The Consequences of a Pakistani Sea-Based Nuclear Second Strike Capability

[Viper0011.]

[QUOTE="wiseone2, post: 6924653, member: 167111" ]At any given time how many Pakistani navy submarines are at sea ? how are you going to communicate with a submarine at sea ? how are you going to secure your nukes so that a rogue commander does not start a war with India ? how are you going to protect the submarine that carries nukes ?

India does not have a ship or sub with nukes for 2nd strike capability. They are busy answering the above questions. India's naval budget is several times the Pakistani naval budget. [/QUOTE]

1) Whether its 1 or 2, or some unannounced ships, one of these will be able to strike. THAT's the key. There is a reason why the US,Russians and others have hundreds of weapons. Its not about how many can get destroyed, its about how FEW can actually hit the other one. Let's really stop this silly, 14 year old, high school argument. If you can't comprehend serious issues, perhaps post some Indian actresses (hot ones), pictures and we can discuss that. It may be a lighter topic for you.

2) In a nuclear confrontation, forget about a nuke sub, if there were a few fish, that might be able to fire nuclear farts, the other party would still be scared. Just the nature of the most dangerous game on the planet!

 

[wiseone2]

[QUOTE="wiseone2, post: 6924653, member: 167111" ]At any given time how many Pakistani navy submarines are at sea ? how are you going to communicate with a submarine at sea ? how are you going to secure your nukes so that a rogue commander does not start a war with India ? how are you going to protect the submarine that carries nukes ?

India does not have a ship or sub with nukes for 2nd strike capability. They are busy answering the above questions. India's naval budget is several times the Pakistani naval budget.

1) Whether its 1 or 2, or some unannounced ships, one of these will be able to strike. THAT's the key. There is a reason why the US,Russians and others have hundreds of weapons. Its not about how many can get destroyed, its about how FEW can actually hit the other one. Let's really stop this silly, 14 year old, high school argument. If you can't comprehend serious issues, perhaps post some Indian actresses (hot ones), pictures and we can discuss that. It may be a lighter topic for you.

2) In a nuclear confrontation, forget about a nuke sub, if there were a few fish, that might be able to fire nuclear farts, the other party would still be scared. Just the nature of the most dangerous game on the planet![/QUOTE]

why put it on a ship when you can easily fire a missile from land base ?
why put it on a ship or sub when it is more easily detected than a land base ?

If Pakistan wants to waste on its budget on a sea based deterrent feel free. I do not decide Pakistan's budget.

i am giving my two cents ...

 

[Viper0011.]

why put it on a ship when you can easily fire a missile from land base ?
why put it on a ship or sub when it is more easily detected than a land base ?

If Pakistan wants to waste on its budget on a sea based deterrent feel free. I do not decide Pakistan's budget.
i am giving my two cents ...

Well, your two cents are worthless. Instead of silly questioning like a 4 year old child "why, why, why"....how about you try to duck when this happens. You don't want something to come hit your roof top in case of a MAD conflict.......

This conversation and posts have become useless and aren't worth continuing on with. So peace out. When you grow up and have some more sense, may be you should start to engage in serious topics like this. Otherwise, mature up first.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I doubt pakistan will ever put their nukes on a submarine
you are free to waste your $$$

that's what many of your country said about our nuclear program in general...that it would never materialize to anything - especially weaponization

 

[SecularNationalist]

I doubt pakistan will ever put their nukes on a submarine
you are free to waste your $$$

Thanks for the laughter

 

[The SC]

By the way, what's the point you are trying to make, you've added Pakistan, China, India, the US, Vietnam, the Indian Ocean , but still no concrete point or defense of your initial argument on why China won't help Pakistan with sea based deterrent. At the end, you end your argument with "I don't think so"..... and with 0 facts

See the bold above and my answers below.
1) So China won't work with Pakistan in giving a nuclear armed country, its probably the most strategic ally, sea based deterrent. But India is giving Vietnam just that

2) You think China or anyone cares for a "foreign policy disaster" aka, the war of words, statements and media shows, vs. the actual stuff that interacts indirectly or directly with their national interests? Did the same foreign policy disaster stop India from working with Afghanistan and training the same Taliban against Pakistan, it initially accused Pakistan of potentially using as "proxies"?

3) When you end an argument as "I don't think so"....you've ruined your ability to show facts. Personal thoughts don't present factual matters. Your posts have now become "gossip" for all intensive purposes.

I think Kate Upton should dump her boyfriend and marry me....but that's what "I think" aka, in my head. Not real, never going to happen

Simpler yet, from whom friendship will Vietnam benefit most, China or India who is serving American, Western and Usraelis (foreign) interests in the area? The answer is obvious.
India is dumb to play such a game with Chinese look likes, it won't even know to whom it is giving or selling its best weapons.

A design based on Russian Akula, and shamelessly claimed as indigenous. This sub is as indigenous as is Arjun (German design), Dhruv (Eurocopter), Tejas (French), Brahmos (Russian Yakhont).

