The Consequences of a Pakistani Sea-Based Nuclear Second Strike Capability

[salarsikander]

Basically you are saying, you went with U.S., left U.S., going with China, gonna leave China for Russia in the future.

And india is non aligned and jealous...

You said something about Pakistan not backstabbing an ally ?

LoL, it's ok my man, just as long as you understand the things. I'm ok.

Hi,

The situation is far worse than I thought.

You;ve serious comprehension issues. I was trying to explain the friendship relation dynamics, but it seems it went all over your head.

Do reply me next time when you have something worth to debate. Otherwise dont bother

 

[Gufi]

Our king is well secured .You dont have to concern about him.We are 100% sure about our indigenous capability.
That is why we faced delays ,failures and ultimate success in our R &D projects.But some nations didnt experienced failure in their R&D project.What is that Martian technology.
Perhaps you dont have any interest in IoR and cant do anything about it even if you have.
But China cares and that is royally snubbed.
More will come in future.Our independent policy is always an asset to us

ok what content you have no real gains which affect Pakistan, the foreign policy of yours has pushed away your strongest ally, and your R&D can be seen by that fighter we keep hearing about but never really materializes. Or those missiles which can not really combat a nuclear threat. Yes, you are able to kill us but we can do the same, and that is why you stay away from war. Wonder why India with all the hard talk never really fights? As for your capital it is not 20 minutes away and exposed, your shipping lanes are exposed, and your country has no will to fight, just eating money from the people of India, build more ships and submarines, it will not change the fact that you are minutes away from a nuclear holocaust if you invade. That fact you forget and talk about pearls... First secure your borders and be able to say you can counter it before you explain the achievements you make. Make a missile with a range of ten thousand km, does not change the fact that we need 2000 km missiles and 20 warheads to finish India. Which is a deterrent which is why you stay away.

 

[Viper0011.]

Ok, I missed your answer yesterday.

Now,

1) I believe that is your pride speaking, and making it sound easy. In the best immediate 5 years there will no major investment in the country except Chinese. You know the reason. And let me let you know that IS, is coming.Bits and pieces of fdi based on the value of the deal will happen in Pakistan but foreign aid is not going to go away soon. What will happen is, the Muslim donors will increase and Chinese will literally start running Pakistan in terms of electricity, water , defence of the country and (not yet) soon gas. That's gonna be the price for foreign aid from China alone. KSA similar. Turkey will also start in a few years if they can manage US about it.

So, yes I am with you in your enthusiasm and optimism depending on the way Pakistan handles the Indian concerns.

2) great. I guess the modern version of nuclear bumm in Pakistan today is a nuclear submarine ? Only and only the Chinese will "potentially" help you with one. We'll see that in point 3. If they don't, I said if they don't, you gonna build a nuclear submarine ? Russkies helped us all along the way and all we have managed now is a td, a tech demonstrator. Which works well mind you and is in scheme of things. But hey look at the point. Pakistan will have to have real blessings from Allah to make it happen. Tangible miracles. Otherwise, I doubt they can do that on their own in less than 10 years at least. I mean 365*24*7*10 days of continuous work. You know what I'm talking about.

3) what about the fact that Chinese will loose control of Pakistan's nuclear policy and do you think China approves of your solo acts ? It never stands by you, neither it will in future. So, no they will not give you the tech, they might lease you a few old submarines for operational experience but nope, they WILL NOT give you the technology for nuclear core for submarine or the ballistic missiles. Chinese doubt you of selling out to Muslims and Americans. Americans do the same about you and China and Muslims do the same with Pakistan when it comes to America. The non U.S. loving Muslims I meant. See, Pakistan can float in this triangle but nuke subs with real warheads, nobody trusts you. Not saying China will not do a lot more than what one expects. But it will not transfer tech it can not directly control. Not with Pakistan. Honest opinion. It will be a game of 60% help. Critical 40% out of reach. Not gonna get a quiet nuke sub out on the sea and come back alive to home port.

There are people who live in fool's paradise and in that paradise, the mental farts like the post above, seem real and "strategic". Again, there is NO freaking facts in your post. All gossip and hear-say. I don't even know how to respond to utter blob. You brought in your hatred towards Pakistan, I get it, then India, then America, then Saudi, then Muslims, then America again!!! What a post... , has NO facts, NO value and it shows me that you are stressed out, and can't focus on one thing.

