The Debt we owe the Army & PAF

[Ray_of_Hope]

The army sets the terms of national discourse not only because it has the tanks and the divisions but because the political class and the Brahmins are not up to the mark. Then they whine about military dominance.

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This is the most important part.Well said bro

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

Like iraq's dictator fixed iraq... like libya's dictator fixed libya.... ??

This is not iraq or libya.This is pakistan

 

[PurpleButcher]

P.S.Why r u creating hate for our army by posting illogical things?

Brother i am not creating hate but trying to state my opinion in the hope of a healthy logical discussion void of any accusations about my or someone else's intent. Kindly if you find certain things illogical in my post, argue on those points as has been done by theoretic Muslim, i will be more than happy to defend my view point and even change it if convinced. Otherwise whether my posts are creating hate or love or babies i do not care.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Some of your points are valid, some are not.

Sectarianism and religious intolerance is as much, if not more, the fault of parts of our political leadership. The PMLN, as recently as the 2013 elections, was looking to build political alliances with the Sunni sectarian/terrorist group ASWJ/LeJ. It was Zulfi Bhutto who legalized second class status and hatred for the Ahmadi community by pandering to the religious extremists. And Zulfi also played a role in reducing the space for compromise with Mujib in East Pakistan after he had won the elections.

Not only PMLN were looking for alliance with terrorists, Now, they are MNAs And MPAs .
Sectarianism, Religious Bigotry, Role of the Government and Takfiri Agenda

Recent jhelum incident happened in same constituency. Anyway it was political revenge.
On other site, No wonder, religious extremism is on peak !! They are not taking action because it will decrease their political support in Jhang, Jhelum and other areas.

 

[PurpleButcher]

This is not iraq or libya.This is pakistan

Yes but the Pakistan which wasnt affected by Martial Laws was much better than todays Pakistan ..sad but true and hope things change.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

What stages are you talking about when the older kid is kicked out of the house for another younger kid by the time the first one is ready to take on more responsibility?

It's called democracy.

You expect someone to fix the economy with having control of the financial aspects? How about trying to fix law and order without social development? Or may be getting foreign investment without any continuity of government or foreign policy? How about trying to achieve peace with your largest neighbor that is not allowed to happen since it will stop the gravy train?

All the ambassadors of Pakistan are civilian right? Why aren't they organizing trade conventions in the host countries?

Mushi did that. In fact he demanded his ambassadors give him annual reports of what they did to drum up business.

You can have any piece of paper you want saying 'Peace'. The Israelis have it, its called Oslo. Real Peace doesnt need to have a treaty with signatures.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Like iraq's dictator fixed iraq... like libya's dictator fixed libya.... ??

Look at Iraq before Saddam then compare to during his rule. Was he the best h3ll no. He could have done with out the Iran-Iraq War and Kuwait.

Look at Libya before Qaddafi, and during. High Literacy, Health Care, Gender Equality. Now look at it.

 

[VCheng]

It's called democracy.



All the ambassadors of Pakistan are civilian right? Why aren't they organizing trade conventions in the host countries?

Mushi did that. In fact he demanded his ambassadors give him annual reports of what they did to drum up business.

You can have any piece of paper you want saying 'Peace'. The Israelis have it, its called Oslo. Real Peace doesnt need to have a treaty with signatures.

Democracy is when the head of the household is elected. Martial Law is when the nascent rightful heir is kicked out of the house.

What good are ambassadors when the real control of foreign policy is with the GHQ?

And Pakistan will remain in the dumps unless it makes peace with its neighbors, paper or no paper.

Your arguments are all dishonest, Sir.

 

[Hallian_Khan]

stop blamming nawaz shareef too (though i hate him too) he is there coz of zia ul haq

 

[PurpleButcher]

Look at Iraq before Saddam then compare to during his rule. Was he the best h3ll no. He could have done with out the Iran-Iraq War and Kuwait.

Look at Libya before Qaddafi, and during. High Literacy, Health Care, Gender Equality. Now look at it.

and how did they end up??

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

and how did they end up??

Singapore, S. Korea, China

 

[Spy Master]

the army also owes its debt to the the bloody civilians for

> 4 martial laws
> bangladesh
> baluchistan situation
> jihadi element of our society
> sectarianism
> mqm
> Kalashnikov culture
> religious intolerance
> triabl area's unrest
> casuing democracy not to flourish
> war on terror spilling into Pakistan'
> for all the bomb blasts whose material came in Pakistan by crossing the borders under the watchful eyes of our army
> kargil deaths
> siachien

> so on so forth

PS:- i respect the jawans but not the decision makers of our proud army. before we move on the army must apologize to the nation

Most of the points you mentioned are failures of Civilian Gov...if you want to go back then start from 1947 when your civilian leadership takes 9 years and still no major constitutional,economical progress...that was the first time when military had to intervene but the thing is its also true most Generals have lust of power...!

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

Kindly if you find certain things illogical in my post, argue on those points as has been done

Read my post again

 

[Solomon2]

Amazing job by the P.A., albeit belated. Doesn't speak much for previous leaders, both civilian and military, who claimed such an offensive would only increase terrorist attacks in Pakistan and therefore the solution was to talk the extremists into "peace". (StrategyPage commentary here.)

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

Yes but the Pakistan which wasnt affected by Martial Laws was much better than todays Pakistan ..sad but true and hope things change.

Yeah like these nawaz and imran khan r gonna change pakistan.forget that,that will not happen ever in pakistan.Pakistan will prosper only in dictatorship like it did in Ayub`s rule