TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Turkey isn't starting from scratch, it been developing turbofans and components for several different projects.

Tusaş Engine Industries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Licensed engines[edit]​

• General Electric T700 (T700-TEI-701D variant) for the T-70, a local variant of the S-70 Black Hawk[22][23][24]
• General Electric F110 engines[25]
• LHTEC T800 turboshaft engines for rotary wing applications such as the T-129 Atak[26][27][better source needed]

Parts and modules[edit]​

• CFM International LEAP[28]
• General Electric GEnx[29][30]
• CFM International CFM56[31]
• General Electric GE90[32]
• General Electric GE9X[33]
• General Electric T700 (T700-TEI-701D variant)[22]

License manufacturing is a different thing indians also licenese manufacture Russian Al-31FP engines of Su30MKI in huge numbers and they’re doing it for last 20 years but it’s entirely different from their Kaveri turbofan engine which they developed on their own from scratch and it took them 40 years to develop this 81kN Turbofan engine it’s design is inspired by western engines because Russian engines are fuel guzzlers and produce a lot of heat signature though they’re better than western engines in terms of strength of the materials used , components of Russian engines don’t break easily

Heat signauture and high maintenance cost on Russian engines is the reason why India is not using Russian engines in their indigenously developed jets and since Kaveri engine failed to produce 90kN thrust they have started developing a new 6th generation engine of 120kN thrust but it’s not from scratch like Kaveri they will utilize all the technologies they developed in last 40 years of continuous and extensive research this time they’re likely to collaborate with a French or British engine manufacturer.
It’s important to note that these western engine manufacturers will transfer technology to India once they have realized that india is close to develop it’s own hot core section of the turbofan engine indigenously which i think India can do atleast for a 91kN engine

 

[Celestyal]

Looks like it's made of a composite of glass and aluminium and composites
It's extremely shiny it looks like a pearl
Particularly the last 2 pics

It looks amazing in the light no doubt about it

Can some one tell me why is the inside of the place blue ?

The aircraft's skin is mostly composite. With some tiny exceptions...

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

The aircraft's skin is mostly composite. With some tiny exceptions...

All modern aircrafts skin are made up of 90% composites older aircrafts like F16 for example is made up of Aluminum alloy
Carbon composite is light in weight has less RCS and it’s also strong and doesn’t get damaged as easily as the metal does

 

[VkdIndian]

Remember what I posted in earlier post. Step by step

Yes.
It is step by step. A long road that beacons the brave.

 

[dBSPL]

Stay in topic, pls.

 

[GiantPanda]

Turkey would need an engine for the prototype and initial production run until the TAEC project with RR comes to fruition.

They had planned for the F110 for that development phase but with politics they'll need to look for an equivalent engine. It is a heavy class engine so available replacements are really limited to the AL-31 and the WS-10. French M88 and British EJ200 are medium.

Getting stable supplies of that initial engine is critical so that you can develop the airframe and work out the init production process while you wait for the local engine. Unfortunately stability is political. Turkey needs to negotiate around some touchy geopolitics. If the F110 remains embargoed, the only replacements in that class is in Russia and China.

 

[Falcon26]

You cannot put a country like India who never powered anything with a turbofan and has just that one project with China who has a turbofan industry powering hundreds of frontline fighters.

India has not even created a turbojet that powered an aircraft or drone. There is no comparison what so ever.

And you have the nerve to say India and China are struggling in the same way?

I can post any number of planes flying on Chinese jet engines. You cannot post even one aircraft flying on an Indian one. So please have some sense of reality.

WS-10
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WS-20
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WS-13
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WP-13
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Indians mention china to feel good about themselves. In reality there’s no comparison. Compared to China, India is 10x poorer, 100x less advanced & 1000x dysfunctional.

 

[hyperman]

License manufacturing is a different thing indians also licenese manufacture Russian Al-31FP engines of Su30MKI

Thats not accurate, India receives the su-31 parts in knockdown kits along with the engines, and the engines return to Russia for Servicing. this is very different from license building an engine. TEI is a subcontractor to GE, they manufacture parts for the engine and produce and refurbish the engines. Its not at all comparable to the Su-30mki deal with the Russians.

they’re better than western engines in terms of strength of the materials used , components of Russian engines don’t break easily

I see you don't know wtf you are talking about. lol Russian engines are notorious for not being durable, and being needing to be serviced more frequently. For some reason the only reference you guys have to Russian military equipment is the analogy of the ak-47, where you think everything Russia builds is durable or whatever. lol

 

[hyperman]

I can post any number of planes flying on Chinese jet engines. You cannot post even one aircraft flying on an Indian one. So please have some sense of reality.