Let's do this, I've honestly tested your mental capacity and its great for gossip only. Let's open up a new thread and talk about some hot Indian actresses (if there are any), will you tell us who's dating who? Or we can talk about American celebrities like Kate Upton or Kate Hudson or Rachel McAdams or Jessica Simpson?? You know every Indian likes Goris.....

So let's debate on the topics best suite you as you can't deal with complex topics like strategy, military doctrine and Pakistan pissing all over your dreams and gossip. I don't want you to be too stressed out. Life's short, let's do happy talk. Your mind thinks.... . So let's not overload it the poor thing!

 

[MastanKhan]

The words which have described the Chinese policy in its neighbourhood are as follows :

"China has embraced its worst neighbours to keep some amount of control over them."

1. North Korea.
2. Pakistan
3. Myanmar

I think that rather proves the theory.

It will NEVER EVER lose its control on islamabad by giving them something it might get threatened with later at one point of time, by Islamabad. Period.

Rest, it's the internet, fanboys being fanboys !!!

Hi,

What a post-----thank you for coming to our house---. Barely 4 days on the board and ready to take a leave of absence----.

 

[SrNair]

First of all.Russia is still remain as our closest ally.One day visit for business in Pakistan wont change the decades old privilaged relations between Russia and India .A few helicopters and RD engines cant challenge thatrelation .If you read so much from one day visit then that is your policy makers short sightdness.
Our diplomacy enabled us to keep good relations with Saudi Arabia,Iran and Israel .A quite self contrasting complex relation triangle.
The same policy helped us to stand against the mighty US when they insulted our woman diplomat .And that was one yearago.The same Russia also witness our stubborness.So they know us and our relation is way deeper than the Pakistan can imagine.
I dont like this doomsday talks.Because for me,perhaps majority of Indians and for our policy makers war is just an outdated concept .We have a lot of economy and emerging status in the world.We dont sacrifice our hard earned assets and wealth for a nation that is constantly depended on IMF ,Saudi,US aid.
Chinese thinks that Arunachal Pradesh is their part then why dont they invade us for grabbing that land the reason is simple .They have a lot to loose.

Peoples in here in thinks that Indians have some type of Constipation for war.
But TTA you already knows war is a last resort.
But except war we have a lot of other options to do .Pakistan's first and last resort is war.But for us ,we have a lot of capability to intitiate covert actions both diplomatic and military level other than the last resort that is called war.
Something that is we already doing now.

Perhaps you might be followed the events during 2000-2003.At that time Pakistan was demanding themselves during the diplomatic talks ,with a lots of round of talks with separatists by Pak Mission in India.


Now in this 2014 we just cancelled the talks with Pakistan when your Pak mission negotiated with seaparatists .We cancelled just for a negotiation .

Look at the distance and gap between 2003,when we reashed a ceasefire agreement and this 2014.And this will tripled after pne decade and Pakistan would take another 2-3 years for restarting their engine (if you planned for it) according to your opinion.
Food for thought TTA.

And finally our defence budget us just less than the 2% of entire GDP which is quite healthy.

Can you say same about Pakistan.?
And new arms projects we just sanctioned recently will be Make in India .Means a lots of jobs in here.

ok what content you have no real gains which affect Pakistan, the foreign policy of yours has pushed away your strongest ally, and your R&D can be seen by that fighter we keep hearing about but never really materializes. Or those missiles which can not really combat a nuclear threat. Yes, you are able to kill us but we can do the same, and that is why you stay away from war. Wonder why India with all the hard talk never really fights? As for your capital it is not 20 minutes away and exposed, your shipping lanes are exposed, and your country has no will to fight, just eating money from the people of India, build more ships and submarines, it will not change the fact that you are minutes away from a nuclear holocaust if you invade. That fact you forget and talk about pearls... First secure your borders and be able to say you can counter it before you explain the achievements you make. Make a missile with a range of ten thousand km, does not change the fact that we need 2000 km missiles and 20 warheads to finish India. Which is a deterrent which is why you stay away.

