The ChiPak Threat

[Dance]

I don,t beieve Pakistan is a Serious military threat with or without Nukes.

In my book The well being of a nation, its political stability, education system, technology level, economy, GDP and Forex will give you an idea of a nations REAL strength.

Pakistan has failed in everyone of those factors. This tells me this nation is utterly disorgnised, disfunctional from the ground up. Very importantly they cant make serious decisions about anything. They are a dividede nation between military generals with too much political power and rich powerful politicians raping the countries resources.

DO THEY RESEMBLE,,, A WELL TRAINED ,,HIGHLY INTELLIGENT ,, quick thinking nation..

Too me they do not.

India has nothing to worry about Pakistan is too busy fighting each other.

__________________________________

NOW CHINA they are a massive threat..

If you want to see success the autocratic way i suggest you look at CHINA both politically & economically which leads to very powerful growing military.

Where as the Pakistans talk and chest beat alot " we are brave, we are better trained,, we can nuke you. THE CHINEASE JUST SMILE AND NOD THEIR HEADS.

Behind their pleasant demeanour is a cold calculated confident nation. They are planning to take INDIA down.. to become the ASIAN only super power.

WITHOUT massive Western support India cannot handle CHINA today..

I think we found the winner for the biggest indian troll in this thread

 

[sasuke]

I think the only reason (okay there are two.. one being energy corridor!) that China keeps spoon feeding Pakistan is that it wants to play against India.... thats the only reason. But the question is how long and it do this thing and how much is it willing to spend?

The world has become much more dynamic that what is was before ... It would take a decade or in fact couple of decade to fall from a super power to a utterly bankrupt nation.

In the mean time ... all India has to do is ... keep the flow ... maintain the present status quo and just see how things work out!

In the end .... ALLL is and will be WELL

ps: I like the term ChiPak ... chipak chipak ... lolz

 

[CardSharp]

i do not agree..

lets first looks deep into chinese economically :: people only look at the GDP as a pillor of economic growth , but in case of china , a very large portion of the GDP comes from the units of the multinational companies having their menufecturing plants in china exporting thier goods worldwide therefore a large amount of the money actually belongs to those multinational companies and goes to their pockets only..
therefore it is always reffered that chinese growth story is export focus ..

looks deep into chinese military :: as soon one open a topic on comparission of india-china military , people will jump in to say that china has upper edge in quantity....but in any future conflict between the two will be dominate by air power....china have over 1000 fighter planes but do they realy worth a fight over himalayas ?...over half of them don't have the range to cross over into indian territory and then what they let with ,few hundred su-30mkk and few hundred J-10s..and in next few year when IAF going to operate a massive ands deadly fleat of MMRCA , LCA , SU-30MKI and PAK-FA , ...what china will left with J-11 only ....russians not selling them high end tech due to copy right voilations , and i don't think US or Europe will sell them either...

Lack of gear is not the Indian army's problem. What Indian army suffer from is, (just my opinion), an destructive Hindu ethos or by another phrase "panipat syndrome. I've found it hard before to put into words what I find troubling about the Indian army and why I held the belief that it is not an effective armed forces, (again my opinion) but then I found a passage in a history book that summarized my feelings.

This passage saved me the trouble of trying to put my ideas to paper, something that I was reluctant to do because, to do so, smacked of ,to me, my nationalistic bias. But since the author is a decorated officer of the Indian army who served in 1962 and the "Panipat syndrome" was a phrase coined by Srinivas Kumar Sinha also a decorated and distinguished soldier and statemen, I think I can pardon myself of some of my bias.

The pertinent passages is begins in page one and goes to page two.

and if you wish to read the full text ....

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ous-action-pla-lessons-sino-indian-war-5.html

and here is the a description of the Panipat Syndrome

It appears we suffer from the Panipat Syndrome — lack of strategic vision, remaining unprepared for dealing with crises and a refusal to learn from the past.
We have blundered from one folly to another and have repeatedly scored self-goals in Kashmir

- Srinivas Kumar Sinha

and here is the full article.

S.K. Sinha | The Asian Age

 

[DesiGuy]

i don't know why. but i feel like china Pakistan relations are fading away.

 

[misterme2]

Lack of gear is not the Indian army's problem. What Indian army suffer from is, (just my opinion), an destructive Hindu ethos or by another phrase "panipat syndrome. I've found it hard before to put into words what I find troubling about the Indian army and why I held the belief that it is not an effective armed forces, (again my opinion) but then I found a passage in a history book that summarized my feelings.

