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Time to abandon Ummah / brotherhood for greater good of the nation?

Thank you for admitting the truth, now i can't wait till Iran starts behaving aggressive, i would love to see the expressions on your faces.





Lol, like we care. It wouldn't make a difference for us if you do strengthen your relations with india, in fact it will benefit Pakistan more than anything, so gee, thank you!!! :agree: :enjoy:

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Flag-Pins-Iran-Pakistan.jpg

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:pakistan:
As I have always said, Pakistan should have the best relations with all.
 
I am glad we reached an agreement. You ally with starving Iranians, we ally with the world's next super power.

india-saudi-flags.jpg

Calm down brother, I know you are angry, just don't give Sombozo any attention. He seems angry with his Arab boss at work.:lol:

You can't deny your love for Pakistan. :pakistan:
 
Brother, do you want me to lie to you?. I really love Pakistan and hope all the best for her and her people, but I have never thought of Islam unity, we aren't able to unite as Arabs, then how could you expect me to be pro-Islam unity? this is unrealistic nor logical.Our interests should be united , we should support each other in times of need, that's it. Sombozo and others whining over Brotherhood with us, portraying us as a defendless innocent little girl who desperately crying for brotherhood. While this girl hasn't thought of Islam unity ever. She only calls for interests unity based on a common ground which is Islam.

Thats my honest answer to you brother.

Okay...fair enough ! Though it will happen one day; if Europe with their diverse cultures, languages and history can integrate so well....we, who are, as per some, even commanded to do so, are bound to integrate similarly (if not even more) - But perhaps lets leave that to a better, more mature generation of Muslims !
 
I am glad we reached an agreement. You ally with starving Iranians,
"Starving" Iranians? They sure don't look starving to me:

iran-election33.jpg



we ally with the world's next super power.

:rofl::lol:

Ok ok ok, wait, bpsush :rofl:, i can't stop laughing!!!!

Take a look at your next "super power" ally (looks like they are the new definition of a "super power"):

****** India Photos, Chinese Netizen Reactions – chinaSMACK

********.com - Real Cannibal Footage From the Hindu Sect Aghori

BBC News - 'More poor' in India than Africa

BTW, are you going to call them to save your behinds just as you called Americans to save you from Saddam?

It will be hysterical to see hindu women defending Arabs :lol:.


Enjoy your relationship with india! :wave: :enjoy:
 
Someozo, Desert Fox: I have no time to waste on these Arabs.
But I tell you what is distressing, seeing our dumbfcuks lick them,
there is some of them saying they will fight for KSA even if their home is on fire.
That is distressing. How did we end up with rejects like these?
 
I've believed very strongly in Iqbal's immortal words :

'Nazarei daireena zamaanee ko dikha dei - aii Mustafavi khak mein iss buuut ko milla dei'

Eng : Show the panorama of the old world once more (time of the rightly guided caliphs) - Oh followers of Mostapha (PBUH) turn this new idol (etho-linguistic nationalism) into dust.

But apparently our man-made languages and ethnic divisions (not racial) that Islam was supposed to transcend have too much of a hold on us....!

Humans have lived in tribes for 99% of their history, Humans are believed to have been on Earth for ~ 150,000 - 200,000 years.

Civilisation is only 50000 years old. Abrahamic religion is 2000 years old.

You cannot expect people to fully adapt to something so recent.

Tribalism, Ethno-centralism is in our biological make up. Which is why Arabs favor an Arab union, not an Islamic one.

Also why the Ottoman empire failed.
 
I've believed very strongly in Iqbal's immortal words :

'Nazarei daireena zamaanee ko dikha dei - aii Mustafavi khak mein iss buuut ko milla dei'

Eng : Show the panorama of the old world once more (time of the rightly guided caliphs) - Oh followers of Mostapha (PBUH) turn this new idol (etho-linguistic nationalism) into dust.

But apparently our man-made languages and ethnic divisions (not racial) that Islam was supposed to transcend have too much of a hold on us....!

How many Arabs know about Iqbal?

How many Arabs know about Jinnah?

