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The word 'Bharati'

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After having read through the entire thread and having contributed to the discussion, I am still at a loss as to why the term Bharti is perceived as an insult by some members.

Yes, the usage of this term is not pervalent in Bharat today, yet even the word Bharat is itself not that widely used anymore, as opposed to Hindustan/India.

It's offensive nature has not been established, all that has been furnished are certain ambiguous references to some poster's 'intent', or an insult to the testosterone levels of male Bharatiyas who are loath to be given a common girl's name.

Our Bharti friends must understand the different dialects of the Urdu/Hindustani/Hindi languages. A chookri, bansuri, beti is also pronounced chokariya, bansuriya, bitiya...the same as Bharti is also pronounced Bharatiya....These are all nuances of the wonderful Hindustani languages of Hindi/Urdu, and just because the use of the word Bharti is not pervalent in Bharat anymore, doesn't mean it has somehow become offensive.

BTW, India is also a girl's given name in the west, so should we find another name for INdia too?

Well, India/Bharati being a girl's name should not be a problem. Most of the countries in the world are addressed using feminine pronouns, like India, China, Pakistan, USA etc.
 
Jeypore...You will have to submit to Screaming Skull...come on! its a skull...and a screaming one...scares the hell out of me:undecided:

I am a great fan of Bush you know....the leader of all 'Bone Heads':rofl:

BTW till recently I was looking for a good Bush photo to set as my avtar.:pop:
 
Darkstar, it seems to me that you are unwilling to understand.

Let me take another shot at this.

Why is the word "P aki" offensive? Is it something about the way those four letters are arranged that make it insulting? Not that I'm aware of. Infact, it seems like a perfectly reasonable abbreviation for Pakistani.
However, its usage over the years as a derogatory term for anyone of South Asian descent made it an insult.

Do you think that if they used the full "Pakistani" instead of "P a ki" while delivering racist insults, it would have motivated Pakistanis to change the name of their countr? I think not!

The same process has occured here. The term "Bharti" by itself may not be insulting, but its use in a negative and often derogatory manner by a number of people has made it so.

Still, I do not think the matter is worthy of 8 pages worth discussion, though I am aware that even I am contributing to this fruitless dance around the table. Nonetheless, let the examination of the Indian psyche and the Hindi language continue!

P.S. Bansuriya and Bharatiya are not to be compared please! A Bansuri in Hindi is a Bansuri in urdu. Only, Bansuriya happens to be slang. Bharatiya on the other hand, is grammatically correct, and unlike Bansuriya, it is an identifier.
 
Thats the first time i have heard calling someone "Bharati" is a insult.

Maybe the word he was intending for was '******' or '********' which our fellow forumers from 10 years ago coined for the Bhaarat vaasiaan. Interestingly enough, it seems to be born of an innocuous mash up of 'Bhaaratia' (which we call 'Bhaarati') and 'Indian', but on a sister forum has come to be used in a shall we say not-too-repectful manner.
 
pa ki is not considered as derogatory in Pakistan. Most people do not find it offensive, as they are unaawre of its offensiveness. Paaki mens purity in Urdu.

The derogatory nature of the word pa ki comes from its use in the UK, as this was a term of abuse for South Asians in the council estates of England, Scotland, etc. pa ki is almost considered a swear word in the UK, and politically incorrect to use it.

On the other hand, when I was in the USA, many American described things of Pakistani origin to be Pa ki, and I did not find fault with their use of the word, nor any offense in it.

It is quite ironic, that Pakistanis are abused with a word that actually has a good meaning in their native tongue.

In all my life, I have never heard the word Bharti been used as an insult. However, if someone dislikes INdians, then even the term INdian can be derogatory, as can the term Irish.

You again claim that a number of shadowy posters used the term in a 'negative and often derogatory manner', but you fail to realise that if the intention is negative and derogatory, the word Indian would also suffice.

To some the word 'Indian', 'Pakistani', 'Irish', 'American' is nothing other than a gaali. Just because a certain person is prejudiced, and uses a word in a negative tone or manner, doesn't make the word unusable for others.

I have tried to explain that Bharti is the proper urdu word for someone 'of Bharat', just as Irani, Amreeki, Ruusi, Arbi, Aljizairi, Falasteeni, Burmi, Cheeni, Punjabi, Kashmiri, Hindustani, Gujrati, Sindhi, Assami, Bengali, Amritsari, Dehlwi, Bhopali, Hyderabadi, Keralwi, Brelwi, Deobandi, Kohlhapuri, the list is endless. Why should urdu speakers make an exception with Bharat and Bharatiya? The word does not correspond with regular urdu grammar and usage. Bharati/Bharti is the proper word in the Urdu language, as evidenced by countless examples.
 
No Darkstar, the word Indian or Bharatiya cannot be an insult, no matter how negatively they are used, just like the word Pakistani can never be an insult for a Pakistani even though a lot of Indians may use it that way.

It is the purposeful use of an incorrect term ( or a perceived incorrect term) that makes it an insult. The word substitution is the thing, along with the negative connotation.
 
WE seem to be going in circles. I suggest that everyone read the entire thread before phrasing questions that have been answered conclusively.
 
Well, why we are making it look so difficult?

Shouldn't it be Indians' choice that what should be (and shouldn't be) they called? I think it's more important than what the Urdu grammar says.

