Tejas for UAE ?

[Ultima Thule]

Your words doesn't mean anything...gimme a source

Rgat i m saying you sell it alone or without a Russian permission its a JV isn't @Papa Dragon

 

[CriticalThought]

I've only quoted a fraction of the indigenous radars developed by our institutes. There are a ton more and few of em are mentioned in this link
https://www.quora.com/Is-India-developing-working-on-AESA-radars

Coming to Uttam, this has been in the making for a while. Just because you blatantly spew negativity with no concrete evidence that it is an Israeli rip off doesn't make up for an argument. Come up with source where you can actually prove Israeli blue prints have been used to develop it where you're argument stands valid

Why would Indian research organizations disclose the true nature of their projects when hundreds of millions of dollars of funding is at stake? So we need to look at circumstantial and empirical evidence.

What is the timeframe for a nation to develop indigenous airborne radar technology? The answer is decades. When was the first airborne AESA radar made anywhere in the world?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_electronically_scanned_array

The first airborne series production AESA was the EL/M-2075 Phalcon on a Chilean Air Force Boeing 707 that entered service in 1994.

When was the Indian project started?

In 2003, the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) carried out a joint study of the system-level requirements and feasibility of development for an Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEWAC) system.[1] The government then approved the project for the development of the AEWAC system by DRDO. Primary responsibility for the project was with DRDO's Bengaluru-based Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS), which led the design, system integration and testing of the system. LRDE was responsible for the design of the radar array. Defence Electronics Application Laboratory, based in Dehradun, was responsible for the Data Link and Communication Systems for AEW&CS.

The DRDO AEWACS programme aims to deliver three radar-equipped surveillance aircraft to the Indian Air Force. The aircraft platform selected was the Embraer ERJ 145. Three ERJ 145 were procured from Embraer at a cost of US $300 Million, including the contracted modifications to the airframe. The project goal was to deploy these AEW&C aircraft by 2013.[

Ten years is unrealistic for a project of this magnitude, if a country has no notable airborne radar in the past. I am not biased, I am looking at it without the lens of dogmatic nationalism. The very conceptualization of this project shows they had significant technology transfer in mind.

I have Russian friends who have given me the insider on many Chinese projects. According to them, even in 2018, there are Russian scientists and engineers in China receiving eye-wateringly high salaries who are behind some of the innovations you see. Some of my Chinese friends have admitted that the current high rate of completed projects has significant foreign inputs. So I have a realistic view of what it takes to pull off a project like this.

 

[ni8mare]

FYI, L&T makes the wings, Dynamatic Technologies makes the front fuselage, VEM Technologies makes the center fuselage, Alpha makes the rear fuselage and all these are private Indian firms. More components are expected to be outsourced to private Indian defense firms.

Indian Components:

1. Airframe and composites
2. Landing gear
3. Electronic warfare suite
4. Displays
5. Flight control system (Fly by wire system)
6. crash resistant self sealing fuel tanks.
7. valves, wires and plumbing.

Jointly Developed:

1. Radar : This is in joint development with Elta but a custom Radar for LCA as per Indian requirements
2. Targeting pods
3. LRUs : These are the brains of the aircraft and are quasi Indian. They use imported silicon Chips. However the actual circuit board, system design, standards for interface and the software are 100% Indian.
4. Missiles: Some are licence produced and others are fully Indian. Its a mix.

Fully imported:

1. Radar covering cone i.e the front cone section of the aircraft which is a quartz based structure imported from UK.
2. Engine from USA
3. Ejection seats
4. silicon semiconductor ICs

But recently, Uttam Radar has been integrated and tested on the LCA so you can count that in as well

Just because you did a green paint job on the JF with some cheap chinese paint and claimed it indigenous doesn't imply every country goes that way

Cool down , he is not bad mouthing Tejas,,

 

[ni8mare]

An indigenous AESA radar is not trivial. How much Israeli tech is hidden behind the Indian label? That's my question.

None.....

and there is substantial Israeli tech used in the plane

Can you provide source of 'substantial Israeli tech'?

