Time to abandon Ummah / brotherhood for greater good of the nation?

[BLACKEAGLE]

On the different thread the other day you were arguing way different...good to see common sense is finally touching you..On funny thing..when arabs boycotted egypt for signing peace deal with Israel - it was Pakistan which moved in to mediate and during the boycott time Egyptian documents were attested by Pakistani embassy in Saudi Arabia.

Funny thing, the same arabs who talk about unity also talk about funding insurgents and terrorist in a fellow arab country and gives ground access to NATO to bomb another fellow Arab country.

All the major conflict in Islam, that is Sunni, Shia and Khawarij has its roots in Arab tribal life style which depends on sword more than brain..yet these conflicts have been exported in the name of Islam and now people in complete unrelated countries are settling scores by killing each other...

Now, you are talking crap, we freed Libyans from Qaddafi, and we are willing to free Syrians from Bashar. It was against the regime not people. 50000 Libyans have come to Jordan for medical treatments, and 14000 for military and police training. We have the best relations with Libyans. There are about 65000 Syrian refugees in Jordan and we are happy to share food and work with them.

 

[IbnAlwaled]

we re not begging for flood recovery aid..as I have already mentioned in the above response which you seem to have hard time understanding. Much of this flood ad is used as a PR campaign by donators be it what ever country around the world. We need funds to build rehabilitation institutions to cure the extremist menace eating our society from inside....tell me who is funding that for us?? much of the funding in that regards is flowing from no one else but United States of American...

Aid at the times of natural disasters is very easy exploitation to win positive PR..and this seems to be happening very well in Pakistan...these disasters only happen once in a while..but we have been in dire need of funding since the sh_t hit the fan in 2001 to rehabilitate thousands of Pakistani and Afghani people suffering from jihadi brainwashing led by no other than OBL...

money also flowed like water during Afghan-Soviet "Jihad" but nothing came afterward to rebuild the institutions and social structure but some madrasas were kept well funded...another point to be noted.

Why do you keep mentioning Saudi Arabia, baring few individuals Saudi government atleast has been very good ally of our military and government but Saudi Arabia alone does not represent the entire Muslim and Arab world...

Surprised by the level of intellect some people have on this forum...

So, your not begging for food, just begging for money?
Leave me a message when we waste any more money on you.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

The problem is the moment we talk about our own unity or geopolitical interests, they bring the Ummah card out to play.....so its ummah when it serves them and nationalism when it serves them... a trait common among progressive Islamic countries is that they tend to ignore the capitals of middle east in their political suggestion where as we are erasing our heritage and constituting a firm believe in Allah, Prophet, Arabs doctrine...

I have no problem with the "true" idea of Islamic unity, that is Muslims should help & look after each other, love & respect each other, etc. However the "common" Pakistani's concept of Islamic unity is what I find really odd; they don't value things such as language & culture at all. Look at what has happened to our national language Urdu, I am sure it will be considered a dialect of English at some point in the future. Maybe it's because many people in our society are too sentimental or gullible so they don't think for themselves, this is of course the end result of a culture that doesn't encourage critical thinking & tolerance. Islam isn't the problem here, it's the people & their misconceptions of religion along with their resistance to change.

 

[IbnAlwaled]

On the different thread the other day you were arguing way different...good to see common sense is finally touching you..On funny thing..when arabs boycotted egypt for signing peace deal with Israel - it was Pakistan which moved in to mediate and during the boycott time Egyptian documents were attested by Pakistani embassy in Saudi Arabia.

Funny thing, the same arabs who talk about unity also talk about funding insurgents and terrorist in a fellow arab country and gives ground access to NATO to bomb another fellow Arab country.

All the major conflict in Islam, that is Sunni, Shia and Khawarij has its roots in Arab tribal life style which depends on sword more than brain..yet these conflicts have been exported in the name of Islam and now people in complete unrelated countries are settling scores by killing each other...

Yet we hear every week about the suicide bombings in Pakistan and Afghanistan between the two sects.

 

[somebozo]

Yet we hear every week about the suicide bombings in Pakistan and Afghanistan between the two sects.

Iranian- Saudi war spills over to Pakistan

Who were the most active missionaries in Afghanistan during the Taliban rule?

Saudi, Qatari,Kuwaiti & Iranians

When I say break away from brother hood - it also means breaking away from Arab, Iranian, Sunni and Shia point of views and causes. So you are not alone on my radar... don't take it as a targeting....

 

[IbnAlwaled]

Iranian- Saudi war spills over to Pakistan

Classic Pakistani mentality. Blame others...

 

[FaujHistorian]

Valenzuela and other non-Muslim countries don't have relations with Israel

Forget about Venezuela. Tell us about your own country, or Egypt the countries who are next door and they get directly impacted by Israeli policies.

Care to explain that?


peace

 

[somebozo]

Forget about Venezuela. Tell us about your own country, or Egypt the countries who are next door and they get directly impacted by Israeli policies.

Care to explain that?


peace

He cant because his own king ran with his tail between legs to sign peace accord with Israel....

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Forget about Venezuela. Tell us about your own country, or Egypt the countries who are next door and they get directly impacted by Israeli policies.

Care to explain that?


peace

I have explained that many times brother, now it's not the right time nor thread let it be another time plz.

 

[The SC]

To abandon something, you assume that there is something to abandon.
Don't wanna blow anyone's bubble but there never was such a thing as 'Ummah'.
It is just a dream.

Sorry for disturbing the discussion here. I am gone!!!

No, no, please don't go away !

The Muslim Ummah will prevail.

 

[somebozo]

Classic Pakistani mentality. Blame others...

We learn from the best...after all you have been doing it for the last 60+ years!

