"The Japanese see India as the land of Lord Buddha ,which is why they have a lot of respect for Indians"

[Joe Shearer]

Please continue if you have time, and I would strongly suggest you, sir, to open a separate thread, and copy over your post there as well.

Frankly speaking, this is kind of hard for me to understand, there are too many new words, and concepts in this story. I am lack of the knowledge on this matter.

I am a little afraid of opening a thread on a theme as ambiguous as the Buddha and his life and teachings. I hope you will tolerate my putting the rest of my narrative here itself.

From the background mentioned in the earlier post, we saw that a hybrid had grown that mingled what was brought along with the steppe migrants with what they might have discovered to be local custom. The only way we know that there was a mingling of some sort is by noting the differences between the Rg Veda and the subsequent compositions. It is time to see what was the doctrinal core of the Sanatan Dharma (the correct name for what people claim to be Hinduism).

A few days ago, a Sikh friend of mine asked what was the core of Sanatan Dharma, but without the philosophical overgrowth. This is how I replied:

[12:23 AM, 4/27/2022] Joe: In the starkest possible terms, it is that the universe is governed by Dharma, that overarches all else, including the acts of the governing gods. This is religious and moral law, but it is not written down anywhere.
[12:25 AM, 4/27/2022] Joe: We should, as pious individuals, live according to Dharma. That is made difficult because of the effects of Maya.
[12:39 AM, 4/27/2022] Joe: Maya, or illusion, was the divine power to make mere humans believe in the unreal. It later became a hi-fi concept that went out of the hands of the gods and became an abstract force of nature that led to deception.
[12:41 AM, 4/27/2022] Joe: So here we were, trying to do the right thing, and lead good lives, but unable to do it because we were misled. By nature.
[12:43 AM, 4/27/2022] Joe: That made the resolution very simple. It was to ask for pardon and relief from those superior beings entitled to dispense these. The gods.

You will notice that the caste system does not deserve mention, even accidentally.

That is because in those early stages of social development, it was nowhere as inflexible and as oppressive as it later became. It was not until around the period 400 CE to 800 CE that various castes crystallised into inflexible groups that would (on the face of it) not be moved by any social change or political change.

So what did the Buddha revolt against?

 

[Wergeland]

I am a little surprised at your putting the Buddha into Magadha.

Kapilavastu was in Kosala, not in Magadha.

Another fact that you might have overlooked is that when Gautama first went into the forest, he met the King Bimbisara, King of Magadha. After conversing with this stranger, and learning that he had been born a prince, Bimbisara asked him to join the king and rule Magadha. That should make it clear that Gautama did not belong to Magadha.

Buddha at best was living in the area on the easternmost edges of Kosala, which itself was a Ayodya centered Kingdom. Magadha later absorbed Kosala. The eastern parts of Kosala was under the Magadha realm of cultural influence.

 

[nahtanbob]

Bangla existed or not? there goes Bangladeshi history
Ceylon existed right- are people of Ceylon still carrying the same blood that ancient ones were carrying?- so how does "India" get the right to claim it over native people

that's the hegemonic crap yall pull that we in rest of south asia hate - everything is yours because you named yourselves India
you are an older gentleman so I won't post a meme on it but it genuinely encapsulates Indians living in Ganga, south India, northeast or some other places stealing the history of the rest of South Asia under the "banner" of "India"

Vietnamese history does not become Chinese history or Mongolian history- why is it that only in South Asia does everything that ever happened become the history of the modern nation-state of India? What's up with this hegemonic worldview?

Indus Valley civilization is an extinct civilization that no one can comprehend. Nobody can decipher its script. Nobody knows what/how it ended. It is hard to claim ownership to something anyone can hardily comprehend

 

[Joe Shearer]

Buddha at best was living in the area on the easternmost edges of Kosala, which itself was a Ayodya centered Kingdom. Magadha later absorbed Kosala. The eastern parts of Kosala was under the Magadha realm of cultural influence.

True. You were also right in tracing most modern Indian languages in eastern India to Magadhi Prakrit

 

[Wergeland]

True. You were also right in tracing most modern Indian languages in eastern India to Magadhi Prakrit

Dada i dont understand you guys over the border. You guys were the center and powerhouse of our nation and further northern subcontinent. Now you guys are relegated to a tier 2 province.

What is going on!??
Not trying to troll. Just cant get my head around it. Why be controlled by Delhi when we as one nation would be something majestic.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Eh what ! You are sounding like our nationalist Turkish friend @MMM-E who believes all advanced civilizations across the world spread from the Turkish people.

Some people were ahead of others. It's just a fact. For example, Sumeria was first to develop writing. Human beings are not like crops growing simultaneously.