He is going to cite the French Licensed engine(Safran Ardiden "shakti") for a helicopter and claim it as indigenous. lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safran_Ardiden

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

What about turbo pop ? Canada china us uk ?


We need a flying test bed .
Both India and Turkey to make the engine we can't depend on others for this if mod was intelligent we would have already converted our illushin aircraft.
Do you know which countries have flying test beds ?

India already has developed a turbofan engine called kaveri but it will be used to power drones and trainer jets as it generates a wet thrust of 81kN only India will start an entirely new engine program and that would be a game changer because the target is to achieve a wet thrust of 120-130kN but suppose even it fails to achieve this target and generates 100-110kN that will still be more than enough to Power LCA Tejas jets
Flying test beds are expensive , India does have some flying test beds The GTRE (Gas Turbine Research Establishment) operates a Modified IL-76 which it uses as a Flying Test Bed at Gromov. It tested the indigenous Kaveri engine with the engine running right from the take-off to landing, flying for a period of over one hour up to an altitude of 6,000 metres. The engine helped the IL-76 aircraft test bed fly at speeds of 0.6 mach in its maiden flight, and upto a max of 1 mach at its peak.
But still India sends Kaveri engine to Russia for testing maybe the Russian flying test beds are more advanced and can test engine at high altitude

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

He is going to cite the French Licensed engine(Safran Ardiden "shakti") for a helicopter and claim it as indigenous. lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safran_Ardiden

Shakti is a turboshaft engine for helicopters not for fighter jets
India has developed a turboshaft engine called HTSE-1200 to replace these engines currently it’s going through trials it successfully completed High altitude cold weather trials at Leh.
Only few people know that Indian made HTFE -25 has been envisaged as a replacement for the dour Mk.811 turbofans currently powering the SEPECAT Jaguar close air support and nuclear strike role deep-strike fighter jets.
HTFE-25 has also successfully completed High altitude cold weather trials at Leh.
Now coming to kaveri engine it’s true that Kaveri engine is yet to be installed on an aircraft but so far India has developed 9 prototypes of Kaveri engine and it’s going through testing in Russia the maximum thrust generated is 81kN which is much less than the target of 91kN they are trying to improve it only time will tell whether they succeed or not but even if it fails achieve the target it can still be used to power drones and trainer jets
but the most important thing here is that now India is working on the next engine program for AMCA and now the target is to achieve 130kN thrust suppose the engine fails to achieve this target and achieves 110kN thrust in that case it wouldn’t be able to power AMCA but it will easily replace the GE F-404 engines of Tejas aircraft just like the M88 engine of saffran replaced the GE engines of rafales.
It is important to note that since India has already invested 40 years of time and millions of dollars in developing Kaveri engine from scratch the next engine they design would take much less time because they know the basics now

 

[Falcon26]

Moderators please clean up this thread and remove the distracting India related posts. @Deino @LeGenD

 

[aziqbal]

seems like its going to be a HUGE year for Turkey in 2023

TFX, Hurjet, ATAK II and Kızılelma jet powered UCAV

Wow!

 

[Oublious]

stop with indian engines, this is TFX....

 

[Ali_Baba]

Here some better images! ... and I'm still speechless!

View attachment 900008View attachment 900007View attachment 900006View attachment 900005View attachment 900004View attachment 900003View attachment 900002

For a first build "prototype" the build quality looks fantastic !!!!!!!

It will only become better with time as well. Looking forward to the first flight !!!

The Turks were smart and used their involvement in the F16, F35 programmes to build the physical infrastructure to start the journey of building their own fighter. They in parallel improved their university-education to become world class to allow them to create the next generation of local engineers who can work on designing their own products. Leaving the F35 programme was the best thing to happen to Turkish Aerospace industries interms of building a local ecosystem.

An interesting compare and contrast of why Pakistan has failed to "take" off and why Turkey has been able to take off ( hint - the poor quality universities and 2 year BSc "engineering degrees" are part of the problem ).