This passage saved me the trouble of trying to put my ideas to paper, something that I was reluctant to do because, to do so, smacked of ,to me, my nationalistic bias. But since the author is a decorated officer of the Indian army who served in 1962 and the "Panipat syndrome" was a phrase coined by Srinivas Kumar Sinha also a decorated and distinguished soldier and statemen, I think I can pardon myself of some of my bias.

The pertinent passages is begins in page one and goes to page two.

and if you wish to read the full text ....

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ous-action-pla-lessons-sino-indian-war-5.html

and here is the a description of the Panipat Syndrome


- Srinivas Kumar Sinha

and here is the full article.

S.K. Sinha | The Asian Age

Thanks I really appreciate your insight. I agree with you a 100% our Army has always been backwards to a degree due to lack of vision. I mean just look at arms procurement over 3 decades and it paints a chilling picture. There was no strategic depth and complete lack of planning. General Kapoor in my opinion is one of the worst generals we ever had. Forget about the present corruption scandal he is involved with, but if you look at his role as a general, he completely lacked strategic thinking. He wanted the Indian army to invest in 1000's of useless junk tanks while tanks aren;t as effective as they were in the old days. They can be and are neutralized by new weapons. I lived in bangalore for 3 years back in 1998-2000 and I really enjoyed my experience in India but at the same time, I saw a lot of problems. Smart and effective ppl will always be sidelined in India, in order for them to shine they have to push mountains. I remember during my stay in India, I used to frequent 3-5 star hotels in Bangalore. During one of my visits, I saw a Chinese general. I didn't know who he was but I knew he had a decent rank. He was surrounded by interpreters and security. He was sitting down on a chair by himself. I went to him and sat down in front of him, and asked him why China and India cannot get along. Our ppl have so much in common and traded for centuries. He was surprised and taken aback. He looked around in disbelief (lol I guess security sucks) and I asked him if he spoke English. He said a little. And then he answered me, its not your ppl but your government. I asked what could we do, and he said nothing! I kinda of lost it at that moment, and I thanked him for his time. But before I left, I said Indians always fight but beware when and if you attack, it will unite us! I walked off and I saw him and an interpreter laughing. As I walked away, some gov't official asked who I was. I told a nobody but I started telling him, China is not trying to be our friend. Either we make an effort or we pray to the Gods. He laughed but when I told him there were so many examples of inefficiency and lack of vision, his attitude changed. I was trying to help but he wanted proof. I told him I am 19 yrs old and an American citizen. I can't join the INdian army, and I can't easily become a citizen but you want proof. What India lacks is folks willing to train and give continuous input. Your reference to this guy Sinha opened my eyes because I felt I was the only person who saw this. Oh as for the chinese general, I didn't know who he was until I saw a pic on PK defense, he is the current PLA general. I don't know the name but he is tall and quite stocky. I thought I may be mistaken because this meeting between us took lace yrs ago, but I would never forget his face. I still gotta respect him though. He told me what the problem is and still is. Our f--ing gov't. Congress is doing great but for anyone including Rahul to think they deserve this seat based on family heritage. Keep dreaming. We are fools to vote this incompetent prick to PM. None of the parties till recently were placing effective ad qualified candidates till MM Singh. Sry to my Indian Bros but the truth hurts.....and you can only correct problems if you listen to criticism and then do something about it.

 

[CardSharp]

Thanks I really appreciate your insight. I agree with you a 100% our Army has always been backwards to a degree due to lack of vision. I mean just look at arms procurement over 3 decades and it paints a chilling picture. There was no strategic depth and complete lack of planning. General Kapoor in my opinion is one of the worst generals we ever had. Forget about the present corruption scandal he is involved with, but if you look at his role as a general, he completely lacked strategic thinking. He wanted the Indian army to invest in 1000's of useless junk tanks while tanks aren;t as effective as they were in the old days. They can be and are neutralized by new weapons. I lived in bangalore for 3 years back in 1998-2000 and I really enjoyed my experience in India but at the same time, I saw a lot of problems. Smart and effective ppl will always be sidelined in India, in order for them to shine they have to push mountains. I remember during my stay in India, I used to frequent 3-5 star hotels in Bangalore. During one of my visits, I saw a Chinese general. I didn't know who he was but I knew he had a decent rank. He was surrounded by interpreters and security. He was sitting down on a chair by himself. I went to him and sat down in front of him, and asked him why China and India cannot get along. Our ppl have so much in common and traded for centuries. He was surprised and taken aback. He looked around in disbelief (lol I guess security sucks) and I asked him if he spoke English. He said a little. And then he answered me, its not your ppl but your government. I asked what could we do, and he said nothing! I kinda of lost it at that moment, and I thanked him for his time. But before I left, I said Indians always fight but beware when and if you attack, it will unite us! I walked off and I saw him and an interpreter laughing. As I walked away, some gov't official asked who I was. I told a nobody but I started telling him, China is not trying to be our friend. Either we make an effort or we pray to the Gods. He laughed but when I told him there were so many examples of inefficiency and lack of vision, his attitude changed. I was trying to help but he wanted proof. I told him I am 19 yrs old and an American citizen. I can't join the INdian army, and I can't easily become a citizen but you want proof. What India lacks is folks willing to train and give continuous input. Your reference to this guy Sinha opened my eyes because I felt I was the only person who saw this. Oh as for the chinese general, I didn't know who he was until I saw a pic on PK defense, he is the current PLA general. I don't know the name but he is tall and quite stocky. I thought I may be mistaken because this meeting between us took lace yrs ago, but I would never forget his face. I still gotta respect him though. He told me what the problem is and still is. Our f--ing gov't. Congress is doing great but for anyone including Rahul to think they deserve this seat based on family heritage. Keep dreaming. We are fools to vote this incompetent prick to PM. None of the parties till recently were placing effective ad qualified candidates till MM Singh. Sry to my Indian Bros but the truth hurts.....and you can only correct problems if you listen to criticism and then do something about it.

