The Debt we owe the Army & PAF

[My-Analogous]

Right. First it cuts off the legs of civilian power, and then blames it for falling down.

When Pakistan have civilian power? This is new to me and i only saw dynastic power in Pakistan. CIVILIAN POWER WHENWHERE

 

[VCheng]

When Pakistan have civilian power? This is new to me and i only saw dynastic power in Pakistan. CIVILIAN POWER WHENWHERE

It was only beginning to develop in the 50s, before it was destroyed.

 

[My-Analogous]

It was only beginning to develop in the 50s, before it was destroyed.

So it was my father childhood time

 

[VCheng]

So it was my father childhood time

It was a long time ago. During the military rule in the 60s, the conditions that led to the break up of the country in 1971 were laid. After giving up the right to internationalize Kashmir, the nation got its disgraced Army PoWs back, only to have its Army usurp power just a few years later. Then the Army led the country into the jihad in Afghanistan, followed by the disastrous experiments of the 90s and the tragic decisions after 9/11, leading up to today.

 

[Jayanta]

the army also owes its debt to the the bloody civilians for

> 4 martial laws
> bangladesh
> baluchistan situation
> jihadi element of our society
> sectarianism
> mqm
> Kalashnikov culture
> religious intolerance
> triabl area's unrest
> casuing democracy not to flourish
> war on terror spilling into Pakistan'
> for all the bomb blasts whose material came in Pakistan by crossing the borders under the watchful eyes of our army
> kargil deaths
> siachien

> so on so forth

PS:- i respect the jawans but not the decision makers of our proud army. before we move on the army must apologize to the nation

LOL never seen anyone put it so blatantly.....although I think for sectarianism the society as a whole including civilian and civil administration is to be blamed.

 

[Norwegian]

> 4 martial laws
> bangladesh
> baluchistan situation
> jihadi element of our society
> sectarianism
> mqm
> Kalashnikov culture
> religious intolerance
> triabl area's unrest
> casuing democracy not to flourish
> war on terror spilling into Pakistan'
> for all the bomb blasts whose material came in Pakistan by crossing the borders under the watchful eyes of our army
> kargil deaths
> siachien

Highly oversimplification!

When the military comes in---it is due to the failures of the civilians----.

Not always. Bhutto was about to form a civilian government with Mujeeb when Yahya intervened in East Pakistan, thus creating Bangladesh.

Sectarianism and religious intolerance is as much, if not more, the fault of parts of our political leadership.

Not really. There were religious riots in Lahore 1953 where Martial Law Courts sentenced the rioters leader Maulana Maududi to death. This sentence was however never carried out. It was external and internal pressure from clergy that saved his life since he incited against Qadianis and not Sunnis. That's how rule of favoritism and nepotism replaced rule of law in Pakistan already back then in its early days!

> Sectarianism <--- corrupt judges, police

No, it was dumb and extremist Ulemas and Maulanas that were responsible for sectarianism in Pakistan not judges, political leaders or police.

> religious intolerance <-- lack of spending on education

No, religious intolerance is quite common among Pakistan's educated classes too. Again, it was bigoted Mullahs and Maulvis that were responsible, not lack of education.

> causing democracy not to flourish <-- democracy only flourishes if the people want it to, people only want it to if the democracy gives them something

People wanted democracy to flourish when they voted for Mujeeb in 1970 elections, yet establishment failed to entertain people of Pakistan with their democracy. LOL

>> 4 martial laws <-- All done under extreme unrests <-- unrests like happening today as dharnas... unrests like PMLN carrying out rallies against PPP in previous tenure.... opposition always creates unrests... army should leave these matters to the politicians so that they may figure out their shit and let the system mature just like its been happening post Musharraf. But in the past army was waiting for an opportunity or creating unrests to come into power.

What unrest? Dharna of IK and TuQ happened in D-chowk. What economic, military or political centres are located there?

 

[PurpleButcher]

Highly oversimplification!

refer to post 12 for explaination

What unrest? Dharna of IK and TuQ happened in D-chowk. What economic, military or political centres are located there?

I was making the point that in the past such actions by oppositions paved the way for Martial Laws by declaring them unrest and against "National Interest"....It was a reply to theoretic Muslims' claim "All done under extreme unrests". I do not consider the democratic right to protest as unrest.

 

[MastanKhan]

Right. First it cuts off the legs of civilian power, and then blames it for falling down.

Hi,

No---it did not cut off the leg of any civilian----the civilians let the rot set in themselves---when the public smelled the STENCH and could not bear the smell of decay---they asked the army to come in and cut the leg off----take the rot off----so that the rest of the body may survive.