You forgot to mention that the Marut in 1961 ran on an Egyptian engine!!!

Looks like your bloated egos dont let you read your own media reports:

How India's pride INS Arihant was built | Business Standard News
INS Arihant, first made-in-India nuclear submarine begins sea trials | Zee News

The photo you have posted as INS Arihant is Russian Delta II.

View attachment 203211

This is Arihant:

View attachment 203212

This Arihant looks more like a somewhat bigger Kilo class submarine. The have Just enlarged a Kilo class and added a nuclear reactor and some nuclear "BM" missiles capabilities. Looks like a patched submarine.

Ok, I missed your answer yesterday.

Now,

1) I believe that is your pride speaking, and making it sound easy. In the best immediate 5 years there will no major investment in the country except Chinese. You know the reason. And let me let you know that IS, is coming.Bits and pieces of fdi based on the value of the deal will happen in Pakistan but foreign aid is not going to go away soon. What will happen is, the Muslim donors will increase and Chinese will literally start running Pakistan in terms of electricity, water , defence of the country and (not yet) soon gas. That's gonna be the price for foreign aid from China alone. KSA similar. Turkey will also start in a few years if they can manage US about it.

So, yes I am with you in your enthusiasm and optimism depending on the way Pakistan handles the Indian concerns.

2) great. I guess the modern version of nuclear bumm in Pakistan today is a nuclear submarine ? Only and only the Chinese will "potentially" help you with one. We'll see that in point 3. If they don't, I said if they don't, you gonna build a nuclear submarine ? Russkies helped us all along the way and all we have managed now is a td, a tech demonstrator. Which works well mind you and is in scheme of things. But hey look at the point. Pakistan will have to have real blessings from Allah to make it happen. Tangible miracles. Otherwise, I doubt they can do that on their own in less than 10 years at least. I mean 365*24*7*10 days of continuous work. You know what I'm talking about.

3) what about the fact that Chinese will loose control of Pakistan's nuclear policy and do you think China approves of your solo acts ? It never stands by you, neither it will in future. So, no they will not give you the tech, they might lease you a few old submarines for operational experience but nope, they WILL NOT give you the technology for nuclear core for submarine or the ballistic missiles. Chinese doubt you of selling out to Muslims and Americans. Americans do the same about you and China and Muslims do the same with Pakistan when it comes to America. The non U.S. loving Muslims I meant. See, Pakistan can float in this triangle but nuke subs with real warheads, nobody trusts you. Not saying China will not do a lot more than what one expects. But it will not transfer tech it can not directly control. Not with Pakistan. Honest opinion. It will be a game of 60% help. Critical 40% out of reach. Not gonna get a quiet nuke sub out on the sea and come back alive to home port.

1) Didn't India boost its economy from foreign aid and investments aka the IT industry.
2) Make that in the past, the 19 years a gone by...
3) Sounds like you are talking about India.

India needs a sea based second strike capability to deter China.
Why does Pakistan need nukes at sea ? It is easier for Pakistan to hide their nukes on land than the ocean.

Because India can turn them anytime against Pakistan. Didn't you know that?

You do not build a nuclear sub to keep the enemy busy. You buy more mine laying ships.

You guys are not objective. What's the point of talking ?

Dude, China can do something about shaheens on pakistani land, it can not do anything about a nuclear submarine hiding near the looooong Chinese coast with 12 nuclear missiles mated with warheads. It has to trail it always to keep track of it. On the other hand, China can track all your shaheen, gaznavi, gazi, taimur, tipu, owaisi missiles through satellites real time and can take it out. Before they can be launched. Remaining air dropped bombs ? Plaf keeps the best air defence at home and not available for export. There goes the second strike from air.

I'm done with those who can't see what they are staring at. Read the above paragraph. Write it down and think about it and then come back and reply me. Thank you.

Why are you replacing some how India with China in "your above paragraph", it just shows your own fear.

having naval deterrent is too expensive for Pakistan. To deploy one nuclear submarine at sea will cost hundreds of millions in operational costs. Plus to have one sub at sea all the time means you need two more in the docks.

if you have one sub in the sea what is the probability the Indian navy cannot knock it out within minutes ?

it is easier to hide your nukes on land than sea.



you have a 2nd strike on land with respect to India. why do you want to put your nukes at sea where it will easier to detect and destroy ?

pakistan has not made any indigenous ships or subs. at the moment pakistan could not build 2nd strike capability on her own

The GCC can lower the wages of its Indian workers and Finance 2 or 3 nuclear subs for Pakistan with that money, it can also finance their operational cost with the same money. .

Actually they will be very difficult to detect, let alone destroy.

 

[Basel]

At any given time how many Pakistani navy submarines are at sea ? how are you going to communicate with a submarine at sea ? how are you going to secure your nukes so that a rogue commander does not start a war with India ? how are you going to protect the submarine that carries nukes ?

