The Debt we owe the Army & PAF

[PurpleButcher]

One should consider it a favor when the military does the job what it is paid for-

My brother here lies the difference of opinion. i do not consider it a favor. Do you consider a govt. teacher going to his job a favour or a duty? Do you consider a janitor going to his job a favour? That is what they are paid for. Yes there job is tough, its risky and they deserve respect for laying down their lives but its no means a favour but a very respectable job.

You never put down your warriors

Questioning them about their irrational decisions in not equivalent to putting them down. Rather it is a grave matter as to why some soldiers had to lay down their lives in the first place for the irrational decision of an army general . When the general takes a decision to fight a war in kargil without taking orders from his theoretical boss, who is responsible for the death of our brave and beloved jawans? enemy bullets or the general?

If only our army had been questioned after 65's operation in Kashmir and the guilty had been dealt with we wont't have seen many wars!!

this is my viewpoint and hope we can have a healthy discussion. I also wrote in post 2 of this thread that i respect my jawans but the decision makers must be answerable for their decisions especially when they take the decisions beyond their authority.

 

[VCheng]

the Taliban was created by the interior minister of B/Bhutto....surprise, surprise.

But it is no surprise that the Army is never to be blamed, right?

 

[VCheng]

Hi,

One should never ask the military to make justification of their actions on a public forum---like tv---radio---news paper.One should consider it a favor when the military does the job what it is paid for----ask the people of Iraq----and see what the paid military does----or the afghan military.

You never put down your warriors---they may have gone astray----but they are not beyond redemption---. They still stand tall and salute the flag and lay down their lives for it as well without asking a question.

Now that is 100% pure unadulterated Grade A patriotic bullshit, that is totally dishonest. A warrior is as a warrior does. At the border he is great. Inside the government, he is definitely not!

 

[VCheng]

1860 USA.

just remember.

So can Pakistan survive a civil war in the 21st century?

 

[SQ8]

But it is no surprise that the Army is never to be blamed, right?

Would it appease you if it were? What if today everyone blamed the army , recognized all its mistakes and essentially threw them all into the ground. What would be your point where you would say.. "Im happy"? Perhaps that may be a solution.. So where is the solution baba ji?

 

[VCheng]

Would it appease you if it were? What if today everyone blamed the army , recognized all its mistakes and essentially threw them all into the ground. What would be your point where you would say.. "Im happy"? Perhaps that may be a solution.. So where is the solution baba ji?

You are assuming that a solution exists.

 

[SQ8]

You are assuming that a solution exists.

So then you are suggesting that there is no solution and Pakistan is doomed. Which then brings the next question? Why bother to give suggestions.. why should I bother then either?

 

[PurpleButcher]

Would it appease you if it were? What if today everyone blamed the army , recognized all its mistakes and essentially threw them all into the ground. What would be your point where you would say.. "Im happy"? Perhaps that may be a solution.. So where is the solution baba ji?

Well if all the generals of the past who have acted beyond their authorities and have caused the deaths of jawans or civilians are thrown into the ground YES I WILL BE HAPPY. for it will be an example for all those future wanna be dictators, this action would save the lives of common men from the decisions of future wanna be dictators and will be a step towards assuring that no matter how powerful you think you are, law of the land is the most powerful.

AND YES THIS IS A PART OF THE SOLUTION. TO CREATE EXAMPLES OUT OF THE CORRUPT

PS:- Kindly study turkish politics of the last decade.

 

[SQ8]

Well if all the generals of the past who have acted beyond their authorities and have caused the deaths of jawans or civilians are thrown into the ground YES I WILL BE HAPPY. for it will be an example for all those future wanna be dictators, this action would save the lives of common men from the decisions of future wanna be dictators and will be a step towards assuring that no matter how powerful you think you are, law of the land is the most powerful.

AND YES THIS IS A PART OF THE SOLUTION. TO CREATE EXAMPLES OUT OF THE CORRUPT

PS:- Kindly study turkish politics of the last decade.

So you suggest that there is a solution...which means that you hold interest in a future for Pakistan and Pakistanis.
@Syed.Ali.Haider seems to suggest that there is no solution and Pakistanis are doomed, so then why bother at all is my question. There has to be reason to offer suggestions for improvements.

 

[VCheng]

So then you are suggesting that there is no solution and Pakistan is doomed. Which then brings the next question? Why bother to give suggestions.. why should I bother then either?

You and I can give suggestions until we are blue in the face. Heck, even those who make the decisions know what to do. But there is simply no evidence to suggest that they will do anything remotely sensible. For example:

New thinking in the Army to make peace with India? Nope. Tackling circular debt rather than bringing new powerplants on line? Nope. And the list goes on and on.

 

[Developereo]

New thinking in the Army to make peace with India? Nope.

What makes you think that India wants to make peace?
Because their propaganda machine says so?

It is possible that the Indian establishment finds it useful to maintain friction with Pakistan for a whole host of reasons, both domestic and international? Surely you don't take the Indian establishment at their word any more than we would any other country?

 

[SQ8]

You and I can give suggestions until we are blue in the face. Heck, even those who make the decisions know what to do. But there is simply no evidence to suggest that they will do anything remotely sensible. For example:

New thinking in the Army to make peace with India? Nope. Tackling circular debt rather than bringing new powerplants on line? Nope. And the list goes on and on.

So then , why give suggestions.. or why repeat the song of doom then?
You see it confounds me, if you think there is no hope.. or for that matter if I did.. I would not come back here to repeat "All is doomed" especially if I have zero stake in the matter now unless I am sadistic or I secretly believe that I am lying and that there is hope.

 

[VCheng]

So then , why give suggestions.. or why repeat the song of doom then?
You see it confounds me, if you think there is no hope.. or for that matter if I did.. I would not come back here to repeat "All is doomed" especially if I have zero stake in the matter now unless I am sadistic or I secretly believe that I am lying and that there is hope.

Please allow me to explain:

"All is doomed" is a gross oversimplification. But it is also clear that the situation is dire, and worsening, and if corrective steps are not taken, then of course the end will not be pretty at all. Further, such corrective steps as are needed need not happen all at once either. But, there has to be some tangible evidence that these steps are beginning to be taken, not just claims of them being taken.

Any situation, as bad as it can be, can always be corrected. But, if it is not corrected, it will go from bad to worse, not matter how noble the claims.

 

[Donatello]

You and I can give suggestions until we are blue in the face. Heck, even those who make the decisions know what to do. But there is simply no evidence to suggest that they will do anything remotely sensible. For example:

New thinking in the Army to make peace with India? Nope. Tackling circular debt rather than bringing new powerplants on line? Nope. And the list goes on and on.

Sometimes i believe that you really don't think your posts through.....and just keep parroting a robotic algorithm.

Circular debt will be there whether there are new plants or not. Except that, even if circular debt was retired today and it didn't prop up, you would still need more plants.

 

[VCheng]

What makes you think that India wants to make peace?
Because their propaganda machine says so?

It is possible that the Indian establishment finds it useful to maintain friction with Pakistan for a whole host of reasons, both domestic and international? Surely you don't take the Indian establishment at their word any more than we would any other country?

It takes two to tango. Both countries will benefit hugely from peace.