 

[MultaniGuy]

No, you aren't, and thank you for your very polite refusal.

I know Jamahir personally, and know both that he is an Indian (from a different city) and a Muslim.

There are four Muslim Indians that I personally know about (not know personally) who are members of this forum.

Personal anecdotes mean nothing when hard evidence or logic is required.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dada i dont understand you guys over the border. You guys were the center and powerhouse of our nation and further northern subcontinent. Now you guys are relegated to a tier 2 province.

What is going on!??
Not trying to troll. Just cant get my head around it. Why be controlled by Delhi when we as one nation would be something majestic.

Do you know what was planned between Sarat Bose, Kiran Shankar Ray and Suhrawardy? That drove Jinnah Sahib to say in frustration, 'Do what you want'?

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

oppressive socio-economic, social and political caste system

There was no prison in the original Vedic ruling system. So how was it oppressive? You mistake other peoples ideological oppression, corruption, and tyranny with the original. Communism is very oppressive which is the reason most countries abandoned it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Indus Valley civilization is an extinct civilization that no one can comprehend. Nobody can decipher its script. Nobody knows what/how it ended. It is hard to claim ownership to something anyone can hardily comprehend

Out of the mouths of babes.......

 

[Joe Shearer]

There was no prison in the original Vedic ruling system. So how was it oppressive? You mistake other peoples ideological oppression, corruption, and tyranny with the original. Communism is very oppressive which is the reason most countries abandoned it.

No. The caste system was a later interpolation. A back-history creation by would-be social engineers who had no social responsibility.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Indus Valley civilization is an extinct civilization that no one can comprehend. Nobody can decipher its script. Nobody knows what/how it ended. It is hard to claim ownership to something anyone can hardily comprehend

And that's why it's Indian and has nothing to do with native tribes still living their
Btw you read the post it didn't mention of ivc- afaik it's Ceylon and bangal

I don't know why did you bring that up?

 

[Joe Shearer]

And that's why it's Indian and has nothing to do with native tribes still living their

When did you and I or anybody else agree with a few revisionists?

 

[Maula Jatt]

When did you and I or anybody else agree with a few revisionists?

Since someone in south India (or anyother part)started saying we Indians blah blah blah for things that happened 1000s of miles away

That's not revisionism

 

[jamahir]

Are you saying that he is an Indian who is not firm in his faith as a Muslim, or does not know all that he should, or are you saying that he is an Indian, but is not a Muslim?

He is among four crooks who won't debate me on Quranic verses yet consider themselves adherent Muslims. They are just ritualists mouthing some words and doing some poses who are Muslims because their family is and their local society is, not because they have understood the philosophy. If I didn't know Islam well and was living 1000 years ago in India and came to know about something called Islam by the words and deeds of these four Talibanic gentlemen I would have immediately rejected Islam.

Personal anecdotes mean nothing when hard evidence or logic is required.

One "hard evidence and logic" is my thousands of posts on PDF since 2014 when I joined. Another is Joe telling you that he knows me personally. Unless I am playing out a very elaborate conspiracy.

Some people were ahead of others. It's just a fact. For example, Sumeria was first to develop writing. Human beings are not like crops growing simultaneously.

I agree that Sumeria / Iraq / etc was advanced and I do believe that the Indus Valley Civilization was peopled by those originally from the Iraq region.

Communism is very oppressive which is the reason most countries abandoned it.

Below is the simply described Google result for "Communism" :

Communism is a philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common or social ownership of all property and the absence of social classes, money, and the state. Wikipedia

Going further I will quote a section from part 2 of Muammar Gaddafi's Green Book with the section continuing the desire of Communism about money :

The final step is for the new socialist society to reach a stage in which profit and money disappear. Society will become fully productive; the material needs of society will be met. In this final stage, profit will disappear, as will the need for money.

The recognition of profit is an acknowledgment of exploitation, for profit has no limit. Attempts so far to limit profit by various means have been reformative, not radical, intending to prohibit exploitation of man by man. The final solution lies in eradicating profit, but because profit is the dynamic force behind the economic process, eliminating profit is not a matter of decree but, rather, an outcome of the evolving socialist process. This solution can be attained when the material satisfaction of the needs of society and its members is achieved. Work to increase profit will itself lead to its final eradication.

Where do you find oppression in these wonderful, idealism-filled bunch of thoughts ? Aren't they worth spending years of your life in bringing about societies that use these thoughts as their systems ? Think for example why the Japanese Red Army agitated. If you think most countries abandoned Communism what have they replaced it with ? Please read this post of mine on what true democracy is, what is not, the origin of democracy and where it was implemented in the modern world.