 

[Nine Inch Nails]

There are people who live in fool's paradise and in that paradise, the mental farts like the post above, seem real and "strategic". Again, there is NO freaking facts in your post. All gossip and hear-say. I don't even know how to respond to utter blob. You brought in your hatred towards Pakistan, I get it, then India, then America, then Saudi, then Muslims, then America again!!! What a post... , has NO facts, NO value and it shows me that you are stressed out, and can't focus on one thing.

Let's do this, I've honestly tested your mental capacity and its great for gossip only. Let's open up a new thread and talk about some hot Indian actresses (if there are any), will you tell us who's dating who? Or we can talk about American celebrities like Kate Upton or Kate Hudson or Rachel McAdams or Jessica Simpson?? You know every Indian likes Goris.....

So let's debate on the topics best suite you as you can't deal with complex topics like strategy, military doctrine and Pakistan pissing all over your dreams and gossip. I don't want you to be too stressed out. Life's short, let's do happy talk. Your mind thinks.... . So let's not overload it the poor thing!

So nothing substantial u have to say ? Good going !

Hi,

What a post-----thank you for coming to our house---. Barely 4 days on the board and ready to take a leave of absence----.

Arey sirji !!!!

Hi back !

To the wind that flows through teh interwebz !

 

[MM_Haider]

Russia may not keep anyone at bay but you are forgetting USA. USA will never allow china to be a free dog in the war scenario of idnia-pakistan.

in all the posts everyone is trying to imply one thing that Pakistan by itself cannot develop second nuclear strike capability.. ?? any good reason for that?

Many wouldn't know that Pakistan herself is offering other countries to build submarines and frigates..

 

[wiseone2]

Sea Based Nuclear Strike capability will provide Pakistan strategic depth which it don't have on land, and in case of MAD Pakistan can lose 80 to 90% of its area and facilities then only sea based nukes will be able to strike back on India.

having naval deterrent is too expensive for Pakistan. To deploy one nuclear submarine at sea will cost hundreds of millions in operational costs. Plus to have one sub at sea all the time means you need two more in the docks.

if you have one sub in the sea what is the probability the Indian navy cannot knock it out within minutes ?

it is easier to hide your nukes on land than sea.

in all the posts everyone is trying to imply one thing that Pakistan by itself cannot develop second nuclear strike capability.. ?? any good reason for that?

Many wouldn't know that Pakistan herself is offering other countries to build submarines and frigates..

you have a 2nd strike on land with respect to India. why do you want to put your nukes at sea where it will easier to detect and destroy ?

pakistan has not made any indigenous ships or subs. at the moment pakistan could not build 2nd strike capability on her own

 

[IceCold]

in all the posts everyone is trying to imply one thing that Pakistan by itself cannot develop second nuclear strike capability.. ?? any good reason for that?

Many wouldn't know that Pakistan herself is offering other countries to build submarines and frigates..

Only Indians suffer from these delusions that Pakistan cannot make anything. We should let them have such delusions. It only serves our purpose. Besides one can imagine the looks on their faces when Pakistan actually comes out with things they thought, we could not have. Priceless

 

[Basel]

having naval deterrent is too expensive for Pakistan. To deploy one nuclear submarine at sea will cost hundreds of millions in operational costs. Plus to have one sub at sea all the time means you need two more in the docks.

if you have one sub in the sea what is the probability the Indian navy cannot knock it out within minutes ?

it is easier to hide your nukes on land than sea.



you have a 2nd strike on land with respect to India. why do you want to put your nukes at sea where it will easier to detect and destroy ?

pakistan has not made any indigenous ships or subs. at the moment pakistan could not build 2nd strike capability on her own

How an Indian know what Pakistan need or not?? and what Pakistan can afford or not?? its our issue not yours and why you will want Pakistan to have second strike capability as it will assure MAD in case of full scale war with India.

 

[Viper0011.]

Having naval deterrent is too expensive for Pakistan. To deploy one nuclear submarine at sea will cost hundreds of millions in operational costs. Plus to have one sub at sea all the time means you need two more in the docks.

if you have one sub in the sea what is the probability the Indian navy cannot knock it out within minutes? it is easier to hide your nukes on land than sea.

you have a 2nd strike on land with respect to India. why do you want to put your nukes at sea where it will easier to detect and destroy ?

