Terrorist and killer Narendra Modi on TIME 2012 list is a shame

[shuntmaster]

In 1947.. 30% of Pakistani Population was non-Muslim and 12% of Indian population was Muslim. Today only 3% of Pakistani population is non-Muslim, whereas almost 17% of Indian population is Muslim.
The numbers and facts tell the complete story. Whereas Muslims in India are thriving, Pakistan has systematically committed genocide and ethnic cleansing of non-Muslims in the last 65 years. The oppression of non-Muslims is so deep rooted amd institutionalised in the Pakistani society, that they don't even realise that there is a continuous genocide going on. The post-Ghodhra riots in Gujarat happened for a few days and a few thousands got killed or injured or displaced and is a one of the very few communal incidents in India in 65 years. On the other side, 100's of millions have been victims of the genocide in Pakistan every year for past 65years. The Pakistanis didn't even spare their own co-religionists in East-Pakistan and committed genocide on 100's of thousands in 1971.
Apart from this Pakistan has sponsored Jihadi terrorism all over the world and India has been the biggest victim with 1000's of Indians killed. Still not a single Pakistani has been even investigated for all these crimes against humanity, forget about punishing those criminals.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The bolded part says what kind of ideology you will be having, might be you should have travelled along with him when he created the divide between muslims and hindus just for reason of become a PM of a independent state. Nehru and Jinha are two fools who divided INDIA for their personal ambition.

My ideology you could have asked and got from me without exercising your forensic talents. I am secular, democratic, republican, and between liberal and social democrat. Scandinavian socialist would probably describe me closely.

From the rest of your post, it is obvious that you are ill-read and uneducated, and base your opinions on the prejudices transmitted to you. For your information, until 1946, neither he nor the AIML demanded an independent dominion; they wanted a constitutional solution within a united India. In 1946, during the visit of the Cabinet Mission, both the AIML and the INC agreed to the Plan put forth by the Mission, but within days, on the 10th of July, if I remember correctly, Nehru torpedoed it by announcing at a press conference that members nominated to the constituent assembly from any of the three constituent groupings would be free to vote as individuals, rather than being tied to the programme of their parent grouping. It was at this point that Jinnah reluctantly understood that the Congress would not allow a solution within one country, and agreed to partition. Partition was imposed by Congress, and it was not Nehru alone but most of the Congress leadership (Azad was an honourable exception) who opted for it in preference to having Jinnah and the AIML opposing them in a new, post-British set-up.

Please be sure of your facts before exhibiting your ignorance.

And I am proud to follow Jinnah's stark secularism. It is another thing that his own country abandoned it within months of his death.

 

[lem34]

You are absolutely and completely wrong.


2. Your delight and surprise in finding Indians whose thinking you can appreciate is due to lack of exposure. More than three years ago, some of us - quite unconnected with each other, from various walks of life - went to Pakistani sites to find what kind of people would send murderers in to slaughter over a hundred civilians, men, women and children. To our utter astonishment, we found - on All Things Pakistan, and on PakTeaHouse - that Pakistanis were like us, and shared the same views and values. We found it difficult to remain bitter and enraged (although it still hurts intensely) in the light of how they responded to the Bombay massacres, and in the light of the daily carnage that they themselves went through, at the hands of the same savages and animals. On the other side, it was a shock to be told, within a few months of our contributions and interactions, that we were as much members of the family as any Pakistani.

.

You are probably right I count some Indians as very close friends in the UK. In fact the only reason that at times I respond in the way I do is cos I know we Indians and Pakistanis have so many problems and issues similar and on pdf all I get from the majority of Indians is how India is incredible and Pakistan is a failed state. Assertions that I flatly reject. Its good to hear that there are others like you

 

[Joe Shearer]

In 1947.. 30% of Pakistani Population was non-Muslim and 12% of Indian population was Muslim. Today only 3% of Pakistani population is non-Muslim, whereas almost 17% of Indian population is Muslim.
The numbers and facts tell the complete story. Whereas Muslims in India are thriving, Pakistan has systematically committed genocide and ethnic cleansing of non-Muslims in the last 65 years. The oppression of non-Muslims is so deep rooted in institutionalised in the Pakistani society, that they don't even realise that there is a continuous genocide going on. The post-Ghodhra riots in Gujarat happened for a few days and a few thousands got killed or injured or displaced and is a one of the very few communal incidents in India in 65 years. On the other side, 100's of millions have been victims of the genocide in Pakistan every year for past 65years. The Pakistanis didn't even spare their own co-religionists in East-Pakistan and committed genocide on 100's of thousands in 1971.
Apart from this Pakistan has sponsored Jihadi terrorism all over the world and India has been the biggest victim with 1000's of Indians killed. Still not a single Pakistani has been even investigated for all these crimes against humanity, forget about punishing those criminals.