Saudi Arabia blames Iran for Shiite riots | Al Bawaba

Bahraini minister blames Shiite party, Iran for troubles

Syria blames Qatar & Saudi Arabia for bloodshed, Israel crosses the Suez Canal and more 3/12 & 13SHOWDOWN IN THE MIDDLE EAST

Bahrain Regime Blames US and Unnamed Gulf State for Unrest - International Business Times

Bahrain

MIDEAST - Bahrain

Eugene Register-Guard - Google News Archive Search

Kuwait blames Iran of spy attacks

PLO blames Israel for 'failure' of Amman talks | Kuwait E-Gate NewsFeed

Arabs love to blame Israel | Reporting on the Middle East, Science, and Education

WikiLeaks cables: You can't blame Israel for mistrusting Arabs, says Qatari ruler
Israel deserves credit for seeking peace in the face of resurgent Hamas and Hezbollah, Emir Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani tells U.S. senator, according to classified dispatch.

WikiLeaks cables: You can't blame Israel for mistrusting Arabs, says Qatari ruler - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

 

[Armstrong]

I have no problem with the "true" idea of Islamic unity, that is Muslims should help & look after each other, love & respect each other, etc. However the "common" Pakistani's concept of Islamic unity is what I find really odd; they don't value things such as language & culture at all. Look at what has happened to our national language Urdu, I am sure it will be considered a dialect of English at some point in the future. Maybe it's because many people in our society are too sentimental or gullible so they don't think for themselves, this is of course the end result of a culture that doesn't encourage critical thinking & tolerance. Islam isn't the problem here, it's the people & their misconceptions of religion along with their resistance to change.

Nope..if anything its us Punjabis who don't do that ! The ethnic Punjabis who grew up alongside me speak Urdu as their mother instead of Punjabi..heck I can't speak very good Punjabi either but the same cannot be said about the Pukhtoons, the Baloch, the Sindhis and numerous other ethnicities - they value their language and their culture !

I said this before and I still stick to it - Forget the Ummah because that concept of Muslim Unity, however much idyllic it maybe, is better left to a more mature generation who rises above these petty differences and perhaps manages to pull of the Islamic equivalent of NATO, EU and the sort ! Having said that some amount of 'Pan-Islamism' is intrinsically linked to the idea of 'Pakistan' because I as a Punjabi-Kashmiri have very little in common with a Baloch or a Pukhtoon with their culture, traditions, values, language and even history being pretty different from my own and vice versa for them....so the concept of 'hey we're Muslims and so we're One' is inseparable from Pakistan in many ways but I do concede that Pakistan does a little too much chest thumping for the Ummah then is advisable for a country having our kind of problems !

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

He cant because his own king ran with his tail between legs to sign peace accord with Israel....

Loool, and why is this? now you are getting mad, calm down.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Ibnwaled: Blame others?

I assume your Saudi? The day the oil runs out my friend your going to sink back into the sand fast.
Your a country which spends billions on defence but the first real threat arose and you went crying to the Americans for help.
Your country that sponsors the most reactionery Salafi brand of Islam that has caused havoc across the world. Your petrodollars fuel our virulent Mullahs. Your a country that looks on the killing abnd genocide of other Arabs in Palestine by Isreali's, yet you reserve your hatred for Iran.

You throw all your trouble causers to rest of the world Bin Laden et al.
So blame others? No. Blame the Saudi's. YES

And how does a country of 20 million plus end up with the name of one family? Absurd. Do the Saud's own Arabia? Just curious.

 

[somebozo]

I said this before and I still stick to it - Forget the Ummah because that concept of Muslim Unity, however much idyllic it maybe, is better left to a more mature generation who rises above these petty differences and perhaps manages to pull of the Islamic equivalent of NATO, EU and the sort ! Having said that some amount of 'Pan-Islamism' is intrinsically linked to the idea of 'Pakistan' because I as a Punjabi-Kashmiri have very little in common with a Baloch or a Pukhtoon with their culture, traditions, values, language and even history is pretty different from my own and vice versa for them....so the concept of 'hey we're Muslims and so we're One body' is what brings us closer and lets a Pukhtoon embrace a Punjabi as his fellow brother !

this is called multi-cultrism and is part of values of any modrern country today..America and Canda are even made up largely on immigrants...nothing to do with Ummah and Islam here...infact if pan-islamism is the binding factor then what about the hindu, christian, sikh and other non Muslim minorities???

What is the binding factor for them?? Pan-hindusism or Pan-Christianism?? Doesnt make sense...

Loool, and why is this? now you are getting mad, calm down.

isnt this true??


The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994, at the southern border crossing of Wadi ‘Araba. The treaty guaranteed Jordan the restoration of its occupied land (approximately 380 square kilometers), as well as an equitable share of water from the Yarmouk and Jordan rivers. Moreover, the treaty defined Jordan’s western borders clearly and conclusively for the first time, putting an end to the dangerous and false Zionist claim that “Jordan is Palestine.”


Egyptian president Anwar Sadat and Syrian president Hafez al-Assad met King Hussein in 1973 to discuss the possibility of war. Hussein, fearing another loss of territory to Israel, declined. Furthermore, Hussein was suspicious of Sadat's promise to PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat to hand over the West Bank to the Palestinians in the event of a victory, as he considered the West Bank to be Jordanian territory. On the night of 25 September, Hussein secretly flew to Tel Aviv to warn Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir of an impending Syrian attack. "Are (the Syrians) going to war without the Egyptians, asked Mrs. Meir. The king said he didn't think so. 'I think they [Egypt] would cooperate'".[11]

^ Rabinovich, The Yom Kippur War, Schocken Books, 2004. Page 50