Time to abandon Ummah / brotherhood for greater good of the nation?

[VCheng]

How about forming the BROTHERHOOD of MANKIND ?

Do we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya before or after forming this mythical entity? Will there be a rainbow in the sky when that happens?

 

[The SC]

Humans have lived in tribes for 99% of their history, Humans are believed to have been on Earth for ~ 150,000 - 200,000 years.

Civilisation is only 50000 years old. Abrahamic religion is 2000 years old.

You cannot expect people to fully adapt to something so recent.

Tribalism, Ethno-centralism is in our biological make up. Which is why Arabs favor an Arab union, not an Islamic one.

Also why the Ottoman empire failed.

My dear friend and brother, Islam to an Arab is like his skin, blood or heart.
Tribalism is a fact all over the world, most nations of the world today are amalgams of old tribes that have been dissolved to constitute new bigger ones.

 

[somebozo]

Calm down brother, I know you are angry, just don't give Sombozo any attention. He seems angry with his Arab boss at work.

You can't deny your love for Pakistan.

Since you cant stop you racist rants...let me put it straight for....

I never had a Arab boss but sure..I have do have a Jordanian college who is very decent and qualified person and you seems to be a national embarrassment..

 

[Armstrong]

How many Arabs know about Iqbal?

How many Arabs know about Jinnah?

How many Arabs know about the contributions of Iqbal to Islamic thought and the Muslim world?

In fact, Arabs might consider him a heretic because his beliefs were conform to those of Sufi Saints.

Heck, if Arabs knew Salahudin Ayubi was a Sufi they'd probably declare him a heretic as well.

How many Non-Arabs know of Iqbal and Jinnah ? Now tell me 'How many Arabs and Non-Arabs know of Gandhi ?' - So whose fault is this...? Akbar Ahmed, a celebrated Muslim Scholar and the producer and writer of the movie 'Jinnah', lamented on how we've failed miserably in introducing Jinnah or Iqbal to the rest of the world.

P.S Ever heard of Tariq Ramadan, a grandson of Hassan al Banaa - the founder of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood - he cites Iqbal as his inspiration !

 

[Desert Fox]

I think people can read our full conversation in my previous post here:

Of course they can.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...rhood-greater-good-nation-18.html#post2928342

That is not the right reply to that post of mine. Here I will quote it again.



After that



After that came the remainder of our posts on this subject. I still believe what I said earlier was true. Pakistanis should forget about others & focus on themselves.



Whose "ego" are you talking about? I admit that while you were arguing with the other members on that thread the sources you used were authentic for the most part. However I think we should forget about the help we have given to other nations. Countries like Saudi Arabia have managed to repay us our favors to them financially. Pakistan & the Arab nations should work for their own self-sufficiency & not rely on each other any more.

As i said, my posts on that thread were in accordance to the topic of that thread, so i see nothing wrong with them. In fact, most of my posts on that thread were in reply to other posts posted by members.

How many Non-Arabs know of Iqbal and Jinnah ? Now tell me 'How many Arabs and Non-Arabs know of Gandhi ?' - So whose fault is this...? Akbar Ahmed, a celebrated Muslim Scholar and the producer and writer of the movie 'Jinnah', lamented on how we've failed miserably in introducing Jinnah or Iqbal to the rest of the world.

P.S Ever heard of Tariq Ramadan, a grandson of Hassan al Banaa - the founder of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood - he cites Iqbal as his inspiration !

I agree, we haven't done anything to introduce Jinnah and Iqbal to the rest of the world, but i fail to see how the Muslim world has never heard of them, especially these Arabs.

 

[Armstrong]

Ok...alright, brothers...I'm off ! Take care and may God bless Pakistan, all the Arab Lands and the World at large !

I agree, we haven't done anything to introduce Jinnah and Iqbal to the rest of the world, but i fail to see how the Muslim world has never heard of them, especially these Arabs.