Please read this, memorise it and repeat it 200 times before going to sleep:

TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT.

 

[lem34]

You are absolutely and completely wrong.



4. Out of that interaction, we formed a private mailing list, which has now crossed 13,000 posts. Of the members, half are Pakistani - Punjabis, Pathans and Muhajir - half are Indian - Bengali Hindu, Punjabi Sirdars and Karnataka Muslim. We discuss everything under the Sun, almost, although there was a near-riot when the youngest member posted a video from YouTube of a Pathan film which had an indescribable dance. If I posted it here, I would be banned permanently. The eldest member, slightly older than I, nearly swallowed his tonsils laughing, then gave our young ex-PAF member a thundering scold, finishing by asking where he could see more. The richest of us sends the others books for Christmas.

.

Would be happy to contribute if I was invited

4.

They think I am a lunatic to be on PDF, even my ex-PAF friend. They don't believe that there are many refugees from PTH lurking among the Pakistani members, even, I have reason to suspect, among the moderators.

You are not a lunatic. You do provide a reality check for some of us here

 

[Joe Shearer]

You are probably right I count some Indians as very close friends in the UK. In fact the only reason that at times I respond in the way I do is cos I know we Indians and Pakistanis have so many problems and issues similar and on pdf all I get from the majority of Indians is how India is incredible and Pakistan is a failed state. Assertions that I flatly reject. Its good to hear that there are others like you

Please permit me to modify your statement: "....there are many others like you "

 

[lem34]

You are absolutely and completely wrong.



5. So as far as being outnumbered is concerned, think again. Look at my statistics. Most of the thanks have been posted by Indians. Of your members, there are a significant number even as I write this who appreciate the point of view I have expressed. We Indian liberal members are not fanboys, nor are we that even more poisonous piece of evil, the Sangh Parivar professional trouble maker. It is they who are outnumbered 5 to 1. They know it, and that is why they scream, instead of speaking in civilised tones.

good to hear

 

[notsuperstitious]

Guys leave aside why Jinnah is Joe Shearer's hero, its irrelevant. Obviously you look at the same person differently, like we do on Modi here too.

This is a problem with making heroes out of people, it would be much much easier and constructive to agree on principles instead.

 

[lem34]

6. I am exasperated by fanboys of all four sorts - Pakistani, Indian, Chinese and Bangladeshi - and am sad to discover a fourth category, although they did give me enormous fun till I reminded myself of my age, and the unsuitability of teasing young people the way I was doing. As far as you are concerned, Aryan_B, there are times when I want very urgently to kick your backside, but then I think of D_a_n, Bloody Civilian, Adnann and Naveed, and Raza and Yasser and make myself take a deep breath and count to ten. It usually works.

.

My only mitigation is that I am provoked. Find it difficult to rise above it or turn the other cheek

 

[ashokdeiva]

My ideology you could have asked and got from me without exercising your forensic talents. I am secular, democratic, republican, and between liberal and social democrat. Scandinavian socialist would probably describe me closely.

From the rest of your post, it is obvious that you are ill-read and uneducated, and base your opinions on the prejudices transmitted to you. For your information, until 1946, neither he nor the AIML demanded an independent dominion; they wanted a constitutional solution within a united India. In 1946, during the visit of the Cabinet Mission, both the AIML and the INC agreed to the Plan put forth by the Mission, but within days, on the 10th of July, if I remember correctly, Nehru torpedoed it by announcing at a press conference that members nominated to the constituent assembly from any of the three constituent groupings would be free to vote as individuals, rather than being tied to the programme of their parent grouping. It was at this point that Jinnah reluctantly understood that the Congress would not allow a solution within one country, and agreed to partition. Partition was imposed by Congress, and it was not Nehru alone but most of the Congress leadership (Azad was an honourable exception) who opted for it in preference to having Jinnah and the AIML opposing them in a new, post-British set-up.