 

[aman_rai]

Baki sab to thik h Magar yea bc HAL wale kaam kre to Na...
Nikammepan aur makkari me no1 h yea

 

[Ultima Thule]

Can you provide source of 'substantial Israeli tech'?

Radar, MFD, HMD etc etc @ni8mare

 

[ni8mare]

Borrowing blueprints and making superficial adjustments can pass as indigenously designed as well. You need to understand that fighter jet radars have a long history of evolution. Many processes, techniques, and algorithms are patented. For a country that doesn't even have a notable pulse-doppler radar to it's name, it is improbable that they will suddenly produce an AESA radar. It is not just about the T/R modules. The algorithms need to be developed through year's of practical testing in real world scenarios using real world ships, aircraft etc as targets.

Your post no 4 was unbiased and logical, but now you are being just jealous a**h***.........just because your country is incapable to make ANY kind of radar, doesn't mean india can't

Here is the patent for indian GaA T/R module
https://patents.google.com/patent/US6784837
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/39/47/a5/4249f9049192db/US6784837.pdf

For the people who cannot access

No of INDIAN AESA RADAR

Under Induction

1. Ashwini radar (18)

2. Arudhra 4D MPR (8)

3. Netra AWACS (2)

4. High power radar (12)

Under trials

1.UTTAM FCR

2. ADTCR

3. BMFR & BSR
(this couple with QRSAM for more https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/quick-reaction-missile-to-be-developed-by-bdl-and-drdo.428767/page-2)

4. ADFCR

Under development
1. AEWCS I (USHAS)

3 LR-MFR

4 AESA BASED INTEGRATED SENSOR SUITE OR ABISS For maritime patrol aircraft

STRATEGIC

1. LRTR (1000 km+)

2. Missile-Range Instrumentation Ships (MRIS): MOTR

3.M-MOTR

More on MIRS/MOTR
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indias-new-ballistic-missile-tracking-ship-shaping-up.507575/

Technology Under research and development

1.Digital AESA
2.GaN AESA

3.ADAPTIVE AESA

Other than the last two, all are ground based radars. This only reinforces my original argument. You guys don't have a credible history of radars for fighter jets, which is a whole different ball game.

Now your changing to goal post, no one said we are experience with airborne radar more specifically to say fighter jet....because for that we need our own fighter

Radar, MFD, HMD etc etc @ni8mare

Learn more about Tejas then come and have discussion..enough with spoon feeding

Your words doesn't mean anything...gimme a source

We cannot without russian permission Since IP stays with russia even though now we can make 86% of brahmos

which is why this being done

Ten years is unrealistic for a project of this magnitude, if a country has no notable airborne radar in the past. I am not biased, I am looking at it without the lens of dogmatic nationalism. The very conceptualization of this project shows they had significant technology transfer in mind.

Uttam is already integrated with Tejas for next two years it will undergo testing

AWACS-I to fly by less two year, so shall ABISS for MMMA then we'll talk

 

[CriticalThought]

Your post no 4 was unbiased and logical, but now you are being just jealous a**h***.........just because your country is incapable to make ANY kind of radar, doesn't mean india can't

Here is the patent for indian GaA T/R module
https://patents.google.com/patent/US6784837
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/39/47/a5/4249f9049192db/US6784837.pdf

For the people who cannot access

View attachment 507469

No of INDIAN AESA RADAR

Under Induction

1. Ashwini radar (18)

2. Arudhra 4D MPR (8)

3. Netra AWACS (2)

4. High power radar (12)
View attachment 507474 View attachment 507475


Under trials

1.UTTAM FCR

2. ADTCR

3. BMFR & BSR
(this couple with QRSAM for more https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/quick-reaction-missile-to-be-developed-by-bdl-and-drdo.428767/page-2)

4. ADFCR

View attachment 507473

Under development
1. AEWCS I (USHAS)