That contradicts itself...! And mate, Tariq Ramadan is an Egyptian and one of our Turkish posters on PDF was an avid fan of Iqbal...!

 

[The SC]

@Desert Fox or wannabe Marshal Rommel
So what you are telling this forum is that you are a toilet cleaner for free some where somehow.
Original Post By The SC

, I was only giving you your own advice, ie; free service for the ummah

Who asked you, we have enough volunteers.

Let me assure you that there is nothing here to be jealous of.

Why would i be jealous of your "ummah" delusions?

Talking about Canada, so detwist your twisted mind.

Ounce of what? are you a terrorist?

They weren't called terrorists than, but freedom fighters for a Muslim country in distress against communism.

 

[Desert Fox]

That contradicts itself...!

How so? You said "the rest of the world", so is the whole world Muslim?

I'm talking about Muslims. Tell me, why should we introduce a Muslim Philosopher (who is well known amongst many Western scholars and intellectuals who have studied middle eastern/Islamic history) to the Arab Muslims? Shouldn't they know already rather than us teach them?

And mate, Tariq Ramadan is an Egyptian and one of our Turkish posters on PDF was an avid fan of Iqbal...!

Of course Turks know about Iqbal since Turks are heavily influenced by Sufis. Regarding Egyptians, not many of them know, those few that do know have read or studied independently.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

How many Non-Arabs know of Iqbal and Jinnah ? Now tell me 'How many Arabs and Non-Arabs know of Gandhi ?' - So whose fault is this...? Akbar Ahmed, a celebrated Muslim Scholar and the producer and writer of the movie 'Jinnah', lamented on how we've failed miserably in introducing Jinnah or Iqbal to the rest of the world.

P.S Ever heard of Tariq Ramadan, a grandson of Hassan al Banaa - the founder of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood - he cites Iqbal as his inspiration !

What's the point of knowing them? anyway I will read about them another time inshallah. But as a start, I know that Jannah is the founder of Pakistan.

 

[Armstrong]

How so? You said "the rest of the world", so is the whole world Muslim?

I'm talking about Muslims. Tell me, why should we introduce a Muslim Philosopher (who is well known amongst many Western scholars and intellectuals who have studied middle eastern/Islamic history) to the Arab Muslims? Shouldn't they know rather than us teach them?

Of course Turks know about Iqbal since Turks are heavily influenced by Sufis. Regarding Egyptians, not many of them know, those few that do know have read or studied independently.

I see ! So the onus is on them to know Your National Poet-Philosopher and Your Founding Father ?

Alright...yaar ! Take..care - Back to 'Financial Accounting' for me !

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Indeed sir we have ! Humans have out-grown much worse forms of distinguishing one from the other 'race' probably tops the list ! Islam, as I have understood it to be, does away with all of that and instead aims to find unity in a 'common collective consciousness'; but this is not to say that we cease to exist who we are or cease to speak the languages that our fathers and their fathers before them have spoke for centuries it only means in the words of Iqbal : 'Islam is neither Nationalism nor Imperialism but a League of Nations which recognizes artificial boundaries and racial distinctions for facility of reference only, and not for restricting the social horizon of its members.' Which is to say that this unification, according to him, was possible either through a league of Muslim nations, or through a combination of several independent Muslim States tied to each other for purely economic and political considerations.

Muslims can form political & economic blocs, in fact the GCC is doing that at the moment. The thing is that even if we do follow the same religion, people find it hard to forget about their race. Even in the USA, a country that happens to be multicultural; not all people accept interracial marriages even though they share the same nationality & probably the same religion too.

I myself am very protective of our women, & would probably become extremely brutal if someone from another race chased after our women. The point however is that Islam should be used to benefit all Muslim countries, but if other people do not desire cooperation with us on the basis of Islam then we shouldn't force them too either. Instead Pakistanis should focus on themselves for now, our country isn't doing too well so it's understandable that no one else will desire to have anything to do with us.