What will you feel, if I come up with a theory that in some Indian regional language, Pak! means Pakistani?

So, we should cut that crap, and call Indians what they want to be called. Same goes for every other member. As simple as that.
 
Well, why we are making it look so difficult?

Shouldn't it be Indians' choice that what should be (and shouldn't be) they called? I think it's more important than what the Urdu grammar says.

What will you feel, if I come up with a theory that in some Indian regional language, Pak! means Pakistani?

So, we should cut that crap, and call Indians what they want to be called. Same goes for every other member. As simple as that.

That's insane..

I live in Belgium. The french calli t Belgique...The flemish Belgie...The germans Belgien...the English Belgium...

England is variously called Vilayat, Inglistan in Urdu/Hindi..and English Angrezi, an Englishman Angrez...now we need to ask the english people before using the words of our own language?

Germany is called Almaniya in urdu, Deutschland in the German language, Germany in English, Duitsland in Dutch...all nations should first ask the permission of Germans before using the respective terms in their language?

What a ludicrous suggestion.

Mera joota hay japani, yeh patloon inglistani

Sar pay laal topi ruusi...phir bhil dil hay.....


The lyricist should have contacted all the relevant embassies before penning this song...

The word Bharti is not a theory, it is a word of the Urdu language, like other words that I have presented. I have given proofs of the usage of the word Bharti in Indian schools and institutions, even in a major company Bharti Air Tel. Yet you are adamant at finding offense where none exists.

"Cut the crap"? Indeed.
 
I never knew Germany was called Almaniya in urdu.:cheers:
 

Respected Indian brothers!!!

in english to urdu dictionary

word Indian translation is
(hindustani)ہندوستانی (bharati)بھارتی(hindi)۔ ہندی


no hatred at all​
 
That's insane..

I live in Belgium. The french calli t Belgique...The flemish Belgie...The germans Belgien...the English Belgium...

England is variously called Vilayat, Inglistan in Urdu/Hindi..and English Angrezi, an Englishman Angrez...now we need to ask the english people before using the words of our own language?

Germany is called Almaniya in urdu, Deutschland in the German language, Germany in English, Duitsland in Dutch...all nations should first ask the permission of Germans before using the respective terms in their language?

What a ludicrous suggestion.

Mera joota hay japani, yeh patloon inglistani

Sar pay laal topi ruusi...phir bhil dil hay.....


The lyricist should have contacted all the relevant embassies before penning this song...

The word Bharti is not a theory, it is a word of the Urdu language, like other words that I have presented. I have given proofs of the usage of the word Bharti in Indian schools and institutions, even in a major company Bharti Air Tel. Yet you are adamant at finding offense where none exists.

"Cut the crap"? Indeed.

And again you drew the worst possible inference.

You call a Britisher "Angrez". Alright. But, you don't address him like this, on his face.

I mean, you won't call UK "vilayat" when talking to an English man. Same goes for EACH ONE of your long list.

So, you may call whatever you want (without being offensive) when you are discussing only among Pakistanis. But, as there are Indians on this forum, I think they should be given the priority in this case.

P.S. - It is grammatically correct Pakistani citizen "Pak!" in Marathi. Should I be using the word?
 
Thread started on a lighter note and snowballed into a lenghty discussion panning 8 pages.. OMG...!!!! I agree with many members here, i dont consider bharti a deogratory word.. even though it sounds funny..!!! "Indians" would be just fine guys...if typing barathiya takes time.. ;)
 
And again you drew the worst possible inference.

You call a Britisher "Angrez". Alright. But, you don't address him like this, on his face.

I mean, you won't call UK "vilayat" when talking to an English man. Same goes for EACH ONE of your long list.

So, you may call whatever you want (without being offensive) when you are discussing only among Pakistanis. But, as there are Indians on this forum, I think they should be given the priority in this case.

P.S. - It is grammatically correct Pakistani citizen "Pak!" in Marathi. Should I be using the word?
I would call a Brit, Angrez on his face, while talking in Urdu.

For all purposes in English, the term remains Indian, not Bhaarti, not Bhaartiya. But Bhaarti is an official word of a language of India! And it cannot be construed as racist or derogatory like ****. **** is not the word for nationality of the people of Pakistan in English, Hindi or Urdu. All three use Pakistani.

Arabs call us Bakistani, should we take offense on that? No, its the official word. They call Indians, Hindi. Why don't you go around correcting them? India is call Al Hind! The Urdu dictionary is not about to change on our whims.

Bhaarti and Bharatiya are both correct, just in different languages of India! People are not arguing here for the right to use the word Bhaarti, we're gonna stick to Indian. But to insinuate that it means something other than that, is outrageous.
 
P.S. - It is grammatically correct Pakistani citizen "Pak!" in Marathi. Should I be using the word?

First of all u are suppose to take the country and put an "i" in front of it so its pakistani.

Secondly Pa ki is used for indians more than pakistani.

Thirdly i do not find it offensive, i only been called it once, and it was my own fault. My best friend asked me wt should i call u since u r from pakistan, and i told him "****" lol.

Fourth, since we are urdu speaking, it is okay for us to use the word bhaarti, to us it sounds better then using bhartiya. "bhartiya" does not sound right when u pronounce it, i hope u get what i mean.
 
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