3 LR-MFR
View attachment 507476 View attachment 507477

4 AESA BASED INTEGRATED SENSOR SUITE OR ABISS For maritime patrol aircraft
View attachment 507478 View attachment 507479

STRATEGIC

1. LRTR (1000 km+)

2. Missile-Range Instrumentation Ships (MRIS): MOTR

View attachment 507481 View attachment 507484

3.M-MOTR

More on MIRS/MOTR
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indias-new-ballistic-missile-tracking-ship-shaping-up.507575/


Now your changing to goal post, no one said we are experience with airborne radar more specifically to say fighter jet....because for that we need our own fighter



You can put some sense into him as you like

We cannot without russian permission Since IP stays with russia even though now we can make 86% of brahmos

which is why this being done
View attachment 507490



AWACS-I to fly by less two year then we'll talk, so shall ABISS for MMMA

In your haste to call me a jealous whatever, you failed to follow the entire discussion. Go back and read again. From the beginning I have only raised the question of Indian capability around airborne radars. When I said:

An indigenous AESA radar is not trivial. How much Israeli tech is hidden behind the Indian label? That's my question.

it was in response to a post about the Tejas fighter. I was talking specifically about the Elbit radar, soon to be replaced by Uttam.

Now, a patent doesn't mean anything until and unless it has actually been challenged in court. But OK, let's give credit where credit is due. You guys hold the patent. But as I already said in the post you quoted, it's not just about the T/R modules. It's about the software, the algorithms behind the hardware. It's about having the necessary computation power, and the right detection and classification algorithms. And this takes a huge amount of time. Show me where you have:

1. An airborne testbed.
2. Airborne targets to provide realistic data.
3. Seaborne targets.
4. Land based targets.
5. Ability to synchronize various elements for a realistic test along with data gathering capability.
6. Patents/research papers on radar detection algorithms.

This stuff is not trivial and this is where any potential Israeli technology would come into play.

 

[ni8mare]

In your haste to call me a jealous whatever, you failed to follow the entire discussion. Go back and read again. From the beginning I have only raised the question of Indian capability around airborne radars. When I said:

it was in response to a post about the Tejas fighter. I was talking specifically about the Elbit radar, soon to be replaced by Uttam.

Elta 2052 is only for jaguar, there is no radar selected for Tejas even if 2052 selected it will only go to Tejas MK1A not MK1 , and UTTAM will go to MK2 always it was intended to so there is no question of israeli tech here, work on UTTAM started long before 2052 was selected for jaguar

Now, a patent doesn't mean anything until and unless it has actually been challenged in court. But OK, let's give credit where credit is due. You guys hold the patent.

Thank you....but looks like you don't like it deeeep down

But as I already said in the post you quoted, it's not just about the T/R modules. It's about the software, the algorithms behind the hardware. It's about having the necessary computation power, and the right detection and classification algorithms. And this takes a huge amount of time.

I have edit my post for new infos check them, check for algorithm post for LRMFR...and please we are good at code

Show me where you have:
1. An airborne testbed.

First NETRA AWACS is itself a testbed and will be kept by DRDO not to be given to IAF, there is reason why NETRA took so much time almost late by 4 year , besides this there is other testbed based on HS-748.

This one is ill fated try that we did attempted but it crashed along with scientist and pilot and project abandoned (Note this one was based on PD)

This one are for fighter jet radar, small radar segment and technology development

2. Airborne targets to provide realistic data.
3. Seaborne targets.
4. Land based targets.
5. Ability to synchronize various elements for a realistic test along with data gathering capability.
6. Patents/research papers on radar detection algorithms.

This stuff is not trivial and this is where any potential Israeli technology would come into play.

watch this

 

[Ultima Thule]

Learn more about Tejas then come and have discussion..enough with spoon feeding

Currently your Tejas have a version of EL/M-2032 or whatever you labeled it with Indian name, for MFD i was wrong its from France you manufacturing it at home but tech comes from France, HMD is also come from Israel you aren't currently capable for developing and manufacturing local HMD at home and these are real facts @ni8mare

Elta 2052 is only for jaguar, there is no radar selected for Tejas even if 2052 selected it will only go to Tejas MK1A not MK1 , and UTTAM will go to MK2 always it was intended to so there is no question of israeli tech here work on UTTAM started long before 2052 was selected for jaguar