As i said, my posts on that thread were in accordance to the topic of that thread, so i see nothing wrong with them. In fact, most of my posts on that thread were in reply to other posts posted by members.

I never said there was something wrong with your posts. I thought you meant that there was a problem with my posts. It's cool bro, forget about it, & I apologize for starting a pointless argument over the previous thread as well.

 

[batmannow]

But then again I like said I don't know much about the ways of the military.

Good. you make a lot of sense my dear dear. NOT!

So if your favorite Muslim-Ammah and Oh-I see OIC, and that eunuchs collection called Arab league, sits around sipping chai, while Muslims do chop chop chop, we got to put some responsibility, if not for chop chop, then at least one should blame this Muslim-Amma for the tasteless chai that has too much dirty water and too little sugar.

If Muslim-Amma's popa Ayatullahs from Iran, or the Muslim-Amma's Popa Mullahs from Saudi are issuing fat-fat fatwas for killing and maiming, then who should one blame? Martians?


peace,

Plz link a valid fatwa, given by any arab or iranian alims, to kill, innocent muslims , show it now, if can't! You are trying hard, to disrupte , muslim unity & you are working , with a agenda, to defame ,& dis-unite muslims, on the orders, of the allied forces, commanders?
There manyn sunnis , ahmadis & others, trying same, script , but they allways get nothing, other than, social money, in some EU & USA like countries, & that their heaven on earth, but my dear, as I said it before, no one remains over the top forever, & every day is not, sunday!
Even just let s pakistan & Iran united, I cAn give you, 1000% gurntee, united states of america & its allies, including, so-called, thier cyber soilders, will find their, graves in the lands of afghanistan & IrAq? & surly that, would be a opening, of united, educated, financaily strong , ummaha?

 

[somebozo]

Ok...alright, brothers...I'm off ! Take care and may God bless Pakistan, all the Arab Lands and the World at large !



That contradicts itself...! And mate, Tariq Ramadan is an Egyptian and one of our Turkish posters on PDF was an avid fan of Iqbal...!

Iqbal and Jinnah are well known in Turkey and there are streets named after them. The question here is do Arabs know them??? Or Jinnah and Iqbal were not muslim enough?? Especially when some here vehemently defend Khalid Bin Walid and Mohammed Bin Qasim as Muslim hero then Jinnah and Iqbal were no less Muslim heros as their idealogy and hard work gave liberty to 180 million Muslims..the question here is strictly "Muslim" for those who tend to defend!

 

[Armstrong]

What's the point of knowing them? anyway I will read about them another time inshallah. But as a start, I know that Jannah is the founder of Pakistan.

Think of this way - I rank Jinnah equal to Umar bin Khattab and Iqbal equal to some of the best intellectual minds that the Muslim world has ever produced !

Khair...take care ! I'm off !

 

[Desert Fox]

@Desert Fox or wannabe Marshal Rommel

What mr wannabe ninja , you're not that stealthy of a ninja.

So what you are telling this forum is that you are a toilet cleaner for free some where somehow.

I was only giving you your own advice, ie; free service for the ummah.

Who asked you, we have enough volunteers.

So you are not going to join them on the toilet cleaning quest?

Talking about Canada, so detwist your twisted mind.

So you are saying i'm jealous of you living in Canada? Lolz, not at all, why should i be jealous? I just find it hysterical that you are dreaming of "ummah" while living in a non-Muslim country.

They weren't called terrorists than, but freedom fighters for a Muslim country in distress against communism.

Yeah right, those same freedom fighters are now bl()wing up their own Muslims in the middle east. So much for "freedom fighting".

What's the point of knowing them?

They did more for Islam and its spread than you will ever do in your entire lifetime.

I never said there was something wrong with your posts. I thought you meant that there was a problem with my posts. It's cool bro, forget about it, & I apologize for starting a pointless argument over the previous thread as well.

Not at all bro, i never said you were wrong, but yeah lets just forget about it.