What perverse state of mind have you been living in ---you can fix law and order without social changes----. Law and order a reason for economy to get better---they are the primary reasons for a better life style---.

As a matter of fact---every developed and functioning society forced the rule of order and law centuries ago to bring about prosperity and wellbeing in the society.

You are so full of deceit-----.

 

[MastanKhan]

Like iraq's dictator fixed iraq... like libya's dictator fixed libya.... ??

Hi,

Look at Iraq now----see what you get without a Saddam----look at Libya----see what you get without a Qaddafi----. Those areas deserved those leaders.

You don't think that there is embarrassment in the American camps-----they don't say openly---but the whispers are coming out that they made blunders by taking out Saddam.

Iraq had almost a 100% literacy rate----a most educated society in the middle east---.

Norwegian---Bhutto was not forming nothing with Mujeeb----and Bhutto was the martial law admin as well.

 

[Norwegian]

I do not consider the democratic right to protest as unrest.

Thanks for the clarification. Military has no business in politics!

 

[zip]

What are duties of army ...?
Safeguarding border ..If thats a simple thing for them and want to contribute in developing society keeping law and order inside territory would be natural progression considering their expertise in that field ..But they kept on doing mistakes by toppling elected govt time to time ...Now elected govt is so spineless that it is not sure when another general want to rule them all ..They fought for country and many jawans sacrificed their life but thats exactly the job of every army and they are getting paid to do so ..In ideal world they are just a part of system under elected govt ..But they misused the power of gun which is provided by govt through tax payers money ..They have no bussiness to rule and its not their field of expertise ..This article again is an attempt to portray army as an alien holy entity which is fighting for people but truth is thats exactly why they get paid ...Its good to see they are doing their duty rather than illegally dethroning elected govt ...

 

[VCheng]

Hi,

No---it did not cut off the leg of any civilian----the civilians let the rot set in themselves---when the public smelled the STENCH and could not bear the smell of decay---they asked the army to come in and cut the leg off----take the rot off----so that the rest of the body may survive.

What perverse state of mind have you been living in ---you can fix law and order without social changes----. Law and order a reason for economy to get better---they are the primary reasons for a better life style---.

As a matter of fact---every developed and functioning society forced the rule of order and law centuries ago to bring about prosperity and wellbeing in the society.

You are so full of deceit-----.

Regardless of our disagreement on the root causes of the present decay, which lie nearly half a century deep, what is quite clear is that Pakistan is hopelessly incapable of dealing with its present challenges to remain viable in the 21st century. I'd rather concentrate on what is coming rather than what has been.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

After giving up the right to internationalize Kashmir,

Pakistan never gave up that right - the Simla Agreement (as clearly pointed out to you several times, without any rational rebuttal on your part) clearly allows for the involvement of third parties in the India-Pakistan dispute resolution, and it endorses the commitment of both parties to the UN Charter, which in turn endorses the commitment of both nation's to the UNSC Resolutions passed on Kashmir.

 

[VCheng]

What are duties of army ...?
Safeguarding border ..If thats a simple thing for them and want to contribute in developing society keeping law and order inside territory would be natural progression considering their expertise in that field ..But they kept on doing mistakes by toppling elected govt time to time ...Now elected govt is so spineless that it is not sure when another general want to rule them all ..They fought for country and many jawans sacrificed their life but thats exactly the job of every army and they are getting paid to do so ..In ideal world they are just a part of system under elected govt ..But they misused the power of gun which is provided by govt through tax payers money ..They have no bussiness to rule and its not their field of expertise ..This article again is an attempt to portray army as an alien holy entity which is fighting for people but truth is thats exactly why they get paid ...Its good to see they are doing their duty rather than illegally dethroning elected govt ...

That is the basic tragedy that has befallen Pakistan.

 

[boke]

中国的媒体上也看到了这些内容，遗憾！自从美国的反恐把巴基斯坦扯进来，感觉巴基斯坦就没过过好日子，我不想在这里反美，但是这是个事实。巴基斯坦需要一个更加有力的政府来强化国内行政管辖，增强管辖力度；军队建设和训练也需要加强，不管谁侵犯边界或者威胁到士兵的生命安全都应该严厉予以应对。地方势力只有在服从国家和社会利益的基础上才有存在的必要，如果都各自为政，甚至勾结外部势力和中央政府对抗，那国家将永无宁日，更谈不上发展强大。不要忘了，巴基斯坦还有着相比较自身强大的多的敌人还有一大堆恐怖分子。所以，安定，团结，加强建设是必须的！