Your uttam will be based on EL/M-2052,senior Indian members already except this reality @ni8mare

 

[CriticalThought]

Elta 2052 is only for jaguar, there is no radar selected for Tejas even if 2052 selected it will only go to Tejas MK1A not MK1 , and UTTAM will go to MK2 always it was intended to so there is no question of israeli tech here, work on UTTAM started long before 2052 was selected for jaguar



Thank you....but looks like you don't like it deeeep down


I have edit my post for new infos check them, check for algorithm post for LRMFR...and please we are good at code


First NETRA AWACS is itself a testbed and will be kept by DRDO not to be given to IAF, there is reason why NETRA took so much time almost late by 4 year , besides this there is other testbed based on HS-748.

This one is ill fated try that we did attempted but it crashed along with scientist and pilot and project abandoned (Note this one was based on PD)

This one are for fighter jet radar, small radar segment and technology development

watch this

Let me open your eyes for you. Here is where your airborne radar technology is coming from:

http://www.tejas.gov.in/technology/multi_mode_radar.html

The coherent pulse-Doppler Multi Mode Radar is designed to operate equally effectively in the Air to Air and Air to Surface domains. Jointly developed as an Indian – Israeli venture, it features multi-target Air to Air Track, Hi Resolution Synthetic Aperture Mapping and specialised Air to Sea modes. The radar facilitates all weather employment of a variety of Air to Air and Air to Surface Weaponry, and is the primary targeting sensor on the Tejas.

Atleast your government is more honest than you.

 

[thunderr]

Why this project gives me the feeling of HF 24 Marut project.Will it ever fly????

 

[Asimzranger]

Spy pic of Tejas in uae

Spoiler: pic

 

[ni8mare]

Let me open your eyes for you. Here is where your airborne radar technology is coming from:

http://www.tejas.gov.in/technology/multi_mode_radar.html

Changing the goal post again, who is talking about Hybrid MMR or indo-israeli JV PULSE DOPPLER radar

This is what you have said

An indigenous AESA radar is not trivial. How much Israeli tech is hidden behind the Indian label? That's my question.

Here it's you, who is leveling the indigenous AESA as israeli

Borrowing blueprints and making superficial adjustments can pass as indigenously designed as well. You need to understand that fighter jet radars have a long history of evolution. Many processes, techniques, and algorithms are patented. For a country that doesn't even have a notable pulse-doppler radar to it's name, it is improbable that they will suddenly produce an AESA radar.

Here you are questioning the capability of india in designing and fabricating indigenous AESA radar

After getting realising your mistake, you are changing the indigenous AESA argument to PD radar and that too without any source or evidence. We can have this argument all day/night but will not change the fact we CAN MAKE ANY KIND OF AESA now

Currently your Tejas have a version of EL/M-2032 or whatever you labeled it with Indian name, for MFD i was wrong its from France you manufacturing it at home but tech comes from France, HMD is also come from Israel you aren't currently capable for developing and manufacturing local HMD at home and these are real facts @ni8mare

Hybrid MMR or indo-israeli PULSE DOPPLER radar JV, with israeli processor and electronics but with indigenous front end, since on early days we lacked semiconductor foundry

Your uttam will be based on EL/M-2052,senior Indian members already except this reality @ni8mare

What you mean by 'will be '? UTTAM existed even before 2052 chosen for jaguar......which are being procured from isreal

And btw for how long you are going to keep on lying

This is UTTAM AESA

This is 2052

You see this below thats UTTAM AESA being integrated to TEJAS LSP 6 and NOT E/L 2052
how ever you people keep yourself in denial will help in sleeping though

Radar, MFD, HMD etc etc @ni8mare

Radar: Front end indian, back end israeli
MFD: Indian, by samtel (Just like my commode design is western however indian firms make them )
HMD: Israel is the ONLY on that make best HMD, even you friend china failed to do so

 

[Tps43]

@Moonlight this one is perfect