How many Arabs know about the contributions of Iqbal to Islamic thought and the Muslim world?

In fact, Arabs might consider him a heretic because his beliefs were conform to those of Sufi Saints.

Heck, if Arabs knew Salahudin Ayubi was a Sufi they'd probably declare him a heretic as well.
 
Alright, then do us all a favor and leave Canada and go to Saudi Arabia or GCC countries and clean some Arab sheikhs toilet for free, you will surely be awarded for your unconditional service to your "ummah". :lol:

Lead the way!!!

So what you are telling this forum is that you are a toilet cleaner for free some where somehow.
As a true Muslim I won't be asking for any reward if that has to help the Ummah.
So Canada belongs to your mother or father? or are you jealous?
Let me assure you that there is nothing here to be jealous of.
I volunteered ounce for Afghanistan, and some people from Canada won't allow me and this was more than 20 years ago, you S.O.B
 
I agreed with you, but i disagree with what BLACKEAGLE is trying to imply by quoting your post out of context.

IE:

"Unfortunately many Pakistanis do attach too much importance on the contributions of our country resulting in them thinking they are just way too important or needed by the Muslim world. Combine that with their ailing desire for a Muslim "Ummah" & a bunch of "conspiracy" theories; that is a recipe for disaster."

And i in reply stated this:

"Well, if you are implying that i am among those Pakistanis who believe; "the Muslim world would be destroyed if it wasn't for Pakistan or its nuclear bomb", then you are wrong. In fact, i based my argument on recent events taking place in the ME, as well as historical events involving Pakistan in one way or another."

I think people can read our full conversation in my previous post here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...rhood-greater-good-nation-18.html#post2928342

That is not the right reply to that post of mine. Here I will quote it again.

Unfortunately many Pakistanis do attach too much importance on the contributions of our country resulting in them thinking they are just way too important or needed by the Muslim world. Combine that with their ailing desire for a Muslim "Ummah" & a bunch of "conspiracy" theories; that is a recipe for disaster.

This attitude has led them to neglecting their own country while either cheering for someone else or desperately trying to reaffirm their title as some sort of "fortress of Islam".

Original Post By p(-)0ENiX

After that

I agree with p(-)0ENiX that we Pakistanis do care too much for arabs and we should indeed stop risking ourselves for unthankful arab countries.

Original Post By Desert Fox

After that came the remainder of our posts on this subject. I still believe what I said earlier was true. Pakistanis should forget about others & focus on themselves.

in other words, i based my argument on facts, links to sources rather than some made up stories to satisfy my ego.

My posts on the thread ; "Will Arab states support Pakistan militarily in future conflict with India?" were in reply to the thread question; we helped them and continue to do so (i presented facts for this claim) and therefore they have an obligation to assist us if ever the need arises (though God Forbid considering the arrogant nature of these snobby Arabs).

Whose "ego" are you talking about? I admit that while you were arguing with the other members on that thread the sources you used were authentic for the most part. However I think we should forget about the help we have given to other nations. Countries like Saudi Arabia have managed to repay us our favors to them financially. Pakistan & the Arab nations should work for their own self-sufficiency & not rely on each other any more.

I've believed very strongly in Iqbal's immortal words :

'Nazarei daireena zamaanee ko dikha dei - aii Mustafavi khak mein iss buuut ko milla dei'

Eng : Show the panorama of the old world once more (time of the rightly guided caliphs) - Oh followers of Mostapha (PBUH) turn this new idol (etho-linguistic nationalism) into dust.

But apparently our man-made languages and ethnic divisions (not racial) that Islam was supposed to transcend have too much of a hold on us....!

Those races & languages & in fact all our diversity as a specie is a miracle of God, this must be looked after & preserved.

Like I said earlier, Muslim nations can still help each other out & have good relations with each other, however don't be obsessed with that idea. All people regardless of who they are will always feel closer to those who are similar to them, this is entirely natural. Islam does bind us together, but we must work for our own success.

The Arab GCC nations are forming their own union, & I am sure that will work out very well for them.

