. Tawheed’s characterization of Bengali as a “foreign tongue" applies not only to the ashraf, but also to the atrap, who speak, according to Tawheed:

... in a jargon which a Hindu will probably not understand. for only the pronouns and verbs are Bengali. and the rest Urdu. Persian. and Arabic ... This is the language to which Moulavi Abdul Karim Saheb characterises as "a kind of Bengali' which the "agriculturalists speak." But it is respectfully submitted that it is not "a kind of Bengali" but a kind of Urdu. So. the Muslim majority of Bengal speaks a kind of Urdu, while the minority speaks complete and through Urdu, though had Urdu"'

Quite a different approach was taken by some Muslims who accepted that Urdu was not the mother-tongue of all Muslims in Bengal, but who argued that it should be. There is evidence of this in the protestations of those opposed to this move. For example, the editor of the Naba-Nur a journal known for its liberal editorial policy on social issues complained in 1903 about those Muslims who 'desire to create a single mother-tongue for Muslims throughout the whole of India by forcibly conferring upon Urdu the status of the mother-tongue of Bengali Muslims:" the Darsan similarly notes in 1913 that “some Moslems in Bengal are trying to make Urdu their mother-tongue." In 1916, Abdul Malek Chowdhury pointed in the Al-Elsam to the “many people (who] still cling to the unnatural and extraordinary desire to sow the seed of Urdu in the soil of Bengal,” while Mozaffar Ahmad noted in the same journal the following year that non-Bengali Muslims "are trying to promote their mother-tongue on the grounds that Urdu literature has attained the peak of excellence and therefore Bengalis by virtue of being Muslim ought to learn Urdu. What is clear in each instance is the sense that the advocates of Urdu were trying to displace the “local” mother-tongue with a “foreign” language, and in this way, the associ-ation of Urdu with the ("foreign') ashraf, and of Bengali with the (“local”) atrap was maintained. With specific reference to the last example, it is espe-cially telling to note that while the distinction between “Bengalis” and “non-Bengalis” is maintained and Urdu is described as the mother-tongue only of the latter, the former are urged to adopt Urdu "by virtue of being Muslim." Here we see a discursive turn having the effect of reinforcing the distinction between "Bengalis" and "non-Bengalis” while simultaneously calling on "Bengalis" to transcend the linguistic barrier between them. Most importantly, the “Bengalis” are encouraged to do so precisely because they are also Muslim. This is especially interesting because it has the effect of constituting the Bengalis as "Muslims' in advance of their acquisition of the very "Islamic languages" needed to be a "good' Muslim.

also posted here Musalmani Bangla and its transformation | Page 10

 

[punit]

Whom are you kidding? We have too many ignorant, delusional and very confused people. I called them half baked bigot. They also think Islamabad was build with Jute money yet question comes in mind:

How Pakistan survived without East Pakistan so called "Jute money"?
What ever happen to so called golden fiber Jute in 2014?

We guys are 1000% better of without Bd. Go and reach height while we sort out the argument on "71" nonsense. We deserve nothing but Lanat.





Shahadat is pure Islamic concept. I don't think some one will be granted shahadat because he died for language or breaking up Muslim nation in half. If anything, they will receive Lanat.

Shaheed minar should be renamed to "lanat minar". Bloody delusional fools.

sucking up got up by a whole league !!!

 

[LaBong]

My point is why did they oppose urdu (a more arabic/persianized language) , when punjabi muslims or sindhi muslims did not oppose. It was not their mother language too.

That is because most punjabis already knew urdu enough to communicate without a hitch. Actually most of West India knows hindustani very well as opposed to South Indians and East Indians. Do you know any punjabi, gujrati, marwari or marathi who doesn't know hindustani? OK maybe some people in rural frontier or sindh didn't know urdu but they were not calling the shots, North indian Muslims were deciding the fate of Pakistan back them.

This has been a favourite excuse for Pakistanis that urdu is not a native language of any ethnicity in Pakistan but what they conveniently forget to mention that urdu already used as lingua franca in mot of West Pakistan and they also used nastaliq script to write their native languages, as opposed to Bengalis who had their own script and had very limited knowledge of Hindustani. So if urdu became the national language and used as the only language in competitive exams and govt jobs , bengalis had to compete with West Pakistanis while being in a very discriminated position.

There was a valid reason for language movement and no matter how Pakistanis try to spin it now, they screwed up and sowed discontent in bengalis.

India acted in more matured way with Tamils and other regional groups.

Also Bengalis tend to put their language on high pedestal and it's literary heritage dwarfs most other languages of India. So it's easier for a West Punjabi to accept Urdu than a Bengali.

It's like Persian kept their language but Egyptian didn't.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

So @BDforever , what is your bong nickname? Heard people in Bengal have 2 names