Thank you for sharing your very interesting experience. I want to make this clear, criticism of one's own country doesn't mean necessarily mean a lack of patriotism, but rather it is the only road to improvement, (in my opinion). And I want to say that my criticism of the IA isn't out of a sense of superiority or gloating but just a vision of what I think should be done if I had an interest in India's security.

Patriotism is a dangerous drug. It numbs the people to what is really needed on crucial but sensitive topics like one's own armed forces.

 

[PakSher]

HUmm , i can understand man, u always need to keep reminding yourself that you are brave . Because you guys have been losing all the wars. We Indians are not under pressure because we believe in action . Let me give you examples of your bravery:-

1. We took half Kashmir , what you did brave boy
2. Indians broke your "Brave" country and you did nothing
3. We took Siachin, you did nothing but when you tried to capture kargil, you got a nice spanking.

So brave boy keep reminding yourself that you are brave . and best of luck from my side.

(01) Lets get this straight, you took all of Kashmir on August 15th, 1947. We defeated the retreating Indian Army in the 1948 War while capturing 22% Of Azad Kashmir.

(02) We broker India is 3 pieces, actually 4 but Junagarh was taken.

(03) Kargil was a withdrawl by Nawaz Sharif bowing to western pressure, but he paid for it by a military coup against his government.

(04) Yes, 1965 we captured 9% more of Kashmir and renamed it Azad Kashmir. I love that word "AZAD KASHMIR"

Please go ready history not the Indian or Pakistan history and look at the map in 1947 of Kashmir and then Kashmir after the 1948 and 1965 Wars. Indian was beaten back loosing territory in both wars.

(05) The size of the PAF in 1965 was 120 aircraft and PAF shot down 122 IAF craft, 2 more than its size. After the war Air Marshall invited the Indian IAF Chief to come and count thee PAF aircraft physcially, the invitation was declined. On the eve of the 1965 War, Indian Generals were joking that they will be having tea at the GHQ tomorrow in Rawalpindi, but actually they ended up hiding in trenches in the Indian GHQ. Salute to the Pakistani Army suicide bombers whole dug themselves and hid and lay in sand/mud and blew themselves up when Indian tanks rolled in, causing havoc on Chwinda. Long Live the Pakistani Army Infantry Divisions and the blood of the soldiers. Tributes to major Aziz Bhatti Shaheed who defended BRB Canal and beat the Indian back and defended Lahore.

Regarding Siachin, it is another tale of Hindu (baghal may churee mo may Ram Ram), but the Pakistan Army confronted Indians in Siachin and the Indians are still sitting where they were in 1984.

We are coming up with a new strategy Ind-Ind. It is India always crying and wining over its defeats.

India despite its big army does still poop in its shalwar when they think of Pakistan Armed Forces.

 

[Salik]

I have been advocate of the idea that Pakistan, China and India are supposed to come closer and form a troika. The term Chipak is incomplete, when it completes it becomes 'Chipakind' and that sounds more balanced.

Ok, there is a fan mechanism, as explained below:

One blade of the fan pushes the next blade and that second blade pushes the third one, thus the last blade pushes the first in circular motion making a complete circle.

Pakistan, China and India have a unique equation and their relationship can work in fan mechanism, throwing all troubles out in circular motion.

Pakistan ceded some area of land to China. China will cede some area of land to India and India will cede some area of land to Pakistan.

Notwithstanding previous claims or historical background, what you have in your control you give to other. It is practical and tangible. Nothing is for free so no one's ego is hurt.