TAI chose it's partner on TF-X Project

[Deno]

I can not find any official statement about choosing Saab instead of Korean firm! It seems both are options yet, or may be I am wrong.

Actually now you mention it, I couldn't find any offical statement either... Site says that TAI bought a program called Flames and they are going to use it for their collaborative fighter aircraft design efforts with Saab. but there is no offical statement from TSK or Defence Ministry


Companies statement: TAI Purchases FLAMES Training

 

[what]

But what's done is done and cannot be undone.

As long as Turkey insists on the 50% stake, the best Turkey can have is Gripen T.

I thought we asked for 40 for Korea and Turkey each and 20 for I think it was Indonesia, in exchange you can also get our Atak chopper and build a few nuclear reactors on our soil, deal?

 

[Korean]

Saab is a proper choice too

proposal by Saab two years ago

That was meant for Korea. Saab has since focused on P.305, a single engine version.

@Korean Problem is, such an aircraft has no place in Turkish Air Force. F4 is a big aircraft and she'll be retired soon. So our plane must fill her shoes.

Turkish F-4 would be replaced by F-35.
TF-X is a long-term F-16 replacement.

If everything goes as planned in both project differences between KFX and SAAB/TAI will be same as F-16 and Gripen...

No, an F-18 and Gripen.

I can not find any official statement about choosing Saab instead of Korean firm! It seems both are options yet, or may be I am wrong.

Unofficially, Turkey's going 50:50 with Saab on the next version of Gripen, not necessarily the P.305 stealth model that Saab has been showing around.

Personnaly i would go for the KF-X but only with ToT and Equal share.

ToT is what Turkish engineers would gain developing it.

Equal share is no, the 51% was the lowest that Koreans would accept(29% for Turkey then), so the deal fell apart.

And can you give me some specifications on the KF-X please, Still havent figured out what generation fighter it will be, Heard from several other Korean Forumers that it was a 4.5th or 5th.

It depends on the block.

Block 1 is a non-full-stealth jet even with a stealthy exterior because of the lack of conformal weapons bay(a conformal fuel tank will be fitted in place of the CWB) and the radio emissions control. Indonesia's going for this version as they say they need the range more than a pair of CWBs.

Block 2 is a full stealth aircraft, adding the missing features necessary to obtain the full stealth status.

 

[cabatli_53]

But what's done is done and cannot be undone.

As long as Turkey insists on the 50% stake, the best Turkey can have is Gripen T.

What Turkey wants is to develop a new fighter jet which is designed/developed in accordance with own requirements (instead of funding a designed aircraft which Turkey don't have a saying in shape) by own engineers under a min. %50 ownership. The aircraft to be developed will also be opened for internation partners but Turkey wants itself as sole owner/or at least two equal owner which most of manufacturing processes have been carried out in Home, While Design processes are considered to be done with a more experienced partner institute in order to benefit from experiences...

I think SAAB is a good choice for designing a national fighter which will replace F-16.

 

[cabatli_53]

Besides, As a partner of TF-X, The desicion (twin or single engine) will be agreed on not only SAAB demands but also TAI's feasibility report and Turkish Army's requirements which is taken into consideration to develop national fighter jet.(Most probably, She will have single engine) We don't order a fighter jet from SAAB but designing own fighter under a cooperation with SAAB engineers.

According to officials, It was the reason of Turkey not to accept KF-X offer of Korea. They stated that Korea wants Turkey in KFX program just for decreasing the cost of a fighter project which is designed, (geat percentage) developed mostly by Korean engineers in accordance with S. Korea requirements...

 

[SOHEIL]

Damn I was kind of hoping it was us

Arabia !!!

How ???

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Having your own fighter jet, nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles is the only way to having an entirely independent foreign policy.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Having your own fighter jet, nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles are the only way to having an entirely independent foreign policy.

Exactly. Being (almost) fully dependent on foreign countries weakens our indigenous production and growth. I also heard that Turkey did not yet give the order the 100+ f35 yet as they are reconsidering buying them. The f-16s are still up to date and they will probably have a lifetime of 10+ years. We shouldn't order a big batch of f-35 since their programming doesn't allow Turkey to take action against certain countries (Israel, Greece, EU countries etc). In the end you never know what the future will bring us, hence a nationally developed fighter with national programming is optimal in any circumstances. We may spend a ton of money into this project, but we will gain much more...

Edit: a single f-35 costs $200M if we order 100 that means a total amount of $20B. And these birds come with US programming, this means they can switch off the control whenever they wish and void its functions. Today we are in alliance with the West, but tomorrow we may not (considering the developments with Israel and Greece).

 

[Hasbara Buster]

^I couldn't agree more.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

We may be considered part of the "development team" for the f35 but how realistic is that, comon? We contributed only a tiny amount of money on its initial phase. The total cost of the programming is about $50B and Turkey's contribution into this poos is $200M. If i was USA in this project and contributed 95% of the project i would not in a 100 year share the technology with countries whose contribution was absolutely minimal.
1: we don't get to see the technological development, know/how
2: i don't even think the US shares the blueprint on the f-35

Result: we flow billions of money into a bird which we are only a "level 3 partner". And we don't even have fully control over the birds. Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) is integrated into the f35 in the US and we can't replace them with ASELSAN's new system which we implemented on the f16 recently.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

I have always been of the opinion that it's a complete waste of money. It merely shows the lack of vision and quality of our leadership (other parties aren't any better).

 

[Mosamania]

Arabia !!!

How ???

You will know soon enough.

 

[rcrmj]

its a good choice to be partner with SAAB, as it has decades of rich experiences in developing world standard fighter jets```whereas S.K has '0' but licensed production of F-16 from U.S and thats it..

 

[Korean]

Besides, As a partner of TF-X, The desicion (twin or single engine)

It's a single engine jet.

They stated that Korea wants Turkey in KFX program just for decreasing the cost of a fighter project which is designed, (geat percentage) developed mostly by Korean engineers in accordance with S. Korea requirements...

The way joint development works is that there will be things that will be developed at facilities with engineers from all three countries present, such as airframe and testing.

However, there are certain items that's already being developed outside of KFX project scope with Korean money, such as AESA radar, avionics, RAM, and EW that Koreans would not like to share and be installed on KFX as "black boxes". I think avionics source code could be shared, but not the RAM and EW.

In that case, Turkey have a choice of installing their own radar, EW, and RAM.

 

[Luffy 500]

I think its not a wise decision by turkey to buy F-35. There is no telling what will be the final price
of this bird as it keeps on increasing and are still on testing phase. Lots of technical problems are
yet to be solved in F-35. And its a US air craft, don't think the yankis will be allowing it to be used against Israelis. Japan is hesitant to buy this air craft and only ordered 42 and there are chances
that it may get canceled but turkey has ordered more than 100 is to me seems naive.