On a side note, why don't Muslims desire unity among the Children of Adam? All of mankind has one origin but God divided them in to different groups as a sign from Him. Thus while we are brothers & sisters, we are also unique & different from each other. We should help each other out, but we must focus on improving the lives of our own people.
 
LOL, how old are you?
You probably won't be able to make Hajj until 50 years from now.
Me on the other hand, I did it 3 times already, and thinking about doing it this year.
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Is it a joke?
If one lives in SA he can do it every year, so 3 times are really nothing!
 
I am glad we reached an agreement. You ally with starving Iranians, we ally with the world's next super power.

india-saudi-flags.jpg


More like...ally with the next super power of our national masturbation obession...they do keep pouring those saucy bollywood dances now in Arabic subtitles too!




Jeeee.....Another example of bottom hurt and inherently insecure...

Iran gas pipeline: Saudi offer | DAWN.COM

S. Arabia offers help to tide over energy crisis | DAWN.COM


ISLAMABAD: Saudi Arabia looks askance at Pakistan’s commitment to pursue energy cooperation with Iran and is nudging the government to reconsider its decision.

This was the essence of a message from the Saudi King conveyed by Saudi Deputy Foreign Minister Prince Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz in his meetings with Pakistani leaders on Tuesday, Arab diplomatic sources based in Islamabad said.

Riyadh is said to have offered an ‘alternative package’ to meet Islamabad’s growing energy needs in an effort to persuade it to abandon the Iran gas pipeline and electricity/oil import deals
.

How will you digest this:

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How many Arabs know about Iqbal?

How many Arabs know about Jinnah?

How many Arabs know about the contributions of Iqbal to Islamic thought and the Muslim world?

In fact, Arabs might consider him a heretic because his beliefs were conform to those of Sufi Saints.

Heck, if Arabs knew Salahudin Ayubi was a Sufi they'd probably declare him a heretic as well.

He was? oh good. Who the hell told you we regard Sufi heretics? we just don't agree on few details and that doesn't mean they are heretics. Weird...:disagree:
 
So what you are telling this forum is that you are a toilet cleaner for free some where somehow.
:lol:, I was only giving you your own advice, ie; free service for the ummah :woot:



As a true Muslim I won't be asking for any reward if that has to help the Ummah.
Then go do it, the sheikh doesn't do dirty work himself.

So Canada belongs to your mother or father? or are you jealous?
Canada is a "kafir" country, you should go to the land of "ummah" where i'm sure you woudn't object to free service.
Let me assure you that there is nothing here to be jealous of.
Why would i be jealous of your "ummah" delusions? :lol:
I volunteered ounce for Afghanistan , and some people won't allow me and this was mor then 20 years ago,
Ounce of what? are you a terrorist?


you S.O.B

Oooh, i'm so offended :oops:.


you S.O.B :P
 
Humans have lived in tribes for 99% of their history, Humans are believed to have been on Earth for ~ 150,000 - 200,000 years.

Civilisation is only 50000 years old. Abrahamic religion is 2000 years old.

You cannot expect people to fully adapt to something so recent.

Tribalism, Ethno-centralism is in our biological make up. Which is why Arabs favor an Arab union, not an Islamic one.

Also why the Ottoman empire failed.

Indeed sir we have ! Humans have out-grown much worse forms of distinguishing one from the other 'race' probably tops the list ! Islam, as I have understood it to be, does away with all of that and instead aims to find unity in a 'common collective consciousness'; but this is not to say that we cease to exist who we are or cease to speak the languages that our fathers and their fathers before them have spoke for centuries it only means in the words of Iqbal : 'Islam is neither Nationalism nor Imperialism but a League of Nations which recognizes artificial boundaries and racial distinctions for facility of reference only, and not for restricting the social horizon of its members.' Which is to say that this unification, according to him, was possible either through a league of Muslim nations, or through a combination of several independent Muslim States tied to each other for purely economic and political considerations.

P.S the Ottoman Empire failed because the Brits sold the idea of territorial Nationalism to the Arabs and carved out hitherto unknown boundaries out of what had been Ottoman Lands for many centuries !
 
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