Please be sure of your facts before exhibiting your ignorance.

And I am proud to follow Jinnah's stark secularism. It is another thing that his own country abandoned it within months of his death.

That is the difference, one leader of Pakistan was secular where as his followers were not, but one leader in INDIA(Nehru) was self centered and non secular but the people as a nation are secular except a few wachkos here and there. Jinha should have proposed something acceptable or should have persuaded the INC for the rights of Muslism with logical argument, rather than thinking that he will go for new country which will become a breeding ground for international terrorist 65 years later its creation.

 

[lem34]

You are absolutely and completely wrong.



Those of us who think all Pakistanis are identical, or all Indians are identical, or all Chinese or Bangladeshis or Iranians are identical, are idiots beyond redemption. I refuse to waste time on these dimwits. May they be nominated to the TIME list, for all I care. Looks like that list has more than one specimen. I hope you come out of their ranks in time to salvage your sanity, and don't lapse into that lunacy in future.

With people like you around it will encourage me.

 

[Subramanian]

My ideology you could have asked and got from me without exercising your forensic talents. I am secular, democratic, republican, and between liberal and social democrat. Scandinavian socialist would probably describe me closely.

From the rest of your post, it is obvious that you are ill-read and uneducated, and base your opinions on the prejudices transmitted to you. For your information, until 1946, neither he nor the AIML demanded an independent dominion; they wanted a constitutional solution within a united India. In 1946, during the visit of the Cabinet Mission, both the AIML and the INC agreed to the Plan put forth by the Mission, but within days, on the 10th of July, if I remember correctly, Nehru torpedoed it by announcing at a press conference that members nominated to the constituent assembly from any of the three constituent groupings would be free to vote as individuals, rather than being tied to the programme of their parent grouping. It was at this point that Jinnah reluctantly understood that the Congress would not allow a solution within one country, and agreed to partition. Partition was imposed by Congress, and it was not Nehru alone but most of the Congress leadership (Azad was an honourable exception) who opted for it in preference to having Jinnah and the AIML opposing them in a new, post-British set-up.

Please be sure of your facts before exhibiting your ignorance.

And I am proud to follow Jinnah's stark secularism. It is another thing that his own country abandoned it within months of his death.

Fair enough,

but our country dont have the luxury to follow scandinavian socialism and all.

I dont hate/love Jinnah personally,personally i find him to be a great articulate man who used the power vaccum in the muslim league to win some fame and was successful enough to be the quaid e azam of a country.

Look at things pragmatically, even though the blame falls squarely in the hands of Nehru for partition if he had agreed to the cabinet mission plan and make India a loose confederacy,we would have been Balkanized and ended up doing a great civil war,perfect situation for Russia and the West to do cold war games and play around.

it is only because of partition,a huge entity like India exists and brings peace to this region and relative non interference from the west and russia.

Jinnah ll obviously be a hero for the idealists because he knew how to say the right words at the right time but a real leader is one who fore goes fame and hero worship to give the people the right solution.

Jinnah's values can be best described as how his people gave it up no sooner than he died,which talks about how the people(the rich and the powerful of Punjab,Delhi and Lucknow) used Jinnah and how he used them in return.

Nobody hates pakistanis here,i have a lot of friends myself. But all this luxury that we enjoy is all personal,whereas all opinions here are personal.

 

[lem34]

Nope I am debating, I cannot keep on pasting the same s**t again and again like you Elite members do!

And how were you debating by referring to a thread that I posted that you didn't like. A thread by the way with which I stand. The only thing I accept is that we Indians and Pakistani' s are in the same boat and neither is glittering as we like to convince each other

 

[ashokdeiva]

Please read this, memorise it and repeat it 200 times before going to sleep:

TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT.

agreed, but you have to realize that only when a wrong is commited by a person, he personaly evolves to make sure the same does not happen again. as far as Gujarat 2002 riot is considered, you are accusing him of inaction, but if its not true, he is not liable for your argument, and if what you say is true then he has evolved and made sure the same mistake will not happen again for the last 10 years.

 

[lem34]

Please.

Like my hero, Jinnah, I believe first and foremost in the rule of law.

.

I was inspired to do a LLB by him and I wish we had leaders like him today.