Pakistan has not made any indigenous ships or subs. at the moment Pakistan could not build 2nd strike capability on her own

If you just hate Pakistan, I can't help you. But if you wanted someone to help you clear some brain fog....I might offer free services!!

1) Nuclear deterrent is too expensive for Pakistan? In terms of what? They already operate subs, ships, F-16's and other expensive assets.....so what's "so" expensive about a sub? They can also use the same Agosta's and use their own cruise missiles on them, modified of course. So what "so" expensive here? Their military already has a few billions of operating cost....what a few hundred million would do? Any real fact or we are just gossiping??

2) Whether they have one at ocean, docked or playing video games, why does it bother you? For you, the only concern is that you have an asset out in the ocean with a second strike capability. You worry about your sleep, not about who's at the dock, vs. beech with babes in bikinis!

3) You think finding a sub is "easier" in the ocean? You know Pakistan has multiple ways to get close to a launch range towards India. Their subs have AIP so they can park below, move at certain times when the tides are high and get to where they need to. If you don't know how subs actually operate in the ocean, then you shouldn't write silly post. Just go and gossip about Indian actresses instead. You mat be really good at it.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistan has plans to build a nuclear submarine. Perhaps we can build a Type-95 class vessel with our Chinese friends and solve this issue for the long term. As the article suggests a Pakistani triad will create a balance not the other way around.

the nuclear triad will be attained by Pakistan.....and i see it happening in just few years. Once we have sub-launch platform we'll have land air and various sea launched nuclear missile capability

I dont think the Chinese will dare for that .Entire World including India knows who give weapons to Pakistan.

Giving sea based systems would be far more provocative .And India also will look for something like that in Vetnam.In fact India is already in process for giving ships to Vietnam.
Chinese gave a lot of help to Pakistan in the past .Attempting again at current scenario will be a foreign policy disaster to China .Especially after they have already got shock treatment in Indian OceanPerhpas they will help you with sea based babur etc.Nuke subs I dont think so.

you realize you just answered your own question right?

 

[SecularNationalist]

Seriously why a lot of indians are crying about the pakistani submarine on this thread ? It,s like feeling insecure or butt hurt ?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Buddy, IS will come first to India rather than Pakistan. They cant do much here other than spray paint. Don't think the large muslim population in India will stay dormant forever. There are 200 million muslims in India. Once we deal with Taliban, it will be time to raise them.

Raise them? Zombie outbreak?

 

[wiseone2]

If you just hate Pakistan, I can't help you. But if you wanted someone to help you clear some brain fog....I might offer free services!!

1) Nuclear deterrent is too expensive for Pakistan? In terms of what? They already operate subs, ships, F-16's and other expensive assets.....so what's "so" expensive about a sub? They can also use the same Agosta's and use their own cruise missiles on them, modified of course. So what "so" expensive here? Their military already has a few billions of operating cost....what a few hundred million would do? Any real fact or we are just gossiping??

2) Whether they have one at ocean, docked or playing video games, why does it bother you? For you, the only concern is that you have an asset out in the ocean with a second strike capability. You worry about your sleep, not about who's at the dock, vs. beech with babes in bikinis!

3) You think finding a sub is "easier" in the ocean? You know Pakistan has multiple ways to get close to a launch range towards India. Their subs have AIP so they can park below, move at certain times when the tides are high and get to where they need to. If you don't know how subs actually operate in the ocean, then you shouldn't write silly post. Just go and gossip about Indian actresses instead. You mat be really good at it.

How an Indian know what Pakistan need or not?? and what Pakistan can afford or not?? its our issue not yours and why you will want Pakistan to have second strike capability as it will assure MAD in case of full scale war with India.

At any given time how many Pakistani navy submarines are at sea ? how are you going to communicate with a submarine at sea ? how are you going to secure your nukes so that a rogue commander does not start a war with India ? how are you going to protect the submarine that carries nukes ?

India does not have a ship or sub with nukes for 2nd strike capability. They are busy answering the above questions. India's naval budget is several times the Pakistani naval budget.

Even Britain and France are finding it hard to maintain their maritime second strike capability

Seriously why a lot of indians are crying about the pakistani submarine on this thread ? It,s like feeling insecure or butt hurt ?

I doubt pakistan will ever put their nukes on a submarine
you are free to waste your $$$