India does not have a ship or sub with nukes for 2nd strike capability. They are busy answering the above questions. India's naval budget is several times the Pakistani naval budget.

Even Britain and France are finding it hard to maintain their maritime second strike capability



I doubt pakistan will ever put their nukes on a submarine
you are free to waste your $$$

Its none of your business and why we tell you all that?? after all you are a foe against whom our all military capabilities are developed and deployed.

 

[The Deterrent]

At any given time how many Pakistani navy submarines are at sea ?

Doesn't matters. Indo-Pak conflicts escalate gradually, assets can be put to sea as soon as things start heating up.

how are you going to communicate with a submarine at sea ?

Via VLF/ULF comms.

how are you going to secure your nukes so that a rogue commander does not start a war with India ?

Ever heard of PALs, 2/3-man rules and the NCA?
Security of Pakistani Nuclear Assets - Interview of Director, SPD Pakistani NCA

how are you going to protect the submarine that carries nukes ?

There is no need to. All submarines (SSBNs/SSGNs) world-wide rely on themselves for protection.

 

[soundwave1987]

You do not build a nuclear sub to keep the enemy busy. You buy more mine laying ships.

You guys are not objective. What's the point of talking ?

Dude, China can do something about shaheens on pakistani land, it can not do anything about a nuclear submarine hiding near the looooong Chinese coast with 12 nuclear missiles mated with warheads. It has to trail it always to keep track of it. On the other hand, China can track all your shaheen, gaznavi, gazi, taimur, tipu, owaisi missiles through satellites real time and can take it out. Before they can be launched. Remaining air dropped bombs ? Plaf keeps the best air defence at home and not available for export. There goes the second strike from air.

I'm done with those who can't see what they are staring at. Read the above paragraph. Write it down and think about it and then come back and reply me. Thank you.





I don't know honestly, but I'm guessing a sonar network ?

well sir I dont think we have the ability to “track down”or “take out”any pakistani nuke device on their own land until very recent years（even now it is not for sure）but we still helped our pakistani friend for a long time，and back then we didnt even know if we could handle a potential pakistan nuke strike in future. the diplomatic sensitiveness may be a problem but I think the main obstacle is financial not political，after all a SSBN is quite expensive in both purchase and usage.

 

[Basel]

well sir I dont think we have the ability to “track down”or “take out”any pakistani nuke device on their own land until very recent years（even now it is not for sure）but we still helped our pakistani friend for a long time，and back then we didnt even know if we could handle a potential pakistan nuke strike in future. the diplomatic sensitiveness may be a problem but I think the main obstacle is financial not political，after all a SSBN is quite expensive in both purchase and usage.

SSNs / SSBNs can be leased if a world power is ready to do that.

 

[The SC]

I dont think the Chinese will dare for that .Entire World including India knows who give weapons to Pakistan.

Giving sea based systems would be far more provocative .And India also will look for something like that in Vetnam.In fact India is already in process for giving ships to Vietnam.
Chinese gave a lot of help to Pakistan in the past .Attempting again at current scenario will be a foreign policy disaster to China .Especially after they have already got shock treatment in Indian OceanPerhpas they will help you with sea based babur etc.Nuke subs I dont think so.

Most of your weapons are Russian so what is your point?

 

[soundwave1987]

SSNs / SSBNs can be leased if a world power is ready to do that.

I'm absolutely with you sir but I think right now the defence budget should go for more efficient power multipliers like advanced aircraft or AWACS or satellite which are the fastest ways to modernlize the military force. The navy is too long a way to go and I'm sure PN will seek for maritime strategic force once the economy bounce back，and then 1～2 type094 would be a reasonable choice

 

[Skywalker]

No more foreign aid.


That's for sure.


They all will stop except of course China dear.

P.S. : a question for all.

Will China like Pakistan to have sea based nuclear second strike ?

Food for thought.

Do go deeper.

MR. Nine inch nail kindly add another half inch , you will understand what they actually mean, during whole 90s there was no aid from USA, when you Indians have nothing to answer you come up with this crap, with all your so called money you are still unable to provide the civic amenities to majority of your population. Anyways who cares what a retard Indian think about Pakistan.

 

[saiyan0321]

Each country must progress in its own way and its military evolves the way it wants to. Pakistan has been working on second strike capability for a while and of pakistan achieves it then it won't create imbalance. It will infact improve Pakistan's deterrent capability as we all know that the point of a nuclear missile is to deter the enemy from attacking and a second strike capability will only help that cause.

 

[Nine Inch Nails]

MR. Nine inch nail kindly add another half inch , you will understand what they actually mean, during whole 90s there was no aid from USA, when you Indians have nothing to answer you come up with this crap, with all your so called money you are still unable to provide the civic amenities to majority of your population. Anyways who cares what a retard Indian think about Pakistan.

Last I heard you other than having developed a loud foul mouth are still living in US AID, Saudi AID, and imf loans.

The only difference is in 90s you didn't know English and didn